Talk:Glossary of British terms not widely used in the United States/Archive 2

The British to-do list
...there are many British words that do deserve a place on the list... you put them in with a brief explaination (as a synonym---if the synonym is also British this will be detected and dealt with appropriately ;) and I'll add, if necessary, the American equivalent (if any).--JackLumber 12:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


 * mains water the water supply provided as a local utility through pipes
 *  anorak  (added to D.M. list per talk thereof. JackLumber, 12:40, 26 May 2006 (UTC))
 *  Industrial action, jumble sale  (TrevorD 10:32, 18 May 2006 (UTC))
 *  mercer  [I know no more than Chambers: 'dealer in textiles or small wares' - is that your understanding? -- TrevorD 10:32, 18 May 2006 (UTC)] Yes. To me, Mercer is primarily the guy who wrote the lyrics to "Autumn Leaves" and "Satin Doll." -- JackLumber, 12:10, 18 May 2006 (UTC) Done -- TrevorD 18:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
 *  laneway  [Never heard of it - Chambers has this as another word for lane - is that your understanding? -- TrevorD 10:32, 18 May 2006 UTC)] Yes. JackLumber, I propose NOT to add this. It appears to be an English word not widely used in the UK.  In the first 70 Google entries, there are very few UK entries (and those are place names), lots of Aus. entries, a few Can., and even a few US (Harvard) -- TrevorD 17:55, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
 * That works for me. When I first met that word, I was impressed by the -way suffix---compare orig. U.S. driveway and orig. U.K. drive. -- JackLumber, 20:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


 * outgoings, outworker, takings (of money), nosey parker, plimsoll, cheerio, drystone,
 *  newsagent  (TrevorD 10:32, 18 May 2006 (UTC))
 * orientated
 *  compulsory purchase  (TrevorD 15:00, 17 May 2006 (UTC))
 *  register office  (TrevorD 09:27, 18 May 2006 (UTC)).

Are the following British only? Indicate yes or no and I'll add the appropriate ones as above. -- TrevorD 10:32, 18 May 2006 (UTC):


 * sheltered housing - see below JackLumber
 *  haberdasher(y)  - already on D.M. list. JackLumber ,

Fanny
Shouldn't this be on the differences list only as it is a word used on both sides of the Pond but with very different meanings ? The Fat Contrator 13:34, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Deleting Agony Aunt
I'm deleting Agony Aunt. I just don't feel that it's an English word, or vocabulary at all. You could list 1001 British phrases like 'Agony Aunt' which Americans wouldn't recognise. Feel free to revert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.36.199 (talk • contribs)
 * Did you delete because it isn't used in BrEng, or because it is also used in AmEng? It certainly is a well-known BrEng phrase. If it's frequent in AmEng too, then fine, let's delete. Snalwibma 19:57, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Mail / Post
I've just added: Are: (commonly) used in the US (or is it always "mailbox", "mailman")? Should they be added to either list? TrevorD 10:44, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * "pillar box" and "pillar-box red" to this list of British words; and
 * "mailbox" to the list of different US & UK meanings.
 * letter box
 * post box
 * postman
 * Letter box is the "Britishest" of the 3. But I guess it's pretty safe to add them, as they help characterize English as spoken in Britain. And btw, the term "mail carrier" or "letter carrier" are now preferred (you know, non-sexist language...)--JackLumber 19:34, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Come now - no-one uses that. It's postman and postwoman universally. --Cel es tianpower háblame 21:03, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Celestianpower, are you talking about UK or US? No-one in the UK would say "mail carrier", but would anyone in the US say " post man" or " post woman"? TrevorD 22:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought it was clear I was talking about American usage. "Postman" is used sometimes in the U.S., but it has much more currency outside of the U.S., as Celestianpower points out. (Assuming that "universally" means "outside America" to Celestianpower. Hey Cel, looks like we Yanks come from another, maybe parallel, universe to you ;-) --JackLumber 12:15, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes Jack. It was clear to me that you were talking about the US.  That's why I addressed my comment to Celestianpower: I read his comment "universally" to include America.  Anyway, as you'll have seen, I have added the listed terms.  TrevorD 12:28, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Sorry, since you mentioned that letter box being the "Britishest", I thought the whole post was about UK. And universally meant "in my experience in the UK". Anyway, from my experience (in the UK), we use postbox (for the big red box that people put letters in to send to other people), letter box (for where the postman puts letters for you - you know, in your front door) and postman/postwoman (the letter delivery people) exclusively here. Hope that helps! --Cel es tianpower háblame 12:30, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * No prob whatever! But letterbox could probably use an entry on the List of different meanings, as the motion picture-related meaning is current in both dialects.--JackLumber 13:06, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Cel - I (in the UK) use letter box to for both the big red thing and the slot in the front door. I did also check in Chambers Dictionary that both uses are legit. before adding them.
 * Jack - No problem with adding letter box to the list of different meanings (I'll do that later today, I hope.). I didn't add pillar box to that either, but distinguished it by using the description pillar box (mail).  Is the motion picture-related meaning of pillar box also current in both dialects?
 * TrevorD 14:29, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * On second thought, the filmmaking senses are kinda too specialized. We can just mention their existence (and their common currency) on the British page, but now I'm convinced they don't justify an entry on the "differences" page. So just leave it as it is, it'll do fine. And btw, we also can have slots for mail in front doors (as distinguished from the mailbox near the house). They're called, duh, mail slots...--JackLumber 14:44, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you really, Trevor? I certainly wouldn't, as would nobody else I know. Hmmm - perhaps a regional thing - I live in Gloucestershire in the West Country. PS, don't archive bits of a discussion that is continuing (for future reference) --Cel es tianpower háblame 14:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I would tend to use "post box" usually, but calling the big red thing a "letter box" wouldn't be unknown, and I did confirm it in Chambers(!). (I was brought up in, and now after 35+ years have moved back to, West Sussex, via Birmingham, N.London, Surrey & Jersey).
 * Are you happy with the change I've now made?
 * P.S. I agree with your PS!
 * TrevorD 23:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks fine to me, now. --Cel es tianpower háblame 09:56, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Stockist
I'm from the UK and I've never heard the term, "stockist". Where did you hear it, Jack? --Cel es tianpower háblame 19:22, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I immediately recognised the term and thought nothing of it except "I didn't know that Americans don't use that term." (Jack, aren't you going to add the US equivalent to "stockist" and "greengrocer"?). I've checked it's in Chambers: "a person who keeps a cpmmodity in stock". Google (UK) "stockist" and most of the first half-dozen entries are UK sites, e.g. www.dulux.co.uk "To find your nearest Dulux stockist ...", and several similar entries. TrevorD 22:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Here I am---sorry for being tardy! Cel: My first encounter with stockist: an old European-made toy I bought at an estate sale. The box had "contact your local stockist" written on it. I later found out that this word was coined in 1920's England---a decade when BrE and AmE were still far apart, although not as far apart as before WWI. Tdw: I didn't add the American equivalents because... there are no American equivalents. For "greengrocer," I can only think of periphrases; a "stockist" essentially is (as I already wrote) a retailer. Trivia: the word "greengrocer" is found in the May 24, 1960 issue of the New York Times. You'd probably say, "So what?" It's interesting, because it coincides with the very first recorded use of the word "arugula" in American English: "Ask Italian greengrocers for arugula, rucola or ruccoli; ask other markets for rouquette, rocket salad or, simply, rocket." --JackLumber 12:06, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Jack - that's interesting. Are you going to include a trivia section?!
 * You'll see I've apmplified both "greengrocer" & "stockist". In BrE, "retailer" & "stockist" are not interchangeable.  You could refer to an "electrical retailer", a person or shop that sells electrical goods, but not to an "electrical stockist"; the electrical retailer might be a "Bosch stockist", i.e. he keeps Bosch electrical goods in stock.  But if he sells Bosch goods only on special order - and does not keep them in stock - then he's not "Bosch stockist" even tho' he may be a "Bosch retailer".  (Forgive me if you knew all that already!)


 * Thanks Trevor, I didn't know the exact distinction, but I kind of imagined it. And... the trivia section is the talk page, at least for now. The "List of different meanings" talk & archives teem with anecdotes and etymology notes... --JackLumber 14:20, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Plaster
Jack, your amendment to "plaster" in the different meanings list, reminded me that I'd seen a similar entry in this list "[sticking/sticky] plaster, Elastoplast". I propose to move that from this list and incorporate it in the different meanings list. Any thoughts? TrevorD 14:29, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. It means "stuff one puts on walls" in USA doesn't it? So therefore, this is the wrong place for it. --Cel es tianpower háblame 15:17, 2 May 2006 (UTC) O.K. Case closed. Jack

chippie
I see "chippie" is in this list for a fish & chip shop. It's also used for "carpenter" - is it used for that in the US? TrevorD 23:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No for both. But this word (also spelled chippy) should definitely be in the Different Meaning list---in America, it can mean either "an unpleasant woman, a slut" (somewhat old-fashioned slang) or, colloquially, this cute little critter. --JackLumber 12:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Deleted "chippie" from this list, & revised "chip shop". "Chippy" was already in the Different Meaning list, but I've amplified the entry. TrevorD 18:40, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I've also added "critter" to the American Words list ... TrevorD 18:40, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

boiler
"central heating boiler" is in this list; it's often referred to just as a "boiler" and ought to be listed under that also - but is it used in the US in any sense? TrevorD 23:12, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Being a railfan, the word boiler reminds me first and foremost of steam locomotives... That aside, the very phrase central heating boiler is not very idiomatic in the U.S., but central heating is; as for boiler, the word sure is not unknown, but furnace tends to be more used ("We have to call the furnace guy again---the heat don't work"); and a "furnace" can be powered by natural gas, or coal, oil, etc. I would leave the entry as it currently is, or possibly add a note like "UK often & US sometimes: boiler."--JackLumber 12:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Now ... I'm not sure whether we (in the UK) would call it a "boiler" in a steam locomotive?
 * The Rail terminology page has no regional tags for "boiler."
 * ( It's certainly used in the locomotive sense - see these examples on UK websites http://www.drcm.org.uk/content/collections/locomotion.htm or http://www.haworth-village.org.uk/steam-trains/locomotive_works/steam-boiler.asp Adrian Robson 10:47, 5 May 2006 (UTC) )

Looking in the dictionary, I'm reminded that "boiler" also means "an old fowl (e.g. chicken), best cooked by boiling". Do you have that meaning in the US? TrevorD 18:49, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Never heard of this! I could be mistaken, though.
 * Probably just out-dated. We rarely have the opportunity to buy different kinds of chickens anymore. (I remember seeing a clip of Julia Roberts explaining all the different kinds of chickens but I wouldn't know where to get any of them). Rmhermen 03:10, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

What is "central air"? Is that the same as "central heating" or "air conditioning"? TrevorD 18:49, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * "Central air" is short for Central air conditioning system. But Heating + Ventilation + Air Conditioning = HVAC. JackLumber 21:37, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

"Boiler" added to different meanings list. "Central air" & "HVAC" added to American words list. TrevorD 20:10, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Page move
Marco79 - If you MUST move/rename this page and it's sister page, will you PLEASE fix ALL the links. There are still numerous links to both the old pages and your page move has created some DOUBLE REDIRECTS. Please refer to the Wikipedia Manual, which says: How to rename a page: ... 4. Check for redirects. * Double-redirects will fail to link, and must be renamed to redirect to the current page name. PLEASE either fix ALL the links or move the pages back to their original names.

You should also be aware that recently these pages have been renamed one way or another about twice a week, so you may appreciate that another unnecessary rename is not appreciated. TrevorD 16:32, 4 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. I think I got them all. Apologies if I've caused some inconvinient problems. Marco79 23:54, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. (I found a few more but have now fixed them.) TrevorD 10:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Yokel Vs. Hillbilly
In the first article, this phrase Like the Hillbilly stereotype of the United States Yokels are considered to have low IQ. would seem to indicate that the Yokel term is primarily found in Commonwealth Englsh. Whereas the latter is almost certainly an Americanism (general). Have fun! Thanks Fra nkB 04:46, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * While I have read or heard the occasional reference to 'Yokel' in the U.S., I can't say whether I was reading a British author. So the question is whether these articles, need some edits that lay bare the national roots of there terms beyond 'Scotts-Irish' immigrants to the U.S.
 * I also have a little trouble imagining one of my British friends using the term 'Hillbilly'. :-)


 * Hillbilly is never used here, and the only time I ever heard the word Yokel in UK speech is in a Two Ronnies sketch. I suspect it's not a term used regularly in speech, but both would be understood by the majority of UK speakers. -- Boothman 19:58, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Boothman on "Hillbilly" being not used, but nevertheless understood, in the UK. I've heard "yokel" a number of times, usually in the expression "country yokel".  It's probably old-fashioned and it's certainly not an everyday expression, but again, I agree it would usually be understood.  --  TrevorD 22:28, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, that would be my assessment. --Cel es tianpower háblame 22:40, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * "Hillbilly" is an Americanism (we also have Hillbilly music...), and is definitely recent (1900) if compared to more-or-less synonyms like yokel, bumpkin, boor, hick, or backwoodsman. Hick and hillbilly are probably the most common in the U.S., although the meaning is not exactly the same. (Hillbilly shows 17 times in the British National Corpus, and Yokel... 18---the former is an Americanism, and the latter just ol'-fashioned.) Periphrases are easily formed---there are many, many words describing a rural, unsophisticated area: boondocks, boonies, backwoods, backwater, jerkwater town, bum-fuck Egypt, bum-fuck Virginia, bum-fuck West Virginia, bum-fuck Tennessee... JackLumber 23:10, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry to add this at this late time, but "Yokel" seems to be used far more often in Canada than in either the UK or the US these days, especially in phrases like "the local yokels", "the yokel express" (what Americans might call the "milk run" bus that stops at every small town), and the like. It's an everyday expression. I'm not sure if it belongs on a US-UK English list since many Americans and Britons don't even recognize the word. -- Charlene 00:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Not quite chaps. Without being rude I would say that a Briton who does not recognise 'yokel' has a poor vocab. It is very well known in the UK as meaning a country bumkin or countryman, usually from the labouring classes.  As to the US, is it not used in 'The Simpsons' to describle Cletus as in 'Cletus the Slack-Jawed Yokel'? The Fat Contrator 12:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Xerox&trade;
Does AmE use Xerox as a verb meaning to photocopy, or as an adjective a Xerox copy? Or use photostat to mean photocopy? -- TrevorD 23:16, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Xerox as a verb (to xerox) and a noun (a xerox) more rarely. I haven't heard photostat at all. Rmhermen 03:05, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Photostat was a common American term prior to the widespread introduction of the Xerox in the seventies. Similar obsolete terms are Mimeograph and Ditto. GCW50

Just noticed that the Xerox article states: "The success of the Xerox brand has led to the terms 'a xerox', 'xerox it', 'to xerox', 'xeroxed', and 'xeroxing' being used synonymously for the product/act of photocopying in North American English." which suggests it's not mainly UK usage and therefore inappropriate for inclusion. And the first few Google references to photostat are all American as well (mainly dictionaries), so also not appropriate for inclusion. Answered my own question! -- TrevorD 10:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Indeed! Hermen---I'm very surprised by this! Technically, both Xerox and Photostat are Americanisms and both are trademarks, although the latter is genericized. It's well known that the Xerox Corporation never liked the use of its name as a regular word, although it still is used as such, and apparently a good deal more in the U.S. than in Britain, according also to cursory internet searches---I allow that this usage might be on the decrease, though. Photostat was originally a proprietary term for a particular type of copier, and seems to have a more uniform distribution if compared to Xerox. --JackLumber 12:07, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I quite agree that AmE often uses "xerox", but I don't think I have ever heard anyone use "photostat". Perhaps it is an outdated term. It appears that technically it refers to a different and much less commonly used procedure than the xeroxing so maybe that helps account for it rarity. For instance, photostat on Wikipedia redirects to photocopying with an extensive discussion of xerox but not a mention of photostat in the text. Rmhermen 14:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, outdated in the sense that ...until the 1960s, the easiest and most reliable way to get an accurate copy of an original was by using a Photostat camera. It is the size of an office copier, had to be used in a darkroom, and produced only black-and-white reproductions. The Photostat camera functions like a 35mm camera, but produces two images: one positive, one negative. One of the 10,000+ results for site:gov photostat. Google site:gov.uk photostat and you'll find 200-odd. I know I'm old-fashioned, I even say "point up the difference" and "that's where it's at"... --JackLumber 21:05, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Sheltered housing
Do Americans use this term? -- TrevorD 23:26, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * (speaking of shelters...) Not really. If I figured it out right, it looks like what I would consider a type of "public housing" or "supportive housing" for the elderly, or maybe "assisted living." But the adjective "sheltered" often means, in the U.S., protected from taxes (as in "tax sheltered account"). I know however of "sheltered workshops" for people with disabilities.  JackLumber, 12:04, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents
I've added ToCs at each letter heading as an experiment to improve navigation. If this is generally thought to be useful, I'll add similar ones to the related articels. Please comment. -- TrevorD 12:03, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Newsboy/girl
Shouldn't this be "paperboy", ie someone who has a paper round. Never heard of newsboy myself, but it might be a regional thing. -- -- Boothman   Talk. 18:15, 18 May 2006 (UTC).
 * Sorry Booth (and Trevor), it was my mistake; see article history. But I'm glad to see that it was not for naught---paper round . In AmE, that would be paper route . Another difference detected! -- JackLumber, 20:13, 18 May 2006 (UTC) And btw, in AmE (I don't know if in BrE too) a newsboy can also be called a "carrier."
 * No to carrier.
 * Added to British list: paperboy/girl, paper round
 * Added to American list: newsdealer, newsboy/girl, paper route
 * TrevorD 23:30, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Removed paperboy which is used in the U.S. Rmhermen 23:33, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well... yesterday we kinda create a massive joint Anglo-American screw-up on this one... just to capsule the whole schmeer, all the newspaper delivery guy names are used everywhere. At least, the mix-up was *not* caused by differences in language---and that's good enough for me. -- JackLumber, 12:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Poof
Due to pronunciation differences, I believe this is spelled P-U-F-F in northern England. Could someone with access to the OED please check if it is included. (If it isn't, it should be. To a Northerner "poof" reads like it rhymes with "tooth".)--Adzz 13:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Doesn't that also depend on how Northerners pronounce "tooth"?! I would pronounce "puff" to rhyme with "tough" but not with "poof".  I wouldn't pronounce "poof" to rhyme with the way I pronounce "tooth" (and I can't think of a word it does rhyme with), but I think the way I pronounce "poof" would rhyme with the way I think a Northerner pronounces "tooth".
 * This is confusing! Basically, a Northerner pronounces OO like the Ü in über, and U like the Southern OO.--Adzz 13:44, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Regional accents in the UK behave in pretty much the same way as they do anywhere else. They can vary between regions and within cities.  To say a 'Northerer' proncounces 'oo' as a long 'o' is incorrect.  Some Northerners may pronounce 'book' as 'buck' whilst others pronounce it with a long 'o'.  Either way a homosexual would be a 'puff' (to rhyme with 'tough') up North whilst down South it would be 'poof' (long 'o').  Up North a 'poof' (long 'o') is a drum shaped soft furnishing used as a foot stool whereas down South it is both a footstool and a homosexual.  Go figure! The Fat Contrator 13:02, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

OALD does not give "puff" a meaning equated to "poof". -- TrevorD 13:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The OED records poof, poove, pooff, and pouf, but suggests that other spellings have been used. Two pronunciations are recorded---with a short and a long u, for both OED and Webster's 3rd. -- JackLumber, 13:36, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Puff and poof are both used in the north of England and elsewhere. They are treated as separate words that are synonyms (as is "poofter").  Pr oh ib it O ni o n s   (T) 14:48, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You're plumb right, Pro. OED, puff, sense 8d.  A different word, not a variant spelling.  JackLumber.  14:51, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Crumpet
? i know its not that widely used anymore but it seems more british than american
 * Done. --Adzz 01:18, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Cat's eye
As it happens, I'd never encountered the term "Raised Pavement Marker" until I read this article and its complement, "List of American words not widely used in the UK." I have heard (and use personally) "Cat's eye" exclusively. This could very well be regional, as I live in the New York area, where certain other linguistic forms often ascribed to British usage do tend to prevail. For example, I grew up hearing "floor" used to refer to either an indoor or outdoor surface, but in most parts of the US, "ground" is used almost exclusively when describing an outdoor surface; floor is reserved for indoors. I'm sure "Raised pavement marker" probably exists in the US as a technical term or perhaps part of a trend towards literally descriptive, rather than evocative, language (the Xerox discussion above comes to mind, as I have always used "Xerox" or, less frequently "copy," but "photocopy" has become surprisingly common in my recent observation...this could, again be regional, as I never heard "photocopy" so much as after enrolling at New York University and encountering students from other parts of the country on a regular basis). At any rate, I'm not convinced that "Cat's eye" is a specifically British term. Can anyone clarify?--Mjj237 16:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Gig?
How about that Medico80 11:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

How about?:
rubber johnny

cuppa

knacker [ weak ] versus knocker

plonk

skew whiff, skew-whiff,

skewed, uneven, not straight,

need two redirects?

{Anything else on:

life on Mars %28TV_series%29, other bbc shows.}

I feel that these should have improved disambiguation, & improved redirects.

Thank You. Hopiakuta 11:15, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

RE: deletion of term "Non-invasionist policy". UK does use this term, US does not. US has "Non-interventionist policy" in lexicon, but usually employ this as perjorative term.

Re: 'POV' status of this term, check build-ups to wars in Afghanistan (US funded, armed and trained Al-Qu'eda to fight against Russians during cold war); Iraq (Huge majority of world believed continued negotiation and allowing UN weapons inspectors to complete work to be best option, AND that the WMD which allegedly provided a basis for the attacks did not provide a "clear and present threat" to anyone - much less to the UK and US); Vietnam; Korea; Japan, etc etc etc. Then cross-reference this with the OTHER countries' of the world's responses and actions to these situations. Add this to situations which parallelled events in countries which the US invaded, but which the US decided to ignore (ie, East Timor, old soviet block countries, Sudan, Sierra Leone, Israel, Egypt, Cuba, South Africa, Nepal, Saudi Arabia - country of origin of the Bin Laden's and the majority of the 9/11 attackers, Cambodia, the Philippines, China etc) - notice how many are either "worthless" economically to the US or 'allies' who receive billions of dollars in aid from the US?

In the UK, despite IRA and UDA claiming more innocent lives through "terrorism" each decade than all the allied troops killed in Iraq AND Afghanistan added together, US did NOTHING to help for over 20 years, and finally decided that the only resolution to the situation was to free all the murderers UK forces HAD caught, then allow them a place in the political process!! This at the same time as beginning two wars on the back of being hit ONCE by terrorists who did not come from either of the countries invaded! All this time, the UK, Ireland and all the parties involved continued the process of negotiation WITHOUT large-scale military intervention. Tens of Thousands were killed in bomb blasts all over UK, and continue to be (7/7 attacks, recent foiled plane attacks etc) and yet UK citizens are resolutely stating that war is not the answer. That is a non-invasionist policy: if UK or most other civilised countries do move into a country (ie chechnya) they try to propagate peace, not war. The fact that UK troops still serve alongside US ones remains a source of major problems for Tony Blair and his government - who are resigning in droves because he refuses to stand down as PM. I could provide reams of evidence to support the fact that US does have an invasionist policy, and clearly, since the term IS used in UK but not US, it fits criteria for addition to this wiki. Political views aside, the term thus should be included without fear of removal by small-minded, ill-informed (US press one of the least "free" in the world) and biased suppositions as to possible connotations/denotations of a phrase. I hope this helps, please feel free to ask me for further referencing of any of the above points if necessary. Thanks. 82.19.97.121 02:35, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

This politicised tract demonstrates exactly why the phrase is POV. As to how well-informed I am, I'm a UK resident and citizen (as my user page shows). I removed the phrase as being unsourced. If you can show evidence that the phrase you specify is used in the way you describe, then it might be worth considering putting it back. I've certainly never heard the expression myself. And although the US press is startlingly biased, it's not 'one of the least free in the world'. The Reporters without Borders index of press freedom is probably somewhere on Wikipedia if you want to check it and find out how much worse things could be than they are either in the US or UK. AlexTiefling 09:49, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

As a Doctor of Journalism (ie I have a degree, Masters degree and a Doctorate relating to news media) I feel qualified to repeat that US press is one of the least free in the world. There are five owners of major media productions in the US, producing over 90% of the journalistic content for the entire country. The US equivalent of the UK D-notice is used to prevent governmental information being printed seemingly at will. There is no official policy regarding requirements for D-notices, meaning almost any issue can be kept out of the public eye indefinitely without recourse to action. Any news content not supporting aims of the owners of the publications/ news companies can be and is often deleted and the journalist responsible sacked. I worked in Ohio for 9 months in 2003, as a news editor at a TV station, and resigned on principle about this underhand censorship, after a story regarding an offshore investment by Rupert Murdoch was pulled and 3 members of staff dismissed by the "powers that be". The previous news station I had worked for was based in Cairo, Egypt (a Muslim country) and contrary to common beliefs and expectations the state- and publisher-led "censorship" was restricted to a few small areas - usually defence etc - in much the same way the UK press operates. As I mentioned above, I can provide documentary evidence for any- and every-thing I have written.

You call my comments 'politicised'. I would like to ask you to re-visit what I had written, and tell me where I have shown allegience to any political party or ideal? I have merely illustrated my point using FACT. It could be said that your refusal to accept the facts of the matter constitutes political bias: there are bundles of sources available to show that exactly the same abuses and outrages were occurring in countries the US did NOT invade, often taking place concurrently with US action in territory invaded for similar reasons. There can be no denying this.

As a former political editor for a international news agency in the UK, I have had to produce balanced articles regarding all sides of every political debate, aimed at all sorts of audiences. Facts can not be over-ruled, ignored or hushed up during this process; if they are the whole "fourth estate" provision of the role of a journalist becomes a sham.

I would suggest again, my friend (of course, this remains merely an expression of the political freedom we enjoy in our countries, is in no way intended to be a personal attack and represents only an explanation for my offerings and a means of furthering the work of Wikipedia) that you revisit my explanation above, listing examples of politicised or untrue assertions I have made. Please also inform me exactly which of my comments you want references for, and I will be happy to oblige. Please stick to relevant requests only - I will, for example, prove usage of the term in the UK upon request, but my comments relating to the freedom of the US press are, for the purposes of the entry onto the main page, irrelevant, so I will not bother to justify this. (No mention is made of US press freedom in the actual entry.)

Please attempt to remain impartial, to research for yourself the similarities and differences in world/US reactions, and to remove your own political prejudices before doing even that - as I said above, the term should fulfil all requirements of the entry. Thanks. 82.19.97.121 23:03, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

AlexTiefling 09:39, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not really interested in debating politics with you. I'm trying to explain that beliefs about the freedom of the press, or about the correctness of US or UK foreign policy, are not germane to the inclusion of your term in the list. I searched Google for 'non-invasionist'. There were a mere 693 hits, and the first ten (at least) of those were all about theories of migration in the first and second millennia BC. I can find no evidence whatever of the application of the word to foreign policy. I don't need to do as you suggest and research differing world reactions to policy decisions. This is an article about the established use of language, and there is no evidence that you have produced an example of this. The fact that I personally have not heard the phrase is, as you noted in your edit summary, not conclusive. The issue is that I can find no evidence that it's ever been publically used in this way at all. As a journalist, you should appreciate the importance of citing your sources and being able to verify your story.

Please search for the Wiki on Beaker culture. It states clearly the origins of the phrase, relating chiefly to the flow of ideas, technologies etc from one country to another without the recipient country actually having been invaded. The wiki includes no information on the use of the term to describe Indo-American migration in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD, nor any of the other 'common' historical periods for which the term is employed in political history. This is probably because the wiki relates chiefly to the Beaker culture and not their "non-invasionist policies".

Yes, the term WAS historically used primarily to denote the Beaker peoples. Language change has seen this word flourish in political circles, publications etc IN THE UK but not in the US, as is the criterion. It has never been my wish to debate politics with you, which for me has been the whole point of our discussion! You are seeing my addition as inherently political; it isn't.

Upon my return to work I shall seek out recent references to the term from Hansard, along with some political review material we have at the office. I trust that by then the stick will have been removed, the chip knocked off completely and the politicisation of innocuous items been stricken from your hidden agenda.

I feel must apologise for my above comment. It is rather personal, and none of this has been aimed at you personally, I assure you. I have left the comment in situ only to illustrate my frustration at your refusal to leave personal or party politics out of this debate, whether included consciously or unconsciously. I will defer to your decision until my return to work; at which time I shall provide the necessary qualifications for inclusion of the statement to the Wiki. Thanks. 82.19.97.121 05:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

AlexTiefling 07:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No offence taken. The political issues are sensitive, and in fact, I broadly agree with you about them. I'm only arguing that we need a few reliable sources for the phrase in order to justify its inclusion in a page which is essentially a usage guide. I look forward to seeing your results. Apologies for being slightly stiff and grumpy myself.

Berk
I just editted the entry for "berk" on the main page, since I was under the impression the phrase came from Berkeley Hunt, not the previously mentioned "Berkshire Hunt". Further googling has shown there to be doubt about the origins, citing both Berkeley and Berkshire. The rest of wikipedia, however, cites Berkeley as the source. I'll leave it as is, but ask the main contributors to think about whether to revert, leave as is, or cite both possible sources of the word. Carre 18:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Cite both, referencing the doubt. Cheers! WLD 18:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Done - Chambers cites only Berkeley, but the OED cites both, which is good enough for me :) Carre 09:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Balls-up
According to the article, "balls-up" comes from "an old horseman's term referring to when the hooves get packed with snow". I can't find any evidence for this other than Wikipedia and copies thereof, and I'm just slightly wondering if it might be dubious folk etymology, or even a hoax. I'm really not sure though, and it may well be just fine. Does anyone have any further info? Matt 13:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC).


 * It's a Victorian bowdlerization per Hugh Rawson's Devious Derivations, among other books. The Victorians loved to make up "clean" origins for words that had blindingly obvious "dirty" origins. -- Charlene 09:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Great, thanks for sorting that one out. Matt 14:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Grotty
According to the article:


 * grotty : disgusting, dirty, grotesque (as elaborated by George Harrison in "A Hard Days' Night")

Does anyone have any clue what the "Hard Days' Night" reference means? Matt 20:01, 26 October 2006 (UTC).


 * Bit of a late response... but at a guess, I'd say it was reference to the Beatles film of the same name! Surely you've heard of the Beatles?  Although I'm surprised it's such a recent addition to the language.  Carre 19:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I'm not asking who George Harrison was, or what "A Hard Day's Night" refers to. I'm asking what is the connection between the song or film (whichever is meant) and the BrE meaning of the word "grotty". What is the "elaboration" referred to? Matt 20:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC).


 * Yah, sorry - I was being unnecessarily flippant, and apologise. Check out this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5siPP7K4r8 - hopefully all will become clear.  It's not really an "elaboration", but does give a cultural reference;  Chambers also indicates that the word came into common parlance in the 60s, so the clip, film, and Beatles link is relevant.  Carre 18:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Right. I think that few people would be familiar enough with the film to understand the reference without further explanation, so I have added some. Please feel free to amend as you see fit. Matt 14:12, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Guff

 * guff : (informal) extraneous or useless things, ideas, or paperwork/documentation; also to break wind ("Have you guffed, Dr Watson?")

Does anyone understand the Dr Watson reference? The only Dr Watson I've heard of is Sherlock Holmes' sidekick. Is it just meant to be humorously incongruous? Matt 20:13, 26 October 2006 (UTC).

Totty

 * totty : (informal, offensive to some) sexually alluring woman or women (more recently, also applied to males). Originally a term for a prostitute in the late 1800s.

I have never heard this word used in the UK to refer to a woman, singular. It is always, in my experience, used to refer to women collectively. Can anyone definitely confirm the UK singular usage? Matt 14:01, 28 October 2006 (UTC).


 * Further to my comment above, http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/totty.html says that "totty" is a BrE spelling of AmE "tottie". If so, this is worth mentioning here. http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_561508866/tottie.html refers to the singular usage, but since this is an American dictionary it doesn't confirm the UK usage. Matt 14:04, 28 October 2006 (UTC).


 * Totty is not a word I tend to use myself, but it is certainly used in both singular and plural senses. For example, the word is occasionally used on the Chris Evans show on Radio 2 - Chris might ask one of the other contributors, "Do you consider to be 'totty'?"  On the same show they have discussed whether the word should also apply to men (they agreed it should).  However, there is no usage of the word as a noun (you'd never call someone 'a totty').  Finally, on occasions, when in a car with friends I have heard them say something like "Totty over there!", which would indicate that one or more attractive women have been sighted. EdJogg 23:55, 28 October 2006 (UTC) (from UK)


 * Maybe it's just a matter of opinion as to what constitutes a "singular" sense. To me, "Do you consider to be 'totty'?" is the collective sense. If it wasn't then it would be "Do you consider to be a 'totty'?". I also consider "Totty over there!" to again be the collective usage, even if only one person is being referred to – in the same way that you might say "Police over there!" even if there was only one police officer. Matt 13:03, 29 October 2006 (UTC).


 * At the risk of prolonging this unnecessarily, I think we've agreed that (like 'sheep' or 'police' ?) 'totty' can equally refer to just one woman or several women.
 * Whether that means the word is 'collective' rather than 'singular'/'plural', I could not say ... ...I'll leave that to those who understand the appropriate linguistic terminology :o) EdJogg 01:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Shag
Is "shag" ever used in the United States? Shag as in to have sex, to shag someone or to have a shag.


 * Some Americans vaguely know what it means because of Austin Powers, but otherwise it's never used. "Shag" in the US is a haircut or a type of carpet. They likely would not understand "have a shag". -- Charlene 09:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If it's a haircut or type of carpet (or waterfowl, tobacco or dance), then it's used in the US and doesn't belong on this list. AlexTiefling 09:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Agree, it should be on the list of words with different meanings instead. Ben W Bell   talk  12:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Bollard
These are widely used in the US, especially since 9/11/2001, and sold and installed using this term. The words should be dropped from the list. Edison 15:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Dead teacup
I've heard Britons refer to an empty teacup as being "dead" on numerous occasions, but I don't think Americans use (or even are aware) of this construction. Is this something that could be added? -- Charlene 00:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * "Dead", in terms of a drink/cup/glass is fairly common, especially concerning drinks and glasses in pubs. When bar staff come around collecting empties, they generally leave glasses with some drink left in them.  A common comment to said bar staff would be "that's dead", thereby informing the bar person that the non-empty glass can be removed too. Carre 19:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Added to the Different meanings page. Tevildo 03:10, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * in the US a "dead solider" is an empty beer bottle, so the analogy has crossed the pond. GCW50 13:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Duff
Is the word "duff", meaning bad/faulty/broken used in the US? Thought about it reading the list, and seeing "gen" in there (for intelligence), and remembering time with the RAF where it was common to use terms such as "duff gen" for false intelligence, and "no duff" to indicate that a report, for example, is accurate. Carre 20:18, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * ...or in the phrases "up the duff" (pregnant) or 'to duff someone up" (to punch), for that matter. Grutness...wha?  00:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * "Duff" is used, but it means something completely different and likely belongs on the other list. "Duff" means "rear end", and is an extremely mild term - a Sunday school teacher could use it in class without any surprise. -- Charlene 08:31, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Wanker (bet someone edits this header!)
I've noticed recently that our friends across the pond are using the word "wanker" - and in its British sense (that is, "person deserving of contempt"). If this carries on it'll have to come off the list. Bugger. Totnesmartin 04:00, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It was used a fair amount in my highschool, and I recall it being used on at least one American TV show. However, I'm not sure if it qualifies as "widely used". Koweja 04:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Perspex; Prat
I don't think either of these terms is widely used in the US, but I'd like other opinions: ISTR that the hard plastic "perspex" is called something completely different in the US, and I don't think prat (i.e., idiot, and as part of the verb phrase 'to prat about") is used other than as part of the word pratfall. Grutness...wha?  00:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Perspex is Plexiglas (see Acrylic glass). Prat is unfamiliar to me. Rmhermen 01:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Perspex is strictly British as in "The Spitfire had a Perspex windscreen". US would say Plexiglass.  BTW, in the US, an aircraft has a windscreen but an automobile has a windshield. GCW50 17:45, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm an American that has never even heard the word perspex before. Seems like it should be added. SirBob42 23:44, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Sellotape
Shouldn't cellotape be sellotape? Chambers seems to agree with me. Dpmarshall 17:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Pukka and regional slang
Firstly, "Pukka" definitely wasn't made famous by Jamie Oliver. The word gained national popularity in the early 1980s when Delboy used it frequently on Only Fools and Horses (more than 15 years before Jamie Oliver said it on TV). Pukka was commonly used in London before the 1980s, but it was Delboy that made it famous nationally. The famous Pukka Pies company have used that name since 1963 as well.

Secondly, this is a good list but the inclusion of regional/localized slang detracts from it. If a word is not even widely used in the UK then obviously it won't be widely used in the United States either. And the heading says "British words" which implies words that are used all over Britain.

As it stands much of the list could also come under a heading List of British words not widely used in the United Kingdom, which would be silly. 172.141.34.240 20:08, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more - the regional dialect inclusions are just silly, there are many words on this list I have never heard uttered in the UK, it seems people have just added quaint little phrases and names they have come across which are not really in common usage.62.136.102.162 23:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Just to point out - "pukka" was very common in the 80s. The 1880s. It's old Anglo-Indian slang and has been around since at least 1857. It died out after the war and Indian independence. Jamie Oliver and Delboy only brought it back. -- Charlene 06:48, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Not so rare in the US
These are common enough in the USA that they should be dropped: blotto, burgle, cashier (supermarket sense), cash mashine, cinema, one-off, postman/postwoman, spliff, tits up, turn indicator.

Also windscreen and windshield should be moved to whatever page trapezoid and trapezium are on. -- Randall Bart 09:35, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Callbox
I have never heard the term callbox in the UK and I have always called them payphones. Could it be a northern thing calling them payphones? Bilky asko 20:36, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm a southern softie through and through, and they've always been payphones to me. Angmering 18:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually I think it may be a rather archaic term from when they were first in place, rather like wireless which is now generically called a radio Crydwyn 19:13 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Normally phone box, or maybe telephone box or public telephone. And sometimes call box. Yes, definitely a valid British usage. Payphone sounds somewhat American to me, and it means simply a phone that you can pay to use, which may or may not be in a box (booth). A phone box or call box refers to the one in a box on a street corner - e.g. one of those archetypal British red things. Or am I just showing my age? Snalwibma 20:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Broody
The following entry has just been removed, with the edit summary "removed rubbish": broody: (informal) desiring to have children, typically a perjorative term used to describe single women 'of a certain age'. Is it "rubbish" because (a) it is in fact used to mean that in the USA as well as in the UK, or (b) because it's not used in the UK, or (c) because User:Franko2nd doesn't like the word? The only valid reason for removal would be (a). It is a valid BrEng usage, and (IMHO) worthy of inclusion unless it's also used with that meaning in AmEng. Snalwibma 23:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It may be better to put it in the List of Words that Mean Different Things article. Although it's not a commonly used term in the city, it's very well-known in the country in the US, and almost always is used in relation to chickens. -- Charlene 14:51, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Tortoise
IIRC, the word tortoise has only very limited use in the US, with both tortoises and turtles (and terrapins, for that matter) being called "turtles" in all but very rare circumstances. is this worth adding to the list? Grutness...wha?  22:50, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Buns
Recently added. Surely not! Is it really in reasonably widespread use in BrE? How far down the nonce-coinage/slang/dialect route should this article go? This looks like one to delete. Snalwibma 22:03, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Carriageway
There is an entry for carriageway on its own, seperate from dual-carriageway, which gives lane as the US equivalent. I have two concerns about this: 1. Is Carriageway really uncommon in the US? I am sure the Highway Capacity Manaual uses the term carriageway. 2. Even if Carriageway is not used in American English I don't think lane would be the equivalent. I am pretty sure lane refers to the same thing in both the US and the UK. Could an american possibly offer their opinionSkorponokX 22:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well carriageway and lane are not the same thing anyway. A carriageway is a distinct section of road that carries traffic. Most roads are single carriageway, but they actually have two lanes of traffic one in each direction. A dual carriageway doesn't mean two lanes, it means two completely separate sections of road with a physical separation between them such as a stretch of grass or a barrier. Dual carriageways can have multiple lanes in each direction, I've seen up to seven, or as little as one in each direction. It's a common misconception that it refers to the number of lanes. Ben W Bell   talk  07:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I am aware of the meaning of the various terms. The article seems to imply that Americans don't use the word carriageway but instead use the term lane to describe the same thing. I was questioning wheter this was in fact the case as I was under the impression it was not.SkorponokX 13:00, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The only use of the word carriageway in the US I know of is in Acadia National Park, but there it's a path reserved just for horse drawn carriages. GCW50 17:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

"Spelt" does not belong here
I have again deleted this. It is not a different word, just a spelling difference relating to a single part of a word in common, and in fact a reflection of a much wider difference between AmE and BrE. If we list spelt, we should also list leapt, smelt, dived, not to mention neighbour... The spelt/spelled difference is covered in American_and_British_English_differences, here. As for whether whilst should be included - a stronger case than spelt, maybe, but I'm also a bit doubtful! Snalwibma 12:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Hole-in-the-Wall
Deleting this because it is used in American English, albet with a different meaning. Already apperas on List of words having different meanings in British and American English. SirBob42 22:50, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Pukka and POSH
Both of these definitions were incorrect. My main references for both are a) Hugh Rawson's book Devious Derivations, and b) William Safire's Take My Word For It. The POSH definition is a very well-known urban legend per the above books and this snopes.com article. "Pukka" dates to about 100 years before Jamie Oliver was born according to Rawson. Oliver popularized it in this century, but he sure didn't invent or import it - it's an old Imperial term. -- Charlene 03:09, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Bob's your uncle
So he is, to be sure, but does he belong in this list? It's a list of words, not phrases, and I think Bob should probably be shown the door. If we allow in idiomatic phrases like this there'll be no end to it. Yes, I realise bubble and squeak is already there - which is why I'm posting this as a comment rather than just summarily deleting old Bob. Snalwibma 16:00, 21 May 2007 (UTC)