Talk:Glossary of British terms not widely used in the United States/Archive 3

Fake entries
Lived here for 21 years and have never heard the following

carrier rocket char, cha Char charlady char-wallah choong cleg coolybox dekko kecks loopty-swoops nesh Nissen hut nobble nutty gum twopenn'orth, tuppenn'orth, tup'en'oth twee

They should be deleted — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nipponcarisbestcar (talk • contribs) 12:57, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * coolybox, loopty-swoops, nutty gum - are fake, I have removed them.
 * char-wallah, Nissen hut, twopenn'orth, tuppenn'orth, tup'en'oth - are old sayings, maybe you have the pleasure of being too young to have encountered them.
 * carrier rocket, choong, cleg - I haven't personally come across either, but I believe they are genuine.
 * the others you list are genuine and still very much in use. &sup;&deg;Hot Crocodile ...... + 17:12, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Jiggery-pokery
I had British professor sub for one of my classes for a few days and he used the term "jiggery-pokery" when talking about rearranging an equation. I'm not sure how to describe what the phrase itself would mean though. --141.209.225.91 20:06, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

It means expertly tinkering or playing about with, in a way the casual observer cannot understand 81.157.125.245 15:58, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I use that here in Canada. Varlaam (talk) 20:27, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Curry
curry '
 * "currency, specifically small change in coins. " - is this made up? It's a new one on me. Jooler 12:26, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't say that I've ever heard the expression myself, and I can't find any examples of it being used on-line. I've remmed it out for now. Tevildo 09:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd move to total deletion rather than just commenting out. Snalwibma 11:55, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Archive
Someone has archived the talk page, however the links to archives seem to have become broken. I don't have enough experience to figure out what is wrong and fix it, could some else have a look. SkorponokX 12:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Ha'penny - also has been used as a double entendre in bawdy songs etc to refer obliquely to virginity, or modesty, whilst appearing to simply be a warning to be careful.

e.g. (Alex Glasgow song, certainly pre-1970s)

When Molly began to go courting, Her mother was anxious to tell He certain young fellas would want her To stray down the pathway to 'ell So Molly's old ma used to say:

Keep your 'and on your 'appenny, Cover it well with your palm Keep your 'and on your 'appenny, And Molly will come to no harm.

They'll hug you and kiss you so sweetly They make you feel ever so nice But 'andle the fellas discreetly And follow this simple advice:

Keep your 'and ...

When Molly and I went out courting, I told her she'd nothing to fear But down in the covers last Sunday I whispered these words in her ear:

Take your 'and off your 'appenny Look into my bonny blue eyes Take your 'and off your 'appenny And I'll give you - a lovely surprise!


 * I would classify this as very rare usage, and, as such, not something to be recorded here. '' d b f i r s  20:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The ha'penny refers to the female genetalia. 78.146.183.68 (talk) 10:23, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Shandy
Shandy is defined here as beer or lager mixed in equal parts with lemonade. This will undoubtedly confuse Americans, since what Brits call "lemonade", we call "lemon-lime soda" or "Sprite." In America, "lemonade" is fresh lemon juice mixed with a bit of water and a lot of sugar (at least if it's homemade, and not that powdered crap). That should be noted under shandy, and also could be added to the list as a very confusing example of the differences between the two dialects.72.78.161.113 21:32, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Until quite recently shandy was beer and real lemonade - it's only with the prevalence of 7-Up and Sprite that "lemonade" has come to mean "a fizzy lemon-lime beverage out of a can". It's anecdotal, so take it with a pinch of salt, but I worked in a pub in Wiltshire in the early 1990s and the regulars would have shot me if I'd served them a shandy that was anything other than (a) bitter (not lager!) and (b) real lemonade (not Sprite!) Needless to say it was hugely confusing when tourists came in and asked for a shandy... This flag once was red  06:05, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Poof
Added the soft furnishing meaning The Fat Contractor 15:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Dialect Words
Is this the right place for dialect words such as 'beck' or 'cach' if they are not widely used? Otherwise there are words like gennel/ginnel, larrap etc that need adding. Where does one stop? The Fat Contractor 15:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Er, no - one stops, I think. Snalwibma 15:51, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. I would interpret the title of this page to mean "List of words widely used in Britain that are not widely used in the United States". There are already several words used only in Scotland on this list that should probably be removed. —Angr 16:15, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Which was my point I think. The difficulty though is selecting the words which are purely dialect and those which have leached into standard/common UK English. There are also words such as 'bankman' and 'tab' which which appear to be terms derived from slang from an occupation. 'Tab' in Geordie means 'cigarette' just to add to the confusion. These should also be removed if they are not in common usage.  How is common usage defined BTW - in the Shorter OED?  We might end up with a very short list in that case. The Fat Contractor 10:21, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * There's no catch-all solution to this issue, unless, as is flagged at the top of the article, it uses reliable references and cites verifiable sources! Until that point it is open to interpretation. The best way to do this is surely to interpret dialect as "not widely used". Once a dialect word does become mainstream (as happened with minging, apparently it originated in west Scotland but please don't quote me on that or get pedantic - it's just an example), then it could be considered a viable entry for this article. !! Ultimately though you need a lexicographer to vet and supervise this article !! Until then it'll remain flagged as not citing reliable references. Shame. It's a great page. fwiw. BuzzWoof 11:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I think "tab" is now has a wider than Geordie usage Streona (talk) 00:47, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism?
I don't feel that the word removed (I think by a bot) today [I don't want to write it in case this also gets removed] is necessarily vandalism. It is a perfectly valid and widely used (if vulgar) word and (to the best of my knowledge) not used in the US. Rachel Pearce (talk) 23:07, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You can revert the bot. Bots don't usually edit war, and if it does remove it again, you can ask the bot operator to make the bot leave it alone. It's probably best if you add a citation for it too, though, lest a human being think it's vandalism! :-) —Angr 05:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Ginger?
I thought "ginger" meant redhead...I'm not British, and Americans don't really say it, but if anyone could confirm that, they should add it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.8.148.156 (talk) 19:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The "gay" meaning is probably completely unknown in America. The "redhead" meaning is rare, but encountered, e.g. in the South Park episode "Ginger Kids". —Angr If you've written a quality article... 21:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

"Ginger beer" is rhyming slang for "queer"- i.e.gay. Streona (talk) 00:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

In scotland, ginger as to mean redhead is very widespread. It's very standard usage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.90.75 (talk) 15:15, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

In most of England, Ginger is used to mean redhead, however often in a derogatory way, to point out to the person that they are different. Billaar
 * No it's not derogatory, it's just redhead. Of course it point out a difference, as me and many other gingers will testify, out hair is a different colour. Hdruk (talk) 01:59, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Ginger should be removed. You can thank Southpark for making it very wide-spread in America, and therefore not qualified for this list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.3.65.68 (talk) 16:31, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Should be removed anyway. There's a different list for words with different meanings. Totnesmartin (talk) 21:11, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Bimble
I (an Englishman) have never heard of "bimble" although the definition is what I would give for "bumble". Is this a typo? Do Americans use "bumble"? --Interesdom (talk) 20:30, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The word is not in the OED, but it does occur in some nursery rhymes in the phrase "bimble, bamble, bumble". There are just a few hits in Google books, but I would classify the word as rare in UK usage.  '' d b f i r s  20:49, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I first heard it used in the Navy, meaning 'To dawdle from A to B with no urgency' i.e. 'Just bimbling along' would be to just chug along at a few knots, maybe to deliberately use-up time / avoid arriving too early for the next tide etc.ChrisRed (talk) 14:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Its widely used in the canoeing community to refer to an ambling relaxing gentle paddle with no urgency. The newsletter of Shrewsbury Canoe Club used to be called Bimble.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.130.130.100 (talk) 09:04, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

It is common in Scotland - I often take a bimble to the shops. 155.136.80.174 (talk) 14:32, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I've heard it in Devon too. Totnesmartin (talk) 07:03, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Rotters?
Whoever calls the police "the rotters"- Bertie Wooster ? Streona (talk) 00:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't know much about British slang, but I know about Bertie Wooster, and no, he doesn't. I've seen the word "rozzer" several times in other books, but I suspect it's now dated. The word "rotter" for a rotten person is never used in the US, but I doubt Americans would have any trouble understanding it.Pdronsard (talk) 23:36, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Is this mixed up with "rozzers" an old fashioned slang for the police? 155.136.80.174 (talk) 14:33, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Underground is in fact widely used in the United States.
Ever heard of an underground tunnel? Yep, that's what Americans call it. 82.148.70.2 (talk) 09:09, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I have never heard it used in the US to mean an subterranean railway network (the British meaning described here). Perhaps this word would be better in List of words having different meanings in British and American English. Actually, I've just looked, and it is indeed there, so perhpas it should be removed from here. Rachel Pearce (talk) 09:51, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, can definitely be deleted from here, as it appears at List of words having different meanings in British and American English. Done! Snalwibma (talk) 10:16, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Needs Refs?
This may sound silly, but does this article really need citations, anyway? It seems like the sort of article that doesn't really need references; maybe even borderline Common knowledge (if you're British). For example, just about everyone who knows the difference between UK and US vocabulary knows the term "Petrol" isn't commonly used in the US, at least not in everyday speech. Why bother citing it, then? Mizu onna sango15 / 水 女 珊瑚15  03:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree. To ask for citations will delay the entry of new words, and will potentially double the size of the page, without increasing its usefulness. Let's say that if somebody is familiar with the countries involved, he/she is capable of editing this page, OK ? Raymondwinn (talk) 15:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Could we adopt a common-sense approach to referencing? My proposal would be to include (say) two well-known American dctionaries and two similar British dictionaries in the "Further reading" or "References" section, add a note somewhere that all of the content of the article can be verified by one or more of these sources, and then add a specific reference only for the handful of words/usages that are not covered by those dictionaries. SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 13:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm for this. Perhaps we could also reference in addition (or perhaps just use in the external links section) a Brit urban slang dictionary; I fould a rather nice one from google some time ago. -- Mizu onna sango15 / 水 女 珊瑚15  16:32, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Macintosh?
Shouldn't this be listed under List of words having different meanings in American and British English (Because of Macintosh computers)? Mizu onna sango15 / 水 女 珊瑚15  23:03, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, although I am used to seeing Mackintosh for the coat and Macintosh for the Apple computers. (and of course "mac" for both is much more common these days). The McIntosh (disambiguation) page would be a useful starting point. (I think you would have to include the apples (fruit) and maybe also Charles Rennie Mackintosh since "a Mackintosh" could arguably mean either of those too. Rachel Pearce (talk) 01:10, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I think I'm just going to go ahead and remove it from the list and move it to List of words having different meanings in American and British English, if it's not already on there. Thanks, - Mizu onna sango15 / 水 女 珊瑚15  05:14, 9 March 2008 (UTC).

Slang?
Is this supposed to be a list of widely used British words? There are several terms in the list that I have never heard (I am English; born in Surrey but have lived in London for the past six years and would normally consider myself to have a reasonably wide vocabulary).

I think a number of these terms belong in a list of slang amongst particular social groups and not in a list of general British English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.186.228 (talk) 18:40, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

It's probably because you think that if it's not spoken in London, it doesn't exist you southern softie! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.243.220.22 (talk) 09:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Which slang words should be excluded? Snalwibma (talk) 10:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Agree with the point about it shouldnt include slang as it'll end up of unmanageable proportions. As someone from Yorkshire with an interest in English dialect in general some of the words given as being used in the north of England are defintely not eg haver, ken, nash (not nesh which is but i'll come to that in a bit). These are words which are according to the article used in Scotland so i can only presume they may be used a couple of miles south of the border too because theyre defintely not used in Yorks/Lancs.Finally summat and nesh arealso used in the West Country and Cornish Pasties are universal...how can someone think its only used in Cornwall and the North. But anywaythis type of stuff doesn't belong on an article aout American English so it backs up the original point about the omission of slang. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.254.173.34 (talk • contribs)

Paki in US
I had to look up "blue laws". Do you mean that package stores cannot be called "liquor stores" in the US or that they cannot be called "packy/paki" stores in the US? I am not sure that this sentence is relevant at all. Rachel Pearce (talk) 22:45, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * "Package stores" mainly sell beer and wine (The ones I've seen, you drive up, tell the clerk at the window what you want -- say, a case of Budweiser -- and they give it to you at the window.)
 * "Liquor stores" sell hard liquor (vodka, whisky, etc.) in addition to beer and wine. LizFL (talk) 14:44, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Whilst
Though I (being American and everything) use whilst more than I do while, at least four dictionaries that I know of have this word marked as 'Chiefly British', so I propose we include this in the list, and probably asterisk it. Mizu onna sango15 / 水 女 珊瑚15  01:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. I use 'whilst' at times too, but most Americans would probably consider its usage as pretentious in the U.S. Kman543210 (talk) 01:16, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, then, agreed. :) What I didn't realise, however, was that it was already in the article in the first place. I could swear it wasn't when I had previously searched for it... -- Mizu onna sango15 / 水 女 珊瑚15  03:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * A lot of Northern English use 'whilst' for 'while at the same time' because in some places 'while' on its own means 'until' i.e. "I don't get paid while Friday". ChrisRed (talk) 15:05, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Guff
This word does have widespread use in the US, albeit in a very narrow context. Guff is something that is specifically not taken, as in the phrase, "I didn't take any guff from him," or "She didn't take any of his guff," meaning nonsense, crap, grief, or backtalk. It is always a noun; you would not say "She guffed me," or "He's guffing that guy." It is also not usually given - no one would say "I gave him guff," but (rarely) someone will say "She was trying to give me a load of guff, but I wasn't taking any of it."

The US usage is very similar to the first UK meaning, but more limited. However, it is widely used, mostly by baby boomers or older. Should this be moved to the list of words having different meanings? MoiraDetroit (talk • contribs) 11:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Guff is definitely widely used in the United States, and not just by babyboomers. I've never heard it used as a verb, but it is used as a noun in several ways: Don't let him give you any guff, Don't take any guff from her, or Don't give him so much guff. Kman543210 (talk) 17:25, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

It's also slang for 'fart' in Britain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.76.74.20 (talk) 16:37, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Nosh
This word is also a common word in American English, with a similar (but not identical) meaning to the 1st British definition. Here in the States it refers to a snack, or to food grazing, such as the sampling of many dishes at a food fest or brunch. It would not be a big, satisfying meal. Here it originated as a Yiddishism, and is common enough that it is used in advertising and even in the name of businesses that sell a variety of take-out or snacks. Maybe it should be moved to list of words with different meanings?

I am completely charmed by the second definition, but how on earth do you manage to suggest noshing to your sweet baboo without laughing so hard that no actual noshing is possible? MoiraDetroit (talk) 17:00, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Freephone
I don't think Americans say freephone. They use "toll free." Should this be included?69.20.226.218 (talk) 20:53, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Americans would generally not understand "freephone", so it should be included. FREEPOST is also a good candidate for inclusion.  There's no FREEPOST per se in the States, but Business Reply Mail and Courtesy Reply Mail, which use pre-printed envelopes, are similar.  A pre-printed BRM or CRM envelope is generally referred to as a pre-paid envelope.  G Sisson 23:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Zimmerframe
How about Zimmerframe? I believe Americans call them walkers. mapryan 12:07, 17 October 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mapryan (talk • contribs)


 * If a Zimmerframe is a four-legged contraption that unfolds and is used for balance and security in walking, then yes, we Americans call it a walker, and it should be added. (It would be so much easier if we actually had pictures of these things.) MoiraDetroit (talk) 19:32, 20 October 2008 (UTC)


 * A Zimmerframe is actually a brand name, but used to mean all frames that aid walking. KillerKat (talk) 00:12, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a dictionary
This article is home to a lot of phrases, compound words, expressions, noun and verb phrases. There are several pages that document American and British English differences, this one is ostensibly to document words. When I see a compound word or phrase on this page, which exact words of those am I being told that I don't use often? This list is misleading. Everything I've removed, if true, actually belongs on different pages. Synchronism (talk) 16:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * So you think a mass deletion is somehow more constructive than, say, moving the page to List of British words or phrases not widely used in the United States? Nick Cooper (talk) 16:23, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * No, but the deletion of disinformation is constructive. I'm not sure where to put all of these unreferenced entries, I am sure they that they don't go here. Do you want to answer my question?Synchronism (talk) 16:32, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the sentiment of Nick Cooper. If people find the title misleading, then why not just change it (although I don't think it's a problem the way it is)? There is nothing wrong with including compound words in the list, and the phrases that are included are short two-word phrases. I see no reason to delete them. Kman543210 (talk) 16:30, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Read the lead section, compounds, especially ones where the constituents are used in both places, don't go here.Synchronism (talk) 16:35, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Agony aunt, for example does not have a Different Meaning tag, do I assume that Americans know not Agony or Aunt or possibly neither? When I see a compound word or phrase on this page, which exact words of those am I being told that I don't use often?Synchronism (talk) 16:39, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Whoa, whoa, whoa... Recent additions of answerphone and agony aunt to List of words having different meanings in British and American English simply don't work. In one case there is a BrE meaning and a pointless and invented "common meaning"; in the other case there is a BrE meaning and a translation in the AmE column - but no AmE meaning. Because in both cases they belong here, not there. I have some sympathy with the view that this list should contain words, not phrases, but please let's discuss it first, and please don't dump stuff in the other list that doesn't belong there, just because it doesn't fit one editor's view of what belongs here. SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 19:22, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I have reinstated the compound words, pending further discussion. SNALWIBMA</b> ( <b style="color:#2F4F4F;">talk</b> - <b style="color:#2F4F4F;">contribs</b> ) 20:08, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You have simply modified the scope of the article and not really addressed my concerns . This article and your retroactive editing are childish.  I thought compound word was a perfect boundary, now this list can be as boundless as any editors definition of word. Your reversions show no sympathy for my views.  Actions speak louder than words. Many entries to List of words having different meanings in British and American English lacked a column of information.  Will anyone address my concerns openly?Synchronism (talk) 20:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It is not retroactive editing, it is an attempt to get back a solid basis for a discussion, from which we can reach consensus and move on. As I said, I have considerable sympathy with the view that the list should be confined to words, and should not include phrases, but I'm not sure where best to draw the line. I would exclude, for example, "Bob's your uncle". But I would allow compound words like "agony aunt" - but let's discuss it. As for the things you added to List of words having different meanings in British and American English, it wasn't that they lacked a column of information, but rather that they had only one column of meaningful information, in the BrE column. In other words, they were words/phrases which are not used in AmE, not ones that have a different meaning in AmE. <b style="color:darkblue;">SNALWIBMA</b> ( <b style="color:#2F4F4F;">talk</b> - <b style="color:#2F4F4F;">contribs</b> ) 22:12, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I think we have - by changing a statement in the lead of the article and offering to slightly rephrase the title. Rmhermen (talk) 20:52, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That has not answered any of my questions.Are you going to correspondingly change List of American words not widely used in the United Kingdom? Or is this the only unbounded list?Synchronism (talk) 20:57, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, done. But that doesn't make the lists unbounded. List of British words not widely used in the United States still only contains "British words not widely used in the United States". Rmhermen (talk) 21:07, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I'm sorry I didn't equally scrutinise(British Spelling appplies here, right?) List of American words not widely used in the United Kingdom. In the end it's better to keep than delete. Happier editing in the future sirs, Synchronism (talk) 21:14, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Nobody says "deboard" in the US, and barrister is never pejorative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.0.41 (talk) 22:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Aggro and Guns
I've heard Amy Lee of Evanescence use the term, and she's as American as can be. Also, the terms "guns" to describe biceps is also popular in the U.S., it's not just a U.K.-centric term. --Crackthewhip775 (talk) 00:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Chamber pot and gormless
While I agree with most of the removals of slang and dialect words, I am not sure about "chamber pot" and "gormless". These are not (in my experience) particularly regional words, and while chamber pot is a little dated (because the articles themselves are relatively unusual these days) I don't know of any other term used in e.g. antique shops. In other words I believe it is the default British word. The question is whether it is widely used in the US. As for gormless, I have heard it used all over the country and I do not believe it is a regional or dialect work these days. Rachel Pearce (talk) 10:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The term "chamber pot" is used in the US. "Gormless" is not (what the heck does it mean)? 76.210.71.124 (talk) 12:08, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that chamber pot is used on both sides of the Atlantic. As for gormless, I had always understood it as BrE slang for spineless. However, according to the Cambridge Advanced Learner’s Dictionary, it means:


 * Definition
 * gormless
 * adjective UK INFORMAL
 * stupid and slow to understand:
 * He looks really gormless.


 * — SpikeToronto (talk) 18:04, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No I have never heard it used to mean "spineless". The Compact Oxford says:


 * gormless
 * • adjective Brit. informal stupid or slow-witted.
 * — DERIVATIVES gormlessly adverb gormlessness noun.
 * — ORIGIN from dialect gaum understanding, from an Old Norse word meaning ‘care, heed’.


 * which pretty much conforms to how I would use it. Except I didn't know the derivation which is interesting. So can we put gormless back in? I don't believe it is a dialect word at all and would be understood all over the country. Rachel Pearce (talk) 20:17, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

You know, here in Toronto, we get a lot of British television shows on Canadian channels as well as on American PBS. I have to say that I have heard gormless on most of them regardless of what region in the U.K. the show was supposed to be taking place: Cornwall, Manchester, Yorkshire, Scotland, and Ireland, just to name the ones that spring to mind. As an aside, an American dictionary, Webster’s 3d, says that gormless is a variant of gaumless which it defines as follows:

Main Entry: gaum·less Function: adjective Etymology: 1gaum + -less dialect : lacking comprehension or awareness : dull and stupid

Thus, we know that gaumless is derived from gaum, which is defined as follows:

Main Entry: 1gaum Function: noun Inflected Form(s): -s Etymology: Middle English gome, from Old Norse gaum, gaumr; akin to Old English gieme care, Old High German gouma attention, Old Norse geyma to keep, watch, heed, mind — more at FAVOR 1 dialect England : HEED, ATTENTION 2 dialect England : UNDERSTANDING, PERCEPTION

As for Webster’s saying that gormless is dialect, remember, that edition of Webster’s is over 40 years old. I provide the American entries only as a way to provide the etymology. — SpikeToronto (talk) 00:00, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Scally and Trollop
How about scally and trollop? I don't believe these are really used in America. --96.246.213.75 (talk) 17:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Never heard of the words so they obviously aren't used that much in Britain either. Munci (talk) 09:29, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I've never heard of "scally" (Related to "scalawag"?)
 * Trollop = promiscuous, loose woman  LizFL (talk) 11:39, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * We don't say trollop in North America. (Trollope is the author.) I think of it as common in Britain, but probably antiquated at this point. I could easily find myself calling my serving wench at the alehouse a trollop if she messed up my order for negus and mead. But I could then end up in the pillory, as so often happens.
 * I have never heard the word 'scally'.
 * Varlaam (talk) 20:44, 1 September 2010 (UTC) in Toronto


 * Scally is a Mancunian word for a Chav. I don't know how it's used in the rest of the country, though. KillerKat (talk) 21:20, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Scally (isn't it said in Liverpool as well?) is probably too local for this list. I put Wazzock (a Sheffield-based word) in the other day, but is that also too local? And has Grockle spread outside the west country? Totnesmartin (talk) 10:41, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Wazzock is a term invented specifically for use regarding Tanya. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.33.6.66 (talk) 15:26, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Some do use "trollop" in North America. I've never had someone question its meaning when I've said it.  --Nouniquenames (talk) 04:48, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

"Throw a Wobbly"
Surely this is an Australian colloquialism, not British? 86.161.146.157 (talk) 23:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * We use it. &mdash; Hex   <font color="#000">(❝ ?! <font color="#000">❞)  02:27, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

aggro
i can't cite any references, but this has been used since long before the advent of online gaming in my experience, and i'm pretty sure it came into british use from australian soap operas (probably a few others on this page too, did not read it all). 217.112.88.175 (talk) 18:56, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "Aggro" was in common usage in the rural Northamptonshire of my 1960s childhood, long before Australian soaps had made it to these shores. Rachel Pearce (talk) 22:39, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Mark for Deletion
I think that this article, and the "list of american words not widely used in great britian" article and several others poorly attempting to subjectively make a distinction between English English and 'American' English should be removed immediately.

Reasons can be read above. For example the "Throw a Wobbly" comment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.33.86 (talk) 06:33, 17 December 2009 (UTC) Both reasons for deletion given make little sense. Regarding the objectiveness of the article, the use of references avoids the inclusion of personal opinions. The article can be improved, however, if the individual words were referenced, currently there is a bibliography section which should be converted into a reference. For the code for the reuse of a reference see foot note policy. If there are one or two factual errors in long an article does not warrant the deletion of the whole. I gave the page a gander and there were really few words, like choong, nicker without the k and some military terms, which I've never heard of, but the rest I have and some of which I often use, including some marked as archaic like codswallop (which is demoralising (along with the fact that the browser suggests writing demoralizing)). On the flipside, I opened the yankee version page and fell instantly ill by the spelling and words (burglarize?). Nor does it contain kiwi words such as to hoone (=to speed), joker (=chap), tikitour (=around the houses) and tramp (=hike) or Assie words like tucker (=food), bush (=outdoors), walkie (=AWOL) etc. The words listed herein tend to be colloquial, namely the funnier ones, and some common differing words are not present like trolley (US: cart), aluminium (US: aluminum) cuppa (cup of tea) etc. It may pay off to better differentiate the slang words into categories such dialect, uneducated English ("sounds like she is well fit, man, you know") and BBC English. Lastly, please do not use uppercase for titles, do not place a comma before "and", do not use "and" twice in a list, do not forget commas around subordinate sentences and most importantly do not use "subjectively" (=in a personal/biased way) in place of objectively (=in an unbiased/scientific way). --Squidonius (talk) 07:42, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

situations vacant (pages), appointments pages
Neither of these seems to be ever used in US English. See also this discussion and this dictionary. --Espoo (talk) 08:37, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Wonky
I have removed the misguided references to US "wonk," which is a completely different, and probably unrelated, word. A "policy wonk" is not someone whose policies are wonky.Pdronsard (talk) 23:36, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

List of British Words not widely used in Britain
"Bob-cobbled"? Never heard of it, and I'm a native Briton who'se lived in England for decades. "Bobbins" I've also never heard of in the meaning given. I only looked up to "B", there may be others in the list. 84.13.187.167 (talk) 15:37, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

So if I just copy-pasted in half of UrbanDictionary...
would anyone know the difference? OK, I'm being flippant. However, without strong limiting criteria for this list how are we to distinguish it as encyclopaedic content, as opposed to any other user-edited whatever on the web? Interest is not a significant criterion for inclusion in Wikipedia. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we might go about defining the scope of this list so as to make it fully relevant to the project? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.41.11 (talk) 20:29, 11 May 2010 (UTC) Howfar (talk) 20:32, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Hello Merovingian
I say, I know you're reading this so listen up. Smibbly bibbly is a term that has been invented before, and actually is mainly used in Great Britain. Saying otherwise is nothing more than denial and a obvious showing of anger on your part. Also, bandwagoning is a bad thing to do my good sir or madam. Please pick a team and stick with it through and through, no matter what problems arise. Thank you and good day sir or madam!

~Englishman —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.52.185.137 (talk) 23:58, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

>implying boards.4chan.org/sp/ is a forum. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.13.12.217 (talk) 00:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

cold on the cob
i think that "cold on the cob" be added to the list, because since i have moved to the U.S.A, i have only heard people call cold-on-the-cob "Popsicles", which i think is just a popular brand name here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.117.214.163 (talk) 04:06, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request
edit request editsemiprotected Could someone add the phrase "Mexican wave" to the list? I was listening to some British commentators and they used this phrase and I had no idea what they were refering to. Thank you and have a great day! Article is protected so I need some help. 74.94.86.1 (talk) 16:55, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Padlock-silver-slash2.svg Not done: is not required for edits to semi-protected, unprotected pages, or pending changes protected pages.  Salvio ( Let's talk 'bout it!) 10:36, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Biscuit?
I've not heard americans use biscuit before, it's cookie for them isn't it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.84.117.232 (talk) 21:16, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, but biscuit does have a meaning in American English (a cross between a scone and a dumpling), and therefore it does not belong here but on List of words having different meanings in British and American English, where you will find it. Rachel Pearce (talk) 09:25, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Northern and Scottish words
There are, of course, large vocabularies there and, I assume, articles that address them in detail.

But there are also a handful of terms which can be used on a television programme, for example, for regional flavour, or local colour. Those words will be understood by everyone in Surrey or Hampshire, but not necessarily by anyone in North America. A sentence otherwise in standard English might have a single word put in for colour.

The equivalent in the US might be to insert y'all in order to have the character labelled as a Southerner.

I am thinking of a very modest group of words, like wee, bairn, nowt, summat, and so on. Is it worthwhile adding that handful?

The See Also section could also point to some other regional vocabulary lists.

Varlaam (talk) 18:22, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * There may be 1 or 2 words which are routinely used in programmes to establish a character as Cornish or West Country, in addition to the obvious accents. You know, those few simple words that little children first learn to notice as markers for people from various parts of their country. "People from there always say this that way." Varlaam (talk) 19:57, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * There are articles that discuss dialects, see List of dialects of the English language for a selection. Some go into vocabulary (e.g. Yorkshire dialect), but not all of them do.  I think it would be great to have an article that pulls together some of the less common British vocabulary; it could be tabled (as List of words having different meanings in British and American English: A–L is) with columns for the meanings in different regions/dialects.  I couldn't find anything like this (which surprises me a little). I'm sure that most of the words aren't appropriate for this list though, that would make it "the list of not commonly used British words also not commonly used in the United States", .  Wee has possibly travelled enough of Britain to qualify, but even then it should go in List of words having different meanings in British and American English: M–Z and not here.  Hope that helps at least a little bit!   Mae <font color="#008080">din\ talk 12:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Tap
Is it true that British and Canadians say tap but Americans only say faucet? Varlaam (talk) 21:19, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No, tap and faucet are used interchangeably in the United States.  Mae <font color="#008080">din\ talk 06:12, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * But actually, there is a difference. Faucet is what you turn on; tap is what the water comes out of.  In a few cases, we Americans do make the distinction.


 * We here in the US often speak of "tap" water. LizFL (talk) 05:02, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Ephemeral slang
I am looking at the two latest additions.

Perhaps the introductory paragraph could be stronger on the subject of the exclusion of neologisms or other ephemera?

Varlaam (talk) 16:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Move char to List of words having different meanings in British and American English?
Should char be moved? "Char" (blacken with heat) exists in both. But it's not "list of words for which both have a common meaning" (even though some words there do fall under that) If it were moved, then probably would affect char/cha (tea) and char/charwoman/charlady (tealady), all moving to a single "char" entry in LoWHDMiBaAE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DewiMorgan (talk • contribs) 17:00, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Regional dialectical terms: exclude from this list?
I removed "owt" and "nowt" from the list as regional slang, based on prior discussion on this talk page. These removals were reverted with "Regional, yes. Common, yes. I've heard this in a panto in Toronto." Now, I do not feel that Toronto is a very good source for UK use, and nor is a single use in one item of popular media.

But, I thought I'd better find out what the consensus is. Could well be that I'm in the minority.

My argument against including dialectical terms is simple: there is a huge number of dialects, each of which has a huge number of unique words, as well as unique meanings for existing words. Certainly, many of these dialects are understood throughout the UK, or even the world, but it is far better to create a new list for each dialect (e.g. List of Cornish dialect words), than to clog these lists up with terms that are not common to at least roughly the whole of the UK/US. There are plenty of dialect pages linked from British English. However, it could be that these terms are felt to be sufficiently useful to people coming to this page, that consensus is they should stay. In which case I'm fine with that, and will keep an eye out for other commonly used and widespread dialectical terms. - DewiMorgan (talk) 15:09, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Merge with another article on the same subject
I think that this should be merged with one of the many other pages on exactly this subject, possibly to create a page called something like "words and phrases that differ between AmE and BrE". Billaar (talk) 13:17, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * A list of words only used in Britain is intrinsically different from a list of words used in both Britain and America. Are you proposing merging them into one ginormous list?

Clock watching
Surely this is used and understood in America? Maybe there's a difference re hyphenization, or perhaps, since plural form is given, the term "clock-watching" is used in the UK to refer to the person who engages in this act. If so, this should be made more clear.173.30.155.124 (talk) 14:49, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

friend of Dorothy
"a lesbian. This expression originated in the United States and is in common use there, although in the US it generally refers to a gay man."

Really? Citation? It means a gay man in the UK too, from the affection in which Judy Garland (who played Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz) was once held by gay men. &mdash; 194.74.1.82 (talk) 14:25, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

"Baby Minder"
It's "Childminder", not "Baby Minder". Just have to do a google search. "Baby minder" gets 100k hits. "Childminder" gets 21m. Naznomarn (talk) 21:34, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's "baby sitter" and "child minder" in the UK. I've never heard of a baby minder. Totnesmartin (talk) 07:07, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Someone changed the definition and removed the reference to 'babbysitter' with a comment that it meant something different. Yet the definition, particularly as they amended, it is exactly what a babysitter is. PRL42 (talk) 14:07, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

"Return"
I suggest that an entry be added for "return", for its British usage equivalent to "round-trip". "Return fare" is fare for going to AND from a destination, not just for returning FROM the destination — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.140.179.13 (talk) 19:43, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Boot
If "bonnet" is in this list for the U.S. "hood", then it should also include "boot" for the U.S. "trunk" (of an automobile). 207.140.179.13 (talk) 21:46, 10 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes HiLo48 (talk) 22:23, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Coolybox and Nutty gum
Are these real or just 4chan dreck? Rmhermen (talk) 04:05, 2 December 2011 (UTC) Neither. Reddit has been having a field day. Not sure if these are actual slang, though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.172.196 (talk) 04:25, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. We need someone well versed in British slang to separate the Reddit crap from the real phrases. Mattbash (talk) 04:29, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Nutty gum for sure is, I have a British friend who is big into peanut butter and he's always calling it that. Not sure about "Coolybox". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.41.207.232 (talk) 04:33, 19 December 2011 (UTC) At risk of more hellishness, I could consult /int/ as to which of these phrases are correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.172.196 (talk) 04:35, 19 December 2011 (UTC) I've heard Coolybox used quite frequently in the lancashire area. I think it might have even ended up in New Zealand as the similar "Chilly-bin" 122.148.97.86 (talk) 04:42, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Most of these are fake, if the article wasn't locked I'd remove them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nipponcarisbestcar (talk • contribs) 05:01, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Cha/Char derived from Chinese
Surely, if tea was introduced into the UK by Catherine de Braganza, then the British term "Cha" comes not from the Chinese but from the Portuguese "Chá", which is itself the one that comes from the Chinese? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.137.239.168 (talk) 19:59, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Dibs?
Where in Britain does 'dibs' mean 'cash'?! I hear it a lot and only ever to mean a claim on something or someone apparently up for grabs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.184.2.204 (talk) 10:29, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed. PRL42 (talk) 15:03, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Foot path
This entry looked as if it was written from someone who was not from the UK: I've edited it (be bold) but I'm a little concerned that I may have added a SE bias. Specific changes are: 1) It usually one word or hyphenated. 2) It is not used for a wide path that runs from the adjacent property to the road (delineated by a kerb). 3) It is not necessarily alongside a road at all. PRL42 (talk) 15:03, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Whinge
Does it matter who "Kerry" is? I'm assuming that Kerry is a hypothetical housewife who is intended to illustrate the usage of the term "whinge" (she could be just easily be named Mary, Jane, or Anna).


 * If it's a notable quote, it should stay as part of the quote. If it's just made up, it shouldn't be used in the first place and aside form that, why add a distracting detail like the wife's name? Possibly an editor whose wife is call Kerry having a joke with or a dig at her but it doesn't add to the article. Mutt Lunker (talk) 19:30, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The sentence was an example, rather than a quote which was why I originally reverted its removal. However, on looking at it more closely, it wasn't an example of the word 'whinger', which it purported to be, neither using the word nor identifying a 'whinger' (who is someone who habitually whinges about a lot of things rather than simply someone who has a complaint). PRL42 (talk) 08:18, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Baby-Minder
There is no term "Baby-minder", the correct term should be "childminder", all one word. This is someone who looks after a number of children, often picking them up from school. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.152.51.2 (talk) 16:29, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Merriam-Webster disagrees . Rmhermen (talk) 16:35, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * As the MW link requires subscription, does it say the term is British? Childminder or babysitter I've heard here but never babyminder (or childsitter for that matter). Mutt Lunker (talk) 17:05, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * But if it is in MW, then surely it is not specifically a 'British word not widely used' - merely an English word that is not widely used anywhere. I had never heard the term until I encountered this page (although it does appear in OED - first example 1856). Unless anyone has any views to the contrary it does not appear to belong in this article. PRL42 (talk) 17:09, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Managed to get the link without requiring subscription, where it states the Britsh equivalent is baby sitter. Definitely doesn't belong then. Mutt Lunker (talk) 17:11, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You have that reversed. The link says thgat it is a British term that means babysitter. Rmhermen (talk) 17:15, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * On the basis of verifiability over truth, difficult to counter MW then but neither Chambers or Collins have the term at all, both have babysitter. Citation of it in a British publication or by a British author would prove more convincing. Mutt Lunker (talk) 17:56, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe it should be in an article: "British words not widely used in Southern England". "Child-minder" is common throughout the UK so by extension, "baby-minder" is easily understood but certainly not common 'down South'. (If you google it there are instances from UK papers.) PRL42 (talk) 18:00, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * "British words not widely used in Scotland or Southern England"? "British words not widely used in Britain"? Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:07, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

999
<tt> >(pronounced "nine nine nine") the British emergency telephone number (USA: 911)</tt>

How does this belong in this list? It's a phone number not a different word. --91.10.120.102 (talk) 17:15, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree. Should probably be removed. Let's give it a couple of days and see if anyone makes a good case for it and if there is no consensus to keep, it's history PRL42 (talk) 17:38, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

How about this for a precedent? List of American words not widely used in the United Kingdom

9-1-1   (pronounced "nine-one-one") the US emergency telephone number (UK: 999)

Make one of them history, then make the other history also. Keep one, then keep the other. Yeah? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.93.239.247 (talk) 12:50, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Bap
I've been advised to take this to here to "pursue it".

I'm not really too inclined to do this, however, an editor keeps removing content I have added. You have also removed the content, with no satisfactory explanation.

Editing her article has become the biggest pain in the butt I have ever experienced in my many years online.

TRY USING COMMON SENSE! I will be adding, yet again, my contribution. If anyone has any problems with the facts I have added, feel free to take it up here - WITHOUT REMOVING IT AND INSULTING THE CONTRIBUTOR ON HIS TALK PAGE OR ELSEWHERE - or take it up with the people who use the words I have added (those people of Scotland, Northern Ireland and northern England)!

My GOD, do some actual frigging work instead of bunging this place up with frigging bureaucracy!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.93.239.247 (talk) 13:12, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If you wish to change the text on that page you will need to provide valid citations to support your assertions (Namely that the word is only used in Scotland [definitely untrue as I'm from the deep South and have used the word for decades] and that people commonly refer to hamburger buns as 'baps'). Until such time as you have done that your changes will be reverted. Your are already in contravention of the 'three reverts' rule. PRL42 (talk) 13:30, 29 May 2012 (UTC)


 * The same sort of issues pertain to the majority of entries in this article but I'll just address this one word here. There appears to be doubt as to whether the term is restricted to the north of England and/or Scotland, is more widespread within the UK or if it is in fact also used in the USA, the latter case meaning it wouldn't have a place here at all. The entry already stated that it means a bread roll, so stating that a bread roll with a hamburger in it is a bap is superfluous (as it would be that a bread roll with cheese in it could be called a bap etc.). The usage for "head" may well be current but I'm pretty sure it's not used at all widely throughout the UK (and personally I've never heard it in Scotland). If all terms which, in addition to not being in use in the USA, were only in very restricted usage also in the UK were added here you'd have a very large and rather pointless list.


 * In summary, though any and all entries ought to be cited here, there are several aspects of this entry which I and at least one other user find particularly questionable, hence the onus is on you to provide verification or remove them. You can't just add stuff because you "know" it and place the onus on others to disprove you. In your terms, it's you that must "do some frigging work". Again, please read WP:V and also you could check the British slang article for comparison which has become much improved by the provision of copious reliable citations. Mutt Lunker (talk) 16:15, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

There's been an edit conflict, but here is what I had originally intended to post:

Contravention of whatnow?

The deep south of what? Scotland? England? Regardless, I think you've misunderstood the edit. Perhaps a clearer sentence would help. From what I understand, and I could be wrong, you believe that my edit asserts that the word bap is only used in Scotland. That is not my assertion at all. Here is the original edit:

bap (Northern English and Scottish) soft bread roll or a sandwich made from it; in plural, breasts (vulgar slang), e.g. "a lovely pair of baps".

You can see there that the suggestion is that the word bap (at least in the context of a roll or sandwich) is used ONLY in Northern English and Scottish.

Here is my change, in full:

bap (Northern expression for) soft bread roll or a sandwich made from it, or the bread used in a hamburger; in plural, breasts (vulgar slang), e.g. "Ain't she got a lovely pair of baps"; a person's head (Northern Ireland, Scotland, Northern England).

Clearly, I have changed the inference to include all of the north, as the word is used throughout northern England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. If your suggestion is that the word is also used in the south of England, then you should make the relevant change, and not revert what I have written. You should, in fact, enhance the entry for the word.

I grew up with the people in question, and I know for a fact that the people in those locales use the word bap to refer to a roll or a "hamburger bap". Bap is also used throughout the UK and indeed the British Isles to refer to breasts. Bap is also used to refer to a person's head in AT LEAST those three specific regions of the UK: Northern England, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

I do not have to prove that the sky is blue.

However, I'm sure a quick search on the Internet will provide you with examples of people from those locations using the word in those various contexts.

In the mean time, I will add the information back again to what I know - intimately - to be the facts.

Finally, perhaps the BOTH of you (now that two people have decided to rid this "free to edit" site of my perfectly valid contributions) should ask yourselves what purpose you are serving. Ask yourselves what motivation might I have in adding this information? Could it possibly be that I'd like to educate people who otherwise might not be aware of regional English language variants?

Or, perhaps I am going to all this bother because you deem that any change from the status quo or from what you may be familiar with personally must be "vandalism" - something you have accused me of twice now. (What a bloody cheek by the way! And in contravention, surely, of WP:AGF, no?)

The sky IS blue. I don't have to provide "valid citations" for it - I can open my eyes and, providing it's not cloudy, see it for myself. Or a reader of the article could. Likewise, a reader of the article can also pop on over to any of the regions indicated and, given a reasonable period of time, undoubtedly hear the word being used in the given contexts.

Alternatively, if you are adamant to assume bad faith and accuse me of "vandalism" - an accusation which is tantamount to an accusation of lying, then you could always spend a minute researching it to your satisfaction. --173.93.239.247 (talk) 19:42, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I will read the latest response later and probably reply also.


 * Deep South, presumably.


 * Saying "northern" in a British context is ambiguous at best as, annoying and inaccurate as it is, common usage in England at least (where the bulk of the population is, thus winning by numbers) implies Northern England. Few people would assume it meant Northern England and Scotland, let alone those two with N. Ireland. Specifying "Northern English and Scottish" ("...and N. Irish" if you like) is thus clearer.


 * "I know for a fact" counts for nought here. This isn't a chat room or a blog. WP:V, as you've been told. This is not about the sky being blue, it is about a considerably more obscure matter. You have provided no reliable sources and your edit is being questioned. Provide reliable sources if you have them and you will have dealt with the issue. I've never heard the term used in Scotland for a head, never in my puff, hence questioning you. If you said two women knocked their baps together where I'm from it would have only one meaning.


 * Specifying the use of a hamburger in a bap (not a bap in a burger as you imply) as opposed to anything else in it is superfluous. The entry already states it means a bread roll, so elaborating a bread roll with a burger in it is pointless.


 * This article is not about "regional English variants". As I've said above, words that are not even widespread in the UK, particularly ones under question, are poor examples to give in a list of British words not used in the US. Shall I also add the entirety of the Scots language (along with Welsh and Gaelic)? That would expand the scope to a meaningless level for this particular article.


 * If "a quick search on the Internet will provide you with examples of people from those locations using the word in those various contexts", off you go ""do some frigging work".


 * You may not be a vandal but you certainly have serious shortcomings regarding an understanding of the verification of material here. If you are asked legitimate questions about the validity of your material, simply adding it back in because you know best does not give the best impression as to your intents. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:52, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Ah - THAT deep south! Well, it hardly surprises me that the word bap has made it there: I believe it is Scots in origin, and plenty of Scots and Ulster-Scots migrated to that region of the world. However, somebody saw fit to add the word to this list. If the other person could specify which context he has used that word in, perhaps we could eliminate that context or at least make a note about it.

Mutt, I don't disagree with you on your point about the regions. (As an aside, I don't think numbers or bulk of population has any bearing on this discussion - language or language use is the one main thing that differentiates the various British cultures across the islands). Specifying N.England, Northern Ireland and Scotland may be a bit unwieldy, but I would be fine with either including all the specific regions or ignoring the lot, at the start of the sentence.

"I know for a fact" may not "count" with you, or with your apparent fastidiousness adherence to bureaucracy, but your attitude leaves no room for common sense. The guidelines here even suggest that common sense trumps everything else.

''Wikipedia has many rules. Instead of following every rule, it is acceptable to use common sense as you go about editing. Being too wrapped up in rules can cause loss of perspective, so there are times when it is better to ignore a rule.''

''Why isn't "use common sense" an official policy? It doesn't need to be; as a fundamental principle, it is above any policy.''

The guidelines also suggest that inline citations are only required with contentious additions, or quotes, or additions which are likely to be challenged. As I grew up in the region specified, and know the regions intimately, I had absolutely no thought of my addition being 'challenged'! Nor had I ever imagined I'd be writing half a dissertation on the addition of information which is not only my assertion or what I know for a fact, but is actually fact, and is not only fact, but can easily be seen to be fact by a couple of simple Internet searches:


 * "bap meaning head"


 * "hamburger bap"

Pay particular attention to the sites which suggest that bap is used to denote the head in Scotland, Northern Ireland and in Yorkshire.

I'm offended by the tone you are using with me, when you suggest that this site "isn't a chat room or blog.. as you've been told". Aside from the fact that I have been online well before the addition of graphics to the Internet, and some years before Berners-Lee's WWW vision was implemented, Wikipedia has, since its inception, had a rather dubious reputation amongst academics and serious researchers and scholars. So don't get haughty with me, son. So far, your officious nature has done nothing but rub me up the wrong way. You are the fan of Wikipedia - you are the one who has created an account with the site and attempts to maintain its content. Now I'm sure that you have made many worthy contributions to this place, but to date you come across as merely a bottleneck and a tedious bureaucrat who is more interested in explaining policies and trying to get people to jump through hoops, rather than investigate, research, learn, educate and help others.

And so on to the failure of policy. Dialect - even common words and phrases - on the Internet can be skewed, misspelled or even omitted entirely from common usage in text, and even from research papers on dialects. What we might be left with are a few (or even many) examples of individuals using this word in the given contexts in a non-professional environment (such as your aforementioned chat rooms or blogs).

Would these satisfy your desire for "reliable sources"? I wouldn't be convinced of that, if my dealings with you up until now are anything to go by.

As obscure as this may seem to you, it has been common as muck (or brass, if you prefer) to many of the Scots and Ulster folk I have met through four decades or so of my puff ("puff" - a sure sign to me that you are indeed Scottish!).

I disagree with you in regard to your suggestion that mentioning hamburger baps is superfluous. I have spent a lot of time in the deep south of the USA (ironically) and, in my experience, the word bap is never used to describe the bread that surrounds the meat of a burger (often called a "pattie" in the deep south). While a southern (US) person might understand (if you're lucky) what you mean by "bap" in a certain context, many will be confused unless you explain to them the meaning of the word bap in reference to burgers additionally. Talking about baps for sausages would probably leave them stuttering "dog?.. dog..?"

I have no idea what you mean about "not a bap in a burger". I've never bore witness to the phenomenon of a bap inside a disc of meat.

This article is about "British words". It is not about "British words that the majority of people concentrated in the south of the island of Great Britain use". The entry on bap has already been made. I elaborated, as a commonly-used context had not been included.

Presumably, if you're not wanting to add words of a Scots origin, or Gaelic or Welsh, then you'll be not wanting to include words of a Romantic origin either - you know, the French and Latin ones, and all the Germanic and Scandinavian ones. Bog is of Irish Gaelic origin, for example - let's axe that one.

You'll also be wanting to remove words which are pretty region-specific that are already on the list, such as "blimey", "blag", "bint", "bleeder", "blower", "bristols" (and that's just the Bs!).

Personally, I'm starting to think this place is full of people who are "aff their baps"!

I'm going off now and I'm going to attempt to ignore images going round my head of woman knocking their baps together! --173.93.239.247 (talk) 05:41, 30 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm almost at a loss as to where to start with such a litany of misunderstanding of what I've said and misattributions of my intent. A starting place might be to re-read my earlier posts which I'd thought were clearly expressed. Apologies if they are not.


 * Your google search of "bap meaning head" listing ten links has some which provide definitions of bap but no support (the word "head" just appearing in an ad or something), some which appear to be discussions/otherwise self-published sources which anyone can add to unregulated and even then all but one (the Yorkshire one) provide no support or refer to the supposed term "bap head", not bap for head. There is precisely one (the BBC Ulster one) which could be described as a reliable source in WP terms. I haven't looked at the "hamburger bap" list as I'm not contending the usage, only its relevance.


 * Your continued comparison of the sky being blue to what is a much lesser known fact shows very clear misunderstanding of this guideline. This refers to matters which are abundantly clear to everyone, not abundantly clear to you because of your specialist knowledge on a topic. If these facts were so obvious, why is it of value to lay them out in an encyclopedia?


 * I have made it abundantly clear I am Scots (also clearly displayed on my user page). This is no secret and I don't understand why you think this is a discovery.


 * I did not say that I am "not wanting to add words of a Scots origin, or Gaelic or Welsh". I don't want to add every word (or an excessive amount, shall we say) in these languages because most will be largely unknown throughout the majority of Britain, let alone the U.S.. By extension words or definitions which are obscure throughout the majority of Britain for whatever reason are unlikely to be pertinent in this article.


 * I'm not sure where your quote that this should be a list of "British words that the majority of people concentrated in the south of the island of Great Britain use". I certainly didn't say it, do not hold to it and have said nothing that indicates I do. Mutt Lunker (talk) 08:04, 30 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Whilst I understand some of your frustration with the rules here (which, for example, can allow articles on people who are virtually unheard of on the basis that someone in a local paper has written a couple of lines about them and at the same time deny an article about someone known to millions), these rules are not the problem here. There seem to be three particular problems you are having.


 * Finding citations that show that 'bap' is localised within the UK (admittedly, difficult, because it isn't - put it into the search box for any national supermarket and you will find products)
 * Finding citations that show that 'bap' can be used as a synonym for 'head. (BTW, finding a citation does NOT mean typing something into Google and presenting the resultant list as evidence - even if it did, the search results do not demonstrate what you are claiming).
 * Demonstrating any sensible reason why 'bap' should be specially related to hamburgers and not, for example, egg rolls or 'BR' cheese salad rolls, both of which frequently use baps. PRL42 (talk) 09:08, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Hullo again. I have two responses to reply to here and I'll reply to the last first.

PRL: It isn't helpful to suggest that I am personally having a problem. To suggest such a thing is confrontational and makes you appear haughty - whether or not that is your attention. I would ask you to choose your words more carefully in future. Try talking, for example, about the problem we have. Or the issue at hand. I don't know if I have done this myself, due to the frustrations I face in spending so much needless time discussing whether or not the sky is blue, but I will endeavour to make things less personal if you both could do the same.

As an aside, I personally believe that the rules are the problem here. Or rather, strict adherence to the rules. The rules are (I believe as Wikipedia itself suggests) merely guidelines. If rules are inflexible then exceptional circumstances cannot be accounted for. Even judges in courts realise that not everything is black-and-white, and return verdicts or punishments based on individual basis and using common sense (see WP:COMMON I believe).

In this case, I do certainly realise that Wikipedia has a rule that one cannot cite oneself as a source. I have also seen guidelines as to what makes a good source for citation and what doesn't. However, those guidelines are supposed to be for something particularly ambiguous or controversial. There is nothing ambiguous nor controversial about this.

Again, the fact that bap is a slang term and is probably hard to find in places other than social media website (perhaps in a few published books), necessitates a Google search as the best and possibly only method of presenting evidence. From that, we can apply common sense: does it appear as if people from Scotland, Northern Ireland and Northern England use the word in the context I suggested (obviously I know that myself, family and friends from these regions have all used the word in the context at some point or another, so I don't need convincing as I already know the facts)? The Google results suggest that they do (contrary to what you suggest here). Taking just two of the websites


 * This dictionary discussion forum page about Yorkshire dialect suggests the word is used to mean head.
 * This BBC webpage clearly indicates that the word is used to mean head.

I will discuss the meaning of the word bap (if necessary) as pertaining to burgers separately, to keep things clear and simple. I actually discovered that I have a citation from a published book which will presumably satisfy the bureaucrats. I will therefore stick the citation in the article and re-add the particular text. I assume citations will follow for the words I mentioned earlier, such as "blimey", "blag", "bint", "bleeder", "blower", "bristols".

Mutt, I'm sorry for presenting you with such a "litany" of misunderstanding and "misattribution". However, since we're making accusations, I'm sure you are equally sorry for "misattributing" "as vandalism" my edits, and for misunderstanding wherein you think fact is "dubious". I had thought that my intentions were clear and obviously not "vandalism", and that (despite Wikipedia guidelines) a certain amount of credence would be afforded someone.. you know - assuming good faith and not merely dismissing someone's experience as simply "dubious".

I think a starting place for you would be to re-read the pages on which the the word in context is explained (in fact, I highlighted two of them above in my bullet list). Of course, you suggest that the BBC one is good enough, so that's good enough for me. You also admit that I have specialist knowledge on the subject.

However, you kinda go on to contradict yourself, by stating on the one hand that the sky being blue must be understood by everyone on the planet, and then by saying that if the fact is obvious why is it of value in an encyclopaedia? The fact is that, as you have suggested (in rather condescending tones in edit summaries) that the usage is rare or "obscure"... apparently suggesting that you are in fact aware of the existence of the usage of the word in this particular context.

The question I have to ask, then, is why on Earth would you decide to remove the usage of the word if you are in fact aware of it?

The word is indeed obscure on a global scale: probably nobody in China, for example, would have heard of the word in that context. Notwithstanding that probably few people in China would have heard of the word in ANY context of course! But in the areas in which it is used, it is taken for granted and therefore the sky is blue.

As for your ethnic identity, it was a discovery to me. Of course, to those who know you (here on Wikipedia, or personally), the sky is blue with regard to your ethnicity: it is fact. I'm sorry I offended your sensibilities with regard to the matter though: all I had intended by my comment was to reach out in jocular recognition by referring to the identification of the use of the word "puff" in the context you used it, of a fairly common Scots word. I don't think I have even looked at your user page. As a Scot, I'm sure this is probably where you've heard the word bap used in the context of head.

My sarcastic quote with regard to a list of "British words that the majority of people concentrated in the south of the island of Great Britain use" was in response to a lot of the words currently listed. Taking the words I chose beginning with the letter 'B', for example: "blimey", "blag", "bint", "bleeder", "blower", "bristols" - they all appear to me to be words used or with origins mostly in London or the south of England. When it comes to the less-populous north of England, Northern Ireland and Scotland though, is it different rules for these "obscure" places? --173.93.239.247 (talk) 16:59, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Further to the latest edits to my contribution to this article (so much time wasted in order to inform the ignorant that the sky really is blue!):


 * Bap is used in the same context of a bread roll and breasts in Northern Ireland.
 * The "2nd def." you referred to in your edit summary is the one about breasts. I assume you meant the 3rd def of the word in the article.
 * "Northern" is, I guess, potentially ambiguous. In my case I was referring to the north of the country which is defined by the term "British" (ie, the United Kingdom). People often refer to the north of England, northern Scotland and, of course, Northern Ireland. So I guess putting in some specific regions clears that up. I'm not convinced the word in those contexts are confined to geo-political borders though.
 * In your first edit, you remarked "not Scotland". Scottish people do use expressions including the word bap in the context of "head". I've also heard it used by people from Yorkshire. Once again, culturally speaking, there's a lot of cross-over. Language in particular blends from region to region, and there's a huge amount of cross-over throughout the British Isles. The word, in the context of the head, may even be a Scots (or Lallans) word in origin.

Shall I ask for citations for these other obscure words now ("blimey", "blag", "bint", "bleeder", "blower", "bristols"), or will you do it? ;) --173.93.239.247 (talk) 01:03, 6 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I've removed the regional qualification from the primary definition as it's blatantly incorrect. Just check the national supermarket sites and it is clear that it is a common term for a bread roll throughout the UK. PRL42 (talk) 06:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Yup - I had thought that was the case, though I didn't want to get involved in another argument!! :P --173.93.239.247 (talk) 14:42, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

British spelling
Isn't this rather the wrong way around. This page is most likely to be used by Americans looking for an obscure British word so it would make more sense for the spelling to be US. Obviously the complementary article should (on the same basis) have British spelling. Possibly a little late now as changing them would be an arduous and error prone task. PRL42 (talk) 17:11, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Mitt Romney's backside
Mitt Romney's recent reference to "look(ing) out of the back side of 10 Downing Street" would indicate that the British meaning of buttocks or posterior is either unused or at at least uncommon in the US. However Webster lists this usage without indicating the usage is restricted geographically, as does Chambers. Is this meaning "not widely used in the US"? Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:59, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Your use of these citations smacks of NPOV and using wikipedia as a soapbox to express a political statement. Whether you like Mr. Romney or not, they should and will be removed in the interests of a neutral encyclopedia.--ColonelHenry (talk) 01:35, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The citations illustrate a prominent example of an American's usage of a term, unaware of its different meaning in the UK and thus a useful illustration for this wiki article. That is all. His politics are neither here nor there, as are the rest of the contents of the cited articles which, anyway, largely discuss his proneness to gaffes more than his politics. Even if we are to look at the irrelevant aspects of the cited articles, there is as much or more criticism from figures who may be said to be from the same part of the political spectrum (e.g. Cameron, Johnston). Mutt Lunker (talk) 09:59, 2 August 2012 (UTC)


 * You seem to be somewhat confused as to what the citations are there for. They are there to demonstrate a certain usage, not to say anything one way or the other about anyone's politics. PRL42 (talk) 15:04, 2 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It would be best (if you want to cite examples of usage for the word) to keep politics out of what should be an apolitical list. There are probably other examples out there on the internet that aren't polemical or  border on vandalism.  By using the article as a not-so-veiled attempt at interjecting political criticism of anyone, you undermine the ability of Wikipedia to be a credible encyclopaedia. This kind of nonsense doesn't improve Wikipedia.  This is nonsense that is no better than an anonymous post on a chat forum or a rant on yelp.com.  Also, these aren't reliable sources but op-eds.  Opinions aren't facts. See:  WP:NPOV, WP:SOAPBOX.  If it's reinserted, I will bring this attention to higher-ups for their review and predictable action. --ColonelHenry (talk) 13:07, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I refer you to my answer above. There is nothing political about this example of the phrase's usage, it just happens to be by a politician. In the case of Romney's use of "backside", it was an innocent and amusing misunderstanding and says nothing about his politics, competence etc.. The inclusion of the citations is to illustrate usage of the term, the remainder of the material therein is irrelevant. It could have as easily been said by an American of another political stripe, or none at all. Your presumptions about my politics are impertinent and baseless. The only fact in question is his use of the term "backside", which is not in dispute. The relevant matter is in no way down to opinion. To characterise this as NPOV let alone vandalism is ludicrous. Take this to whoever you like; I imagine you will be laughed at. Mutt Lunker (talk) 14:07, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Matter has been brought to admins attention. I've stated the relevant policies and voiced my opinion that it is inappropriate only because it is not neutral. Considering there are other non-political usages of "backside," your continued adding of these particular citations (and the overkill of 4 cites) is obviously insidiously an attempt at a political slight. If you want to discuss a "gaffe" by Mr. Romney, the appropriate place would be on the articles regarding his campaign. An apolitical list should not be turned into a political battleground just because you think biased, blog mentions are "relevant." I will proceed as if this is vandalism because you seem not to heed reference to NPOV and Soapbox.--ColonelHenry (talk) 14:57, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sure we will be interested to hear what a disinterested admin has to say on the subject. PRL42 (talk) 15:04, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

If you're contending this is a matter of neutrality are you seriously saying that the relevant quote ("look out the backside of Ten Downing Street and see the Olympics.") is in dispute and thus a mater of opinion? There is no addressing of his politics or his gaffes here; solely his usage of the term "backside". Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:23, 2 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It's rather hard to keep politics out of something when it refers to what has been said by a politician. PRL42 (talk) 15:04, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Likewise but per my inital post above, dictionary entries from both sides of the pond, as far as I could find, made no mention to the geographical difference of usage. That's why I held off from inserting the example using the Romney example initially, hoping that I'd receive a reply, ideally citing a dictionary entry. By all means add one as I've so far drawn a blank in that regard. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:36, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer it to be sourced to some dictionary or something along those lines like other entries are. But I have no real problem with it currently.  The entry could explain the difference more. <span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"> Hot Stop   15:30, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I'd prefer it if it another example were used--one that wasn't overtly political. These are unreliable opinion blogs, not reliable sources per WP:RS. Using three cites is a political move--overkill when one mention would be sufficient. It's no accident that this one of the few entries to be given an overkill of citations...which enforces the implication that it is more a political statement to be made than an example to be shown.--ColonelHenry (talk) 15:42, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh please can you elaborate how this is a matter of politics? Is there one political view that he said this and another political view that he didn't? If not, politics are irrelevant. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:49, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Good heavens, it's disparaging now is it? Whatever else may be covered in the cited articles, the pertinent matter is one of indisputable fact, not opinion, and what's more of perfectly understandable lack of knowledge of the UK usage of the term. Mildy embarassing for him possibly but hardly disparaging to report his usage thereof. Please elaborate as to what you find disparaging about the straight quotation of someone unknowingly using a term which has a different meaning in the country he is visiting. Also, I fail to see the relevance of being a fan/not being a fan of Romney. Mutt Lunker (talk) 16:20, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you being deliberately obtuse? I've explained it sufficiently, I've pointed out the policies, and I've directed you to find non-political examples. I could not care less about political commentary, or interpretation of Mr. Romney's recent trip to Europe (there are other articles on WP for that). Links to political criticism has nothing to do with pointing out a list of British English vs. American English terms. This article is not the battlefield to apply your political sentiments or those of others (especially bloggers). Leave it out: It's not neutral and this isn't your soapbox. Find non-political, credible, neutral examples. Simple. --ColonelHenry (talk) 16:37, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You still seem to be having great difficulty understanding what these citations are actually for. They are not there to say anything about Romney, they are there to demonstrate the use of the word. The only person who turned this into a battleground was you. Had you not got your panties in such an almighty bunch it's unlikely that anyone would ever even have clicked on the citations. PRL42 (talk) 16:58, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Now that's quite not civil and before you trip yourself up by being "cheeky," I advise you to watch your choice of words. Political sentiments expressed indirectly are still political sentiments and in inappropriate places affect neutrality. Someone would have noticed it, nonetheless. No matter the intent, the citations and interpretation still violate policy because of their inherent political message--and that's an objective assessment--and I will continue to proceed appropriately.--ColonelHenry (talk) 17:14, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

A resolution. Following his statement of disbelief that anyone should take such a matter to the admin noticeboard, User:Uncle G answers my initial question above, that the term is in fact used in the US (despite statements to the contrary, some from Americans, in the articles I cited (so it makes you wonder why on earth Romney said it if it also means posterior to an American)). I have to say I'm somewhat surprised that this is the case since I'd have thought this considerably more pertinent angle to the debate would have surfaced before now if it was a familiar term in the US. In contrast though, it is a genuine argument, so in a puff of validity I will remove the entry altogether. Not a hint of irrelevant and spurious attributions of motive about it either.

...except I can't remove the entry because the page is fully protected now after all the nonsense above. Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:51, 2 August 2012 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, the term is widely used in the US. It is always used as one word when an anatomical reference and two words when referring to the rear of something in general.  While pronounced the same, the context clues should provide clear evidence which is intended by the speaker.  --Nouniquenames (talk) 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, it seems that 'back side' should actually be in the 'List of American words not widely used in the UK'. No one in the UK would refer to the rear of anything inanimate as its 'back side'. PRL42 (talk) 08:24, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Or Lists of words having different meanings in American and British English. Mutt Lunker (talk) 14:50, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Per my statement above the template, and with a rationale entirely unconnected to the objections to the entry's inclusion raised in the talk pages above, I now believe that the entry I placed for the term "backside" should be removed entirely. Could this be facilitated please? Mutt Lunker (talk) 00:09, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The page was protected for a day; now that it is not protected anymore, you are now free to make the edit. FloBo   A boat that can float!  10:19, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Tits up
Tits up is included in this list and also List of U.S. government and military acronyms. How do I reconcile the two? Tommy Pinball (talk) 00:55, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Usage within some clearly defined 'sub-culture' does not imply 'widely used' in the sense of this article. I would suggest that 'widely used' means that either most adults would at least know the expression, or would be able to determine its meaning by asking by asking a very few people. PRL42 (talk) 06:36, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Britishisms catching on in the US
This article lists some Britishisms that have been adopted in America. Although some are only local, it's worth checking. Sophie means wisdom (talk) 12:08, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Overdraft??
Isn't "overdraft" common in the US? I'd certainly call what's described in the article "overdraft", and American banks offer "overdraft protection", etc... M-1 (talk) 06:59, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Home and away
Surely this is the common phrase used in the US? I see it all the time in reference to two teams playing alternate games at each others' venue, and I don't recall seeing "home and home" for such usage. Wschart (talk) 19:44, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

The title of this page is wrong
British English is an American English phrase used to distance England from English. There are no 'British' words and no one speaks 'British English'. The language of the United Kingdom is simply English. Its country of origin American's use of 'British English' makes English phrases and terms seem less canonical and more colloquial. They are not.

Furthermore this distancing of the people of England from their language is only possible through the use of the word British. It would be impossible to call French as spoken in France 'French French' in a similar fashion. Thus in Quebec there is talk of 'French' and 'Canadian French' which leave no doubt as to the language's source and current 'pure' form. Similarly there is 'English' and 'American English'. The use of 'British English' is pejorative and – given when much of what's called 'British English' is as common in Africa, Australia and Sweden as it is in England, Scotland and Wales – incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.246.167 (talk) 02:39, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Cooker?
My husband is from the UK and always uses this term for a stove. Should this be added?

72.199.237.3 (talk) 03:10, 27 April 2013 (UTC) J Hettich

Today's flurry of activity
Does anyone know of a reason for today's great flurry of activity on this article? If it has been prompted by something or has a common source perhaps the highly variable quality and largely unsourced nature of the edits could be mitigated. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:12, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It was linked from BoingBoing. —  Scott  •  talk  14:40, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Aha, nice to know. It also seems to have generated some activity on related articles. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:02, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Nonce used in US
The word nonce (in a context appropriate to the second definition) appears quite frequently without quotation marks or explanation, in the scholarly "The American Language", by H.L, Mencken, edited by Raven I. McDavid, with contributions from David W. Maurer. (Knopf, 1982). This reflects my own experience of hearing it used in recent discussions (in both the U.S. and Canada) of words and language. I would suggest the second definition be removed from the article


 * Agreed. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 12:33, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Words on List which are Common in the US
So far I've only read through the J's, but there are several words which are common which are on the list.

Words which have different meaning the in US and thus should be moved to that list (some of these things have the same meaning in the US and UK, plus an extra meaning in the UK, I'm not 100% sure what list they should be on, but this doesn't seem appropriate since they are widely used words in the US):
 * "Air marshal" is now used to refer to federal agents who fly on board planes to deter terrorists.
 * "Bleeder" is used in the US to mean someone who bleeds or is bleeding or a wound which is bleeding ("this one's a bleeder").
 * Bog is used in the US to mean "swamp".
 * "Bonnet" is a type of hat: Bonnet_(headgear)
 * Boot is a type of footwear.
 * "by-law" is quite commonly used for corporate or organizational rules in the US (but not local laws).
 * "caravan" means a group of vehicles traveling together
 * "char" meaning to burn something until carbonized
 * chemist is the occupation you do if you got a degree in chemistry
 * cowl is a type of hooded robe
 * dibs means calling first rights to something (similar to bagsie in the UK)
 * double parked is used in the same literal sense (parking in two spaces or similar), but not the slang sense
 * flannel is a fabric or a shirt made from the same
 * "flat" is an adjective meaning level
 * "flex" is a verb meaning to bend
 * "flyover" is the event which occurs when you fly over something. Also, used as slang for the middle of the country.
 * "fringe" means the edge or a string fabric thing (not a great definition, I know)
 * "gangway" is a synonym for "gangplank" in the US
 * "gods" are supernatural beings
 * "half" is what you get when you divide something in two
 * "hand brake" is, as is pointed out in the entry itself, what we call the hand-operated brakes on a bicycle
 * "hire" is, again, as noted in the entry itself, used to be "to employ"
 * "hoarding" is the act of collecting many things and refusing to relinquish them
 * "joey" is a baby kangaroo

Words which are used in the US:
 * "Cash machine" is less common than "ATM", but definitely the second most common name for the machines. I hear it all the time.
 * "Coalition" is quite commonly used in the US in the same as in the UK, when two groups form together for common interest. When we're talking about a coalition government, we don't generally omit the word "government" the way the british might because most coalitions in the US are not coalition governments.  I don't know who made up "fusion administration", but a simple Google search will reveal that it's not in common use anywhere.  It's not a term I've ever heard any American use.  When talking about coalition governments in other countries, the term we use is "coalition government".
 * "conservatoire" is spelled "conservatory" in the US, but is otherwise exactly the same word.
 * "Curriculum Vitae" is used very commonly in academia, research-focussed institutions, and some religious organizations in the US. Generally, businesses want resumes, but universities want CVs.
 * "gaol" is just a different way to spell "jail"
 * "grated cheese" is something we say when referring to dry cheese. In the US, only dry cheeses like parmesan are said to be grated.  Softer cheeses like cheddar or mozzarella are shredded.  No one says "shredded parmesan cheese" or "grated mozzarella cheese", it's always "grated parmesan cheese" or "shredded mozzarella cheese"
 * "greasy spoon" We say this in the US. It means the same thing.  It is, in fact, an Americanism that's been picked up in Britain
 * "gunmetal" is mostly used in the color name "gunmetal grey", but that's quite commonly used
 * "handbag" is less common than purse, but still quite commonly used
 * "higgledy-piggledy" is used in the US. One of the four examples of its use in the wikitionary entry is a US president.  It's less common than "messy", but it's used.
 * "home and away" is exactly what we say when describing a series of sporting events played at alternating venues, usually "home and away series". We do not say "home and home".  I've never heard anyone in the US say that and heard "home and away" numerous times.

Also, is it really worth noting that "gaffer tape" is called "gaffers tape" in the US? That seems kind of obvious. And "ha'penny" was in common use in the US until we took them out of circulation. That was, however, in 1851.

Anyway, I'm of a mind to remove everything from the second section ("cash machine" through "home and away") except for "gunmetal" (since that's not commonly used by itself) because I can't see why any of the rest of it should be on this list. Anyone have any objections? KeithyIrwin (talk) 07:49, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Support I think a lot of these words are added by 'English' English speakers who've just never heard them used in the US. PRL42 (talk) 08:58, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Likewise, I'd agree. Go ahead. Mutt Lunker (talk) 09:12, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks good - but I would leave conservatoire and gaol here. Rmhermen (talk) 13:05, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I have no objection to this. --Gourra (talk) 15:48, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I carried out the changes, except that due to the objection, I left conservatoire and gaol in there, but why would you leave them in there? They're just different spellings of the same words.  We haven't included "kerb" or "colour" because they're just different spellings of "curb" and "color".  Why should gaol and conservatoire be included?  I can't see any sense in which they are different words than jail and conservatory which are both commonly used in the US. KeithyIrwin (talk) 07:18, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Because if you read, for example, 'color and colour' phonetically they would be pretty much the same. There is definitely not the same correspondence between gaol and jail (particularly for those for whom English is not their first language). As for 'conservatoire' and 'conservatory' they are definitely not pronounced the same. I would also say that I would not agree that 'conservatoire' is at all common in British English (it is not in the English spelling checker I use). In British English such an establishment is almost universally known as a 'college of music' although 'conservatoire' may be used when referring to a European establishment. PRL42 (talk) 08:28, 30 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I would keep gaol. I get your point that logically it's just a different spelling, but it's so different that it is unrecognizable to many the first time they see it.  It looks like an entirely different word, unlike colour or kerb which are immediately recognizable as simply a variance in spelling. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 14:28, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

ClueBot's action yesterday
I don't know why ClueBot reverted this article yesterday but it was certainly a malfunction because it is intended to auto-revert vandalism, not check articles for accuracy. I must admit I did not check the words reverted as I was correcting the ClueBot malfunction rather than investigating the validity of the entries. It does seem, however, that ClueBot's reversion was correct with reference to the article's content if not to its characterisation of the edits as vandalism. Quite spooky, really. PRL42 (talk) 10:00, 3 May 2013 (UTC)


 * JFTR, the words added, removed by Cluebot, restored by PRL42, and re-removed by Matt Lunker were:


 * counterpane
 * fete
 * forecourt and
 * pressurised


 * I restored counterpane, along with a cite indicating that it is not understood by English speakers from the US. My take is that all the entries should have some citation indicating that they are both common in the UK and uncommon in the US.  Few do, making this page basically a bunch of original research.  I'm not going to add  everywhere, but it would be good to tighten up the cites on this list. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 14:39, 3 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed about how they should be cited and that the article is overwhelmingly OR. Regarding "counterpane" I restored it on the basis that Merriam Webster didn't note it as British/not American but if there's a cn which says otherwise, I'm fine with that. Mutt Lunker (talk) 19:11, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * ...and yes, the ClueBot action was bizarre. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:59, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Archives
This page is not currently auto-archived, with the resulting long list of old discussions (this makes 69 "current" threads). I propose turning on auto-archiving, with a 90 day retention period. Comments or objections? Mr. Swordfish (talk) 14:44, 3 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Mutt Lunker (talk) 19:12, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support PRL42 (talk) 06:44, 4 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Auto archiving has been implemented. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 12:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Minor Disputes
hand brake - I hear that in the US.

The American equivalent of Chav isn't Wigger. It's closer to white trash, but (as with wigger), chavs don't have to be a particular ethnicity. There doesn't seem to be a more direct parallel though. --Spacehedgehog (talk) 01:05, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It might be something akin to "tweaker," though being a tweaker usually involves meth use; or "classless," "lowlife," "riffraff," "losers," "vermin," or "American." Slamorte (talk) 04:24, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't know the British Tiger Nuts but the American Dingleberries refers to the feces, not the toilet paper. Does the British really mean paper?Stan996 (talk) 21:38, 19 September 2009 (UTC)Stan996

I don't know why no one has brought this up before, but the US usage listed for that is wrong. 'Stick shift' is normally used to denote manual transmission vehicles -- e.g., "She used to drive a stick shift, until her husband bought her an automatic." Americans call the device itself the 'gear shift'. Actually, I'm not sure whether it's one or two words. Anyways... 19:02, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, hell, now I'm just reading the page and seeing all kinds of stuff. I'd like to further dispute the place for 'toilet' on this list. On the one hand, it's true that in the UK public bathrooms are nearly exclusively called 'toilets', whereas in the US they're nearly always called 'restrooms', since toilet is considered less formal. However, the title of this list is 'British words not widely used in the United States', and you'd be hard-pressed to find an American who doesn't understand the word 'toilet', whereas few if any might understand most of the other words on this list.

Uni - used much like US 'college': I think this is misleading. I know a lot of kids in the US talk about 'going to college' whether they're at a college or university, but the two words nonetheless have distinct meanings, at least in America. A university offers postgraduate courses, while a college only operates at the undergraduate level. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.159.4 (talk) 19:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, 'joiner' is missing from the list. NEVER hear that one in the US, but I hear it quite commonly in Scotland at least. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.159.4 (talk) 19:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

'Nits' as well. Americans only call them lice, and wouldn't understand you if you told them you had to 'de-nit' your child's hair. 86.131.159.4 (talk) 20:04, 29 February 2008 (UTC) (incidentally this entire section up till now was written by me, and I'm trying to remember to give SineBot a break...)

Actually, Americans understand 'nits' to be lice eggs (as well as typographical problems, as in "i have nearly finished the article, but I have to correct a few nits").


 * Nits are the eggs. The hatched critters are called lice. We (Britons) use the two words interchangeably, but they do mean different things. KillerKat (talk) 00:08, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I have found something that needs correcting and yet being waht I believe you americans call computer retarded. I cannot correct it myself. If anyone who knows how reads this; will they please place the Union Jack above the american flag? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.62.199.62 (talk) 20:54, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

For alight, I'd recommend changing "deboard" to "disembark". I personally feel it's a more common term, although the former is generally understood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.252.23.200 (talk) 19:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm a new user, so apologies for the amateurish nature of this edit! For Doss it states "from docile", I believe this is wrong. Is it not from DoSS (Department of Social Security (Now DWP))? Meaning that it describes people on benefit with nothing to do. User:Kingpants (talk) 01:01, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Aggro is now commonly used in America due to the MMORPG World of Warcraft. It's used in the same manner as described in this article, to mean aggression or aggressive behavior. PlasticSai (talk) 11:00, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd disagree. In WoW, one says "I got aggro" to say "the monster is attacking me"; in the UK, you would rephrase the subject/object to be "He's giving me aggro", when in WoW that means "He is transferring his threat to me", aggro meaning "the amount of threat/hate the object has towards you". It's the same general area, and the word is definitely used more widely now, but it's not the same meaning. --Spacehedgehog (talk) 01:05, 15 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I suspect there are very large numbers of North Americans who say 'nitpicking' without any idea that the 'nit' syllable has any independent meaning in isolation. Varlaam (talk) 20:31, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I hear some people use the term queue. didn't see that one. it's about the same as a line, like for checking out the groceries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.122.61.100 (talk) 01:44, 22 May 2013 (UTC) \


 * The word "queue" is used in the US, although not as frequently as in the UK. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 13:53, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I disagree that "shite" is simply a vulgar variant of "shit" - I've heard "shit" used to refer to things that aren't fecal matter, but I haven't heard this usage for "shite". For example, I might "gather all my shit [stuff] into a bag", but I wouldn't "gather all my shite into a bag". I'm not sure how I'd clarify this - maybe a note to the effect that "shite" usually refers quite literally to faeces? Poker weirdo (talk) 22:22, 23 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Someone can "talk shite", you might say "that singer is shite" or that you "wouldn't eat that shite". Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:16, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Whip-round
Judging from what I read in the citation, I'm guessing that a whip-round in the UK might be seen as taking up a collection, taking donations, or "passing the hat" in the US. LizFL (talk) 00:57, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

oughtn't
Any other Americans ever heard an American use the word "oughtn't"? As in "You oughtn't have said that." If anyone says this, it is definitely "not widely used" per the title of this article. Ghostofnemo (talk) 15:13, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * As mentioned, these ones have. Please stop adding original research. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:16, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=33781 I'll try to find a better one though. Ghostofnemo (talk) 15:28, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * That is nothing remotely approaching a reliable source. Webster very much is. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:34, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Under usage note: http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/ought-to Ghostofnemo (talk) 15:35, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

armalite
Here is a link to a BBC news article which uses the phrase "the armalite and the ballot box". "Armalite" is neither capitalized or explained, suggesting it is a well known and generic phrase for British readers (such as xerox copy or kleenex): http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/northern_ireland/understanding/profiles/gerry_adams.stm Ghostofnemo (talk) 01:15, 16 January 2014 (UTC) If this does refer to a specific type of automatic rifle, it would be called an M-16 or AR-15 in the U.S., but rarely an "Armalite". Ghostofnemo (talk) 01:28, 16 January 2014 (UTC) Here is a U.S. news article where the editor added "rifle" in parens because the term in unfamiliar to American readers: "The IRA's policy was outlined chillingly two years ago by Danny Morrison, the Sinn Fein publicity director. He pointedly asked members at the party's annual conference in Dublin, ''Who really believes that we can win the war through the ballot box? But will anyone here object, if with a ballot paper in this hand and an Armalite (rifle) in this hand, we take power in Ireland?" http://www.csmonitor.com/1983/1221/122146.html Ghostofnemo (talk) 01:33, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Per my edit summary "no, overwhelmingly a specific term for this (American) brand, prob. largely in ref to its use by IRA". The quote "the armalite and the ballot box" is the very one I was alluding to, specific to the context of its use by the IRA. See Armalite and ballot box strategy. The term is not used as a generic term for an automatic weapon outside of this very context.


 * That something is suggested to you is not sufficient for inclusion on Wikipedia as you will often, as in this case, be wrong. You need a reliable reference which states it outright. Please take this on board. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:21, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Here is the Wikipedia article AR-15. Note that the weapon itself is called an AR-15 (or M-16, etc.), not an "armalite", which is not even mentioned as an alternative name in the lead. ArmaLite is the company that originally developed the weapon. This series of weapons are not widely known as "armalites" in the U.S., and many people think the AR stands for "automatic rifle" or "assault rifle" instead of the ArmaLite company, which is known only to gun buffs.Ghostofnemo (talk) 11:41, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It appears the rifle used in Northern Ireland was another AR rifle, the AR-18: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Return+of+the+AR-180.-a0100727290 Note that the guns mentioned in the article are never referred to as "armalites". Ghostofnemo (talk) 11:52, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * And here is a British source that is using the term "Armalite rifle": http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/35082/Armalite-rifle Ghostofnemo (talk) 12:37, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * We are discussing your assertion that "armalite" was "a generic term for a military rifle" in Britain. None of the material you link to in any way states this. The Britannica article is clearly about the actual company and its arms models, not about a generic term and what's more Britannica has been American for over a century. That the term is familiar in Britain in the phrase ""the armalite and the ballot box" is one thing, your assertion is quite another and it is wrong. If you do not have a source specifically stating that "armalite" is "a generic term for a military rifle" in Britain, please drop this. Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:16, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Here is the diff of your most recent deletion: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_British_words_not_widely_used_in_the_United_States&oldid=591044903&diff=prev Note that this edit does not claim that armalite is a generic term for all assault rifles, just a particular series of rifles, which Americans instead refer to by model numbers. Note that the words "armalite" and "armalite rifle" do not appear in Webster's (Merriam-Webster) Dictionary: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/armalite Ghostofnemo (talk) 00:53, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, I noticed you'd changed your line on the term being generic. You use two sources intended to support your assertion, neither of which discuss differences in terminology between the US and UK. If they are intended to support your theory by illustrating usage, that is WP:SYNTH as your assertion states something that the sources do not say. Even if this were allowable, both sources are American so do not even illustrate a difference, let alone state it. Merriam-Webster does not list the term, but neither does Longman, though several British dictionaries do, as do the US English edition of Oxford and, as mentioned, Britannica. The term is thus used, or omitted, in publications from or concerning both varieties of English and none of them discusses difference in terminology. There is no evidence to draw your conclusion, if anything evidence to the contrary, and even if there were, again, to draw a conclusion not stated is WP:SYNTH. Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:58, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * If you noticed the change, why did you misrepresent my edit in your comment above? Oxford Dictionary, published by the Oxford University Press, which is a department of the University of Oxford http://global.oup.com/?cc=jp which is located in England, defines Armalite as "a type of light automatic rifle." http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Armalite But Merriam-Webster, one of the most popular American dictionaries, does not even list the word Armalite http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/armalite How is this synthesis? What original conclusion am I drawing here which is not supported by these sources? The word appears in a British dictionary, but not in an American one. Ideally there would be a reliable source that explicitly says, "The word "armalite" is used to refer to various automatic rifles in the U.K., but in the U.S. these rifles are known by their individual model numbers and the term "armalite" is not widely used." But I doubt there are books or news articles written on this obscure topic. Don't you think that is setting the bar far higher than for the rest of the words in this article? Ghostofnemo (talk) 14:53, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * How about this, from a newspaper in the Philippines: "We use words that sound strange or alien to American English speakers, such as: Armalite -- The M16 is not called the Armalite in say, Columbia, or Turkey, or the United States for that matter. The first variant of the M16, the M16A1, was made by the Armalite company, but nowadays, the famous rifle is being manufactured by Colt. However that doesn’t stop Filipino policemen or soldiers from calling it the Armalite." http://www.sunstar.com.ph/bacolod/lifestyle/2013/09/07/valderrama-philippine-english-301966 Ghostofnemo (talk) 15:49, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Can you specify where the supposed misrepresentation is?


 * Oxford Dictionaries produce a specifically British English dictionary, a specifically US English one and also Spanish, French, German and Italian. Are you seriously suggesting that they are only reliable on the one regarding the language of the country where they are published?


 * Have you read WP:SYNTH? If not, please read it.


 * As mentioned, the article is in dire need of reliable sourcing and if you think any defs are dubious you should remove them. That the rest of the article is very poorly referenced does not mean the bar is lowered to allow anything else in.


 * You are selectively citing British publications which mention the term and American ones which don't while ignoring British ones which don't and American ones which do. Its inclusion in a dictionary of US English and an American encyclopedia, without comment that this is a foreign usage and/or a rare usage in the US, casts serious doubt on your assertion. None of these publications specifically discusses usage of the term in either country.


 * Yes, this is a very obscure topic so its lack of common currency would be another reason why its inclusion would be questionable, even if there were any sources which specifically stated your assertion. Mutt Lunker (talk) 16:16, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

What I'm pointing out is that the term "armalite rifle" appears in the British Oxford Dictionary, but not in the American Merriam-Webster's Dictionary, and I've supplied a news reference explicitly stating that "armalite" is a term not commonly used to refer to these rifles in the U.S. In addition, here are the lyrics to the song "Armalite Rifle" by the "Gang of Four" who are a British band, proving that this term is well known enough in Britain to be used in a song: http://www.metrolyrics.com/armalite-rifle-lyrics-gang-of-four.html Yes, I'm familiar with WP:SYNTH - that's the rule that says you can't mention in an article about Marlboro cigarettes that they are hazardous to your health, because the scientific literature doesn't mention Marlboro cigarettes by name. True synthesis would be if I were arguing that since "armalight rifle" appears in British reference works, but not in some U.S. reference works, that this term refers to a type of rifle that is not available in the U.S. Ghostofnemo (talk) 06:38, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I have patiently addressed what you are pointing out and you appear either to have not read my replies or to be disregarding them:


 * Despite having been pulled up on the matter, you continually and plainly incorrectly portray the Oxford Dictionary of US English as a work on British English because you believe this to further your argument.


 * You continue to argue that inclusion of a term in a British work validates your thesis, as does the lack of inclusion in an American one. As none of these works directly refer to usage in either country, to piece this evidence to form a conclusion is WP:SYNTH, like it or not.


 * Even were that not so, you are being selective in works you refer to to support you POV. You refer to British works which include the term because that suits you, exclude those which don't because that doesn't suit you, include American works which don't and exclude American works which do.


 * How can you justify any of this and why do you continue when it is so transparent? Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:49, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Let's approach this from a different direction, shall we? Are you arguing that British people do not widely refer to these rifles as "armalites", while Americans instead call them AR-15s, M-16s, AR-18s, etc.? Are you suggesting that this is erroneous information? Ghostofnemo (talk) 00:59, 21 January 2014 (UTC) For example, while a speaker of British English might say, "I'm thinking about buying an armalite rifle," an American would NOT say instead, "I'm thinking about buying an AR-15 (or a "Bushmaster" - another (rather Freudian) name for this particular model). Or if you flashed a picture of the object, a Briton would say, "That's an armalite rifle," while an American would NOT say, "That's an M-16." OR, instead, are you arguing that this is an obscure word that doesn't merit inclusion? In that case, the title of this article should be changed to "List of COMMON British words not widely used....." Ghostofnemo (talk) 01:25, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

It is demonstrably used in sources from both countries, but apparently not demonstrably widely in either, or more widely in one or other. This is not "List of words not widely used in Britain that are also not widely used in the United States". Your knowledge of gun culture in the UK (there effectively isn't one) is rather quaintly out of touch as "I'm thinking about buying a spaceship" would be about as likely to be expressed and at least that would be a legal purchase. And your wish to "approach this from a different direction" is in other words to again dodge the issue of your misrepresentation of sources and arbitrary exclusion of ones that contradict you. I have been calling you on this for days, you persist and I am not prepare to engage further. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:10, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Right, well we don't have popular songs like the British one I pointed out above about a particular type of rifle. I can't imagine a song about something obscure, like a type of electric drill, for example. I'm going to christen your repeated deletions of apparently factual material as "reverse original research". I guess I can't expect Wikipedia to serve as an actual reference work that would shed light on confusing terms like this. Ghostofnemo (talk) 11:04, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Trans-Atlantic Usage
We're human beings. We only know so much. An American might not know that a term they might consider exclusively American is also used in the UK (and vice versa).

Can any of us lay claim to absolute knowledge of what terms are and aren't used on both sides of the Atlantic?

How about some patience and tolerance? Make a note that it's used in the UK also and be done with it. WP:GOODFAITH

"America and England are two nations that are divided by a common language." (George Bernard Shaw) -- LizFL (talk) 18:25, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


 * This isn't a free-for-all for editor's opinions/WP:OR. Wikipedia is, fundamentally, based on material in reliable sources. If you don't know about something and can't find a WP:RS, don't add it. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:42, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The thing is, I DID provide a valid reference for "treacle". The board permits shared US/UK references for advert, answerphone, and welly but not for treacle?   You can't have it both ways (not unless you're willing to go through the entire board and remove ALL US/UK words in common usage).
 * I feel as if I'm being singled out. LizFL (talk) 19:01, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Per the section above, "Referencing something which is not pertinent does not somehow give it a place in the article.". I don't understand your references to a board, or in fact the last two sentences of your first paragraph above. Mutt Lunker (talk) 21:36, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

treacle
It has a valid reference. What's the problem?

There is no one single gatekeeper on WP. I am tired of having my edits reverted because in someone else's opinion, they "add nothing to the discussion" (for someone who might be not familiar with its American usage, it does INDEED "add something to the discussion").

I don't care whether or not, in your opinion, a definition "adds something to the discussion" (a ludicrous standard if there ever was one -- what criteria does one use in deciding whether or not something "adds something to the discussion"? It seems that this is ultimately up to your personal opinion.).

This is not your exclusive board. IMO, for the sake of completion, it SHOULD be added, regardless of whether or not it "adds something to the discussion". WP:GOODFAITH. LizFL (talk) 18:12, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


 * As the edit comment of the 9th May says "usage common to both countries (and poor ex. of British speech to use term chiefly Am term "movie"". This is an article on terms used in Britain and not the US so terms used both in Britain and in the US are not pertinent here. It is not about the terms themselves. Neither is it about the difference in usage of terms between the two countries as that is covered in another article (split in two). Referencing something which is not pertinent does not somehow give it a place in the article. I am unclear as to the origin of your repeated quote of the term "add nothing/something to the discussion". I have patiently explained reasons for any alterations or reversions to your edits; I'd ask you to pay heed. I in no way doubt your faith but I would ask you to be more thoughtful about the purpose and subject of this article as you seem to be rather unclear, and your edits are largely poorly considered. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:36, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


 * As the initial post has been edited since my response above, I'll note that the first paragraph originally ended with the accusation "(You'll accept listings from the online Oxford English Dictionary but not from an established American dictionary, Merriam-Webster? How parochial.)", its removal presumably in concession this was not the case. Thanks for this but, for future reference Liz, it's possible to strike through a remark, to keep the original conversation visible and not run the risk of misreperesenting the rest of the conversation. Mutt Lunker (talk) 21:57, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

down
As in Watership Down. Any Brits care to put this on the list? Along with any other landscape words like fen, fell, beck, bight, tarn? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aldebrn (talk • contribs) 13:32, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Aldebrn As in the North and South Downs, yes. Good suggestion. Gregkaye (talk) 03:04, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Mutt Lunker
Whats the matter Mutt don't like it when you know you are in the wrong so you delete peoples posts? My post was no different to other posts here or is this just a personal thing ?

You were the one that could not back up your argument or defend your ludicrous statements about a country you don't even live in. You are not from the UK and you clearly don't know much about the language or dialects. This qualifies you to know more than a native ?

I was posting proof against your weak arguments. You had nothing, not one reference, to back up anything you countered with. As you deleted the post that speaks volumes about your position.

I kept a copy so I can re post, or use as evidence, and I will file a complaint about your immature behavior. I have also keep a record of other posts here to use as evidence against you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.17.69 (talk) 01:38, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Will you stop abusing this talk page with your nonsense. It is for discussing improvements to the article, not for rambling and illogical general discussion: see WP:NOTFORUM. Articles rely on reliable sources, not the personal and usupported theories of editors. You stated your theory that the term "barney" comes from rhyming slang "Barney Rubble", the name of a character in The Flintstones. Clearly a 19th century term (as stated in online, reliable dictionaries, which also state that the origin of the term is unknown) can not originate from a name coined for a fictional character in the 1960s. From your previous posts, I'm now wondering if you were unaware of the existence of the character, or believe bizarrely that the character got his name from your supposedly pre-existing Cockney rhyming slang term. Your illogical and off-topic discussion of the earlier existence of the individual terms "Barney" and "rubble" is of no pertinence as they were not put together until Hanna-Barbera named their caveman. Your personal experience of not having heard the term "barney" used outside London and particularly that "it is not used at all anywhere in Scotland" is blown out of the water by your own quotation from Scottish actress Elaine C. Smith using the term in a Scottish newspaper, the Sunday Mail. It is neither here nor there where an editor lives or originates and apparently indicative of the quality of your research that you repeatedly assert that I am not from the UK. I've no idea where you got that idea and, if it had any relevance, my user page informs you I am Scottish. What's more it seems an odd assertion that where one lives is of relevance, from a user in Wisconsin using American spelling. I removed your thread because it had strayed so far from relating to improvement of the article. Continue in the same vein and I will do so again. Mutt Lunker (talk) 09:41, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Today's edits
There has been a large number of good faith edits to the article today and although a few are pertinent and valid, the majority are superfluous or inaccurate, uncited and some plain wrong. We don’t need a supposedly American synonym for every term listed, particularly if the meaning is clear from the definition given and a lot of the examples given as being the American equivalent are also used in Britain (and at least one said to be also used in Britain is not commonly so). The article is already woefully lacking in citations but this shouldn’t invite further uncited additions. I was going to go through the edits one by one to sort the wheat from the chaff but the changes were too large, with too much chaff, and would take a lot of time for comparatively little of benefit remaining.

A few examples though to illustrate the problems:


 * “round-trip ticket” is not commonly used in Britain and I’m not sure it would be immediately clear it meant “return” to a Brit (could be a sight-seeing tour?)


 * The “rock” entry was more pertinent and focused before (e.g. “rock” and “rock candy” are not the same thing)


 * for “rodgering” (though the entry should probably should be for “to Rodger”), “rozzers”, “shafted”, “shanks pony”, “straight away”, “stroppy”, “throw a wobbly” and many other examples, to a greater or lesser extent, the definitions are clear, synonyms are superfluous and many or most are common to the US and UK, not just US, some are not direct equivalents of the term they are supposed to be illustraing, some synonyms don’t seem particularly notable as a choice


 * if “rota” is in use in the US it shouldn’t be in this list


 * “suss out” and “ferret out” mean different things


 * the explanation that “telly” means “television” requires no elaboration, particularly not by denoting “tv” as a US term when it is common


 * ”toad in the hole” has only distant similarity to a ”corn dog” in ingredients or preparation


 * a “tosser” is not a “beat off”

etc.

Sorry, but I’m going to revert it en masse. Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:57, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

launderette
Both laundromat and launderette are in use in the U.S. Kostaki mou (talk) 16:25, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Move entries
All the entries added to the list over the last long while which belong in List of words having different meanings in British and American English need to move there. There are a quite a few. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:06, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

overdraft
I'm not sure how "overdraft" made it onto this list (and I see that it's been there for at least a good 3-4 years), but the word doesn't merely have "appreciable currency" in the US. "Overdraft Protection" is a credit feature offered for bank accounts with nearly every finanical institution, and both "overdraft" and its adjective form "overdrawn" are in common use. (Interestingly, though, the verb from whence they came — "overdraw" — is largely unknown.) I find it somewhat difficult to believe that "overdraft" is appreciably more common in British English, relative to its already exceedingly common use Stateside. -- FeRD_NYC (talk) 12:29, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Historically this is much more common in the UK than in the US, or in Europe (especially France). British banking was traditionally lenient on overdrafts, instead using them as a source of profit from the interest. British bank accounts have also traditionally not attracted charges for accounts in credit, customers were reluctant to pay for a bank account and overdraft fees were a way of getting some customers to pay.
 * In the US, "kiting checks" is a felony. In France it leads (rapidly) to a status of "interdit bancaire". In the UK, it has long been a standing joke amongst students. Running up an overdraft in the UK led to a cost but very rarely a penalty. Particularly in the '70s and '80s, it was seen pretty much as a form of payday loan (although considerably cheaper than the officially sanctioned payday loans on "legal" loanshark rates of 1500% that are advertised on TV today). Andy Dingley (talk) 12:59, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Andy Dingley, I'll buy that. As you say, historically. However, it seems to me that train has long since sailed, and today "overdraft" falls far, far short of the article's purported topic, "terms not widely used in the United States". Quite simply, the word is widely used on the Western shores of the Atlantic. No? -- FeRD_NYC (talk) 12:50, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Worked on the entry some, but it may just need to be removed. I'm in my late 40s, and it's been called an "overdraft" in the US my entire life.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:08, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Excessive parentheses (round brackets)
This article needs cleanup throughout, a reformatting into a sensible and consistent style and presentation. Parentheses are being used for almost everything, which is a readability problem, defeats the purpose of making anything parenthetical, and is also frequently leading to back-to-back paretheticals – as in "(foo) (bar) (baz)" – which makes it look like it was written by drunks randomly inserting stuff without even reading. It's a complete mess. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:20, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

A similar problem is constant wandering of "parts of speech", with entries about noun and verb usage sometimes starting with the noun (sometimes singular, sometimes plural) but sometimes starting with the base verb, sometimes with an infinitive verb, or sometimes with a derived verb or gerund (an -ing or -ed form). These should all be reduced to shortest constructions, and the fact that they can be used as verbs or as nouns illustrated with examples. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:36, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

the dog's
The usual abbreviation of dog's bollocks (which may or may not be motivated by politesse) is the dog's. Although the mutt's nuts does have some currency, it tends to be rather in "inverted commas", being more comic and less conversational in tone; and hardly euphemistic, since nuts is by no means a more delicate idiom for balls. Note and contrast the very similar-sounding the dog's business (i.e., shit). Nuttyskin (talk) 23:35, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Mutt's nuts may be an Americanism.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:37, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

OR
EACH of these words needs a reference saying that its a word in Brit english not widely used in the US. if we dont have that, it CANT be here, no matter how obvious it is. NO ORIGINaL RESEARCH76.254.34.75 (talk) 00:10, 3 June 2015 (UTC)(mercurywoodrose)


 * Here's a source for some English swear words and their usage (a post below in the comments section states that the Scots use different terms - I don't know about that). It's from the blog Anglophenia produced by BBC America, "How to Swear Like a Brit": http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2015/05/watch-how-to-swear-like-a-brit/. BBC America is a reliable source, I believe. Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 18:02, 14 June 2015 (UTC)


 * By the way, concerning "smeg (vulgarism)head - (slang) idiot; a general term of abuse, from Red Dwarf.", are you aware that the accumulated cells, oils, and glandular secretions found under the male foreskin and female clitoris and vaginal folds is an actual medical term called "smegma"? Although I have no source, this could be the derivation of "smeg" - refers to the secretions under the foreskin, the covering of the penile head, the glans penis. Be on the lookout for such a background for this word. [And what does "Red Dwarf" refer to, other than an astronomical term? There's no explanation.} Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 19:19, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, the earliest recorded usage was by Rob Grant and Doug Naylor.  The OED says: "Popularized by the British television programme Red Dwarf (1988–99)", but is uncommitted on whether or not the word derives from "smegma".  That claim was made by actor Craig Charles in a television interview years after the programme was popular.    D b f i r s   17:19, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * It's the derivation, but, yes, it would need a source if included.  However, it should not be included. It's of the same class of words as frakking, nerf-herder, and beam me up; it's sci-fi insider jargon from a particular work of fiction, that some nerds (like me!) have taken to using in everyday life around other people they think will get the reference.  This is a WP:NOT matter. Unless there's proof of such a term being accepted into everyday English (inclusion in multiple dictionaries) it doesn't belong here. Especially since these shows, films, books, etc., are aren't confined to a particular country. Every sci-fi nerd I know is quite familiar with Red Dwarf, which has been airing on PBS since at least the 1990s. For inclusion on this list, we'd also need evidence that the term is widely used in the UK and not widely used in the US.  "Smeg" isn't widely used anywhere.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:45, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Fair comment, but the word has "made it" here in the UK with an entry in the big OED's 2013 additions. They suggest that the connection with smegma came later. Can you find it in any American dictionary?    D b f i r s   06:32, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

"Citation needed" tag added to "knackered"
Hi guys,

I added a "citation needed" tag to this explanation of the phrase "knackered":


 * (slang) exhausted, broken, originally 'sexually exhausted', derived from an old use of the verb meaning 'to castrate'

I want to see a citation for this because I'm pretty confident that it's actually a reference to knackering - the process where "worn-out" (see Wiktionary) work animals are slaughtered to make use of their carcasses. In fact, the Wikipedia article for Knacker says:


 * A knacker is a person in the trade of rendering animals that have died on farms or are unfit for human consumption, such as horses that can no longer work.[1] This leads to the slang expression "knackered" meaning very tired, or "ready for the knacker's yard"...

It also seems more plausible to me that the use of "knackers" as a sex-related term (meaning "testicles" - e.g., "a swift kick in the knackers") came later, because such animals were typically rendered down for glue, and the knacker's yard was regarded as a glue factory (and it doesn't take much imagination to work out why testicles might be thought of as a glue factory!).

I'll leave this for a little while and see if anyone provides a contrary citation. Otherwise, I will edit it to bring it in line with the other articles, which claim that "knackered" (meaning "tired" in British English) is merely a reference to the knacker's yard (and I will include appropriate citations). Señor Service (talk) 19:42, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The "Origin" section at the Oxford dictionary site states that it is unclear which of these meanings is represented in the verb but notes them both. Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:38, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Mutt - thanks for replying. That's "castration" covered, but I can't see anything on the Oxford page suggesting that "knackered" might (as the article claimed) mean "sexually exhausted"?  Also, if the origin is uncertain, I'm not sure we should word the article as if it is. Señor Service (talk) 22:24, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Didn't clock that the "sexually exhausted" bit was your focus, in which case agreed, no evidence for this so would advocate its removal. Also suggest rewording to include possible "slaughter" origin in addition to "castrate". Mutt Lunker (talk) 00:06, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Knacker[s] has another meaning as a noun, a derogatory slang term for Travellers / the Travelling Folk (see Irish Travellers and Scottish Travellers; sometimes called "Gypsies", though they aren't Romani, and have more in common with the Yenish). This usage of knacker may be primarily Irish (including Northern Irish, which arguably constitutes a subset of British; I'm not sure it should be linguistically rather that politically, and try to steer clear of such debates). I was told (in Ireland) that it's offensive, akin to "the N-word", though I actually heard it pretty frequently. The more common UK slang for them seems to be pikeys / pikies, though gyppos has also occurred (popularized by the film Snatch). The origin of "knackered" in the sense this article is using it as a shortening of "ready for the knacker's yard" and similar phrases. I don't know if the animal rendering occupation is directly connected to the derogatory meaning, but would suspect that low-income and undesirable occupations like that would have been mostly populated by the economic underclass, so it's seems likely. Most of my slang dictionaries are American and not terribly current, so I doubt they'll be much help here. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:33, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The OED mentions three occupations from which the description knackers might derive: saddle and harness makers, buyers of worn-out horses (and other animals), and buyers of worn-out houses or ships.  I haven't heard it used of the Irish, only the in animal sense, though some following this occupation might be from Ireland.  The OED cites knackered from 1886, from the verb meaning "To kill; to castrate; usually in weakened sense, to exhaust, to wear out. So as an imprecation. Frequently as pa. pple. or ppl. a.".    D b f i r s   06:59, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

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Presenter?
Is the UK term "presenter" (a television host) not used in the US? I heard the British presenter Jameela Jamil interviewed by an American recently, and the way he had to ask what a "presenter" is, suggested he didn't know, and didn't expect his audience to know either. --86.174.29.179 (talk) 09:42, 17 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Merriam Webster's definition would support this, though List of words having different meanings in American and British English (M–Z) would be the appropriate article. Mutt Lunker (talk) 09:56, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

jiggery-pokery
The definition given in this article is not the one given in the Colins, Cambridge, Macmillian, Merriam-Webster, and Oxford dictionaries. It was added in this edit and has remained like that ever since. The editor who added it has not edited here in over three years. Could this be a hoax, or is it a simple misunderstanding? Adam9007 (talk) 19:59, 19 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Probably a misunderstanding. I'm surprised that no-one has noticed it before. Would you like to correct the error?   <i style="color: blue;">D</i><i style="color: #0cf;">b</i><i style="color: #4fc;">f</i><i style="color: #6f6;">i</i><i style="color: #4e4;">r</i><i style="color: #4a4">s</i>  20:10, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd like to know how he came to such a misunderstanding. Where could that definition have come from? Five major dictionaries omitting a definition should set alarm bells ringing. I suppose it could be slang or a very obscure meaning, but then at least some dictionaries would list it... Adam9007 (talk) 20:15, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really matter, it's plainly incorrect. Just go ahead and correct it, with the Oxford and Collins refs as they confirm it as a British term, as does the Macmillan entry in the American dictionary version. Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:25, 19 August 2018 (UTC)


 * ...also Longman. Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:31, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Done. Adam9007 (talk) 20:37, 19 August 2018 (UTC)


 * ... as opposed to piggery jokery. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:07, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't know the source from which he drew it, but Russell T. Davies used "jiggery-pokery" in his script for the Doctor Who episode "The End of the World". The term was part of the Doctor's explanation as to how he was able to alter Rose Tyler's cell phone so that she could make and receive calls across space and time. /Bruce/ &#91;aka Slasher&#93; (talk) 00:41, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

bicarbonate of soda
, you added the term bicarbonate of soda to this list, asserting that this was a British-only term and that baking soda is the US equivalent. I reverted this with the edit summary "no, neither correct nor supported by refs; one is chemical name, other the vernacular term & both are employed in US & UK". One ref is simply a reliable dictionary definition, the other is from a tabloid newspaper, explaining the meaning of the two terms. As far as I can tell, and crucially for the entire purpose of this article, neither ref discusses the use of either term as being particular to either the US or UK. You simply reverted this, with no explanation in the edit summary, thus with the direct implication that my edit was vandalous which it clearly was not. What is more, you made no attempt to address the issues I'd raised in the edit summary. Per WP:BRD, you were bold, I reverted, now you either accept this or engage in discussion until consensus is reached. To simply revert without explanation is warring; please do not.

Merriam Webster and Oxford both include both terms and do not indicate that either are used only in one or other country. Again, and per my original edit summary, one is the chemical name, the other a vernacular term and both are employed in the US and UK. They are not appropriate for inclusion here. Mutt Lunker (talk) 14:03, 29 August 2018 (UTC)


 * 'Baking soda' is *currently* an essentially US term as far as I know. 'Bicarbonate of soda' is the old chemical term and is also the current everyday term in the UK. If you try to buy 'baking soda' in the UK, you won't find it. If you read a UK recipe, it'll specify 'bicarbonate of soda' and that's what the supermarket will sell you, just as the grocery store will sell you 'baking soda' on the other side of the Atlantic. If you look in an *old* chemistry text it will (presumably) say 'bicarbonate of soda'.
 * 'Soda' is vernacular, though old-fashioned and terribly ambiguous (and bicarbonate of soda isn't *now* a candidate interpretation) and (according to OED) 'cooking soda' and 'baking soda' are vernacular. Just nobody *now* would know what they meant.
 * I leave the question of sources to you, but people frequently ask for a reminder as to which thing is 'baking soda' if they're using a US recipe. (The candidates are bicarbonate of soda and baking powder, which leads to some disappointing results.)
 * If somebody British says 'soda', the obvious question (as the OED entry suggests) is: which kind? But Na2CO3 wouldn't be on my list of candidates.
 * 'Baking soda' just isn't used in the UK. It always needs translation. I don't care what OED says, but the entry I'm looking at is marked as not fully updated from 1913. That sounds plausible to me. It may well have been vernacular a century ago.
 * 'Bicarb' is widely used colloquial short-hand for bicarbonate of soda. OED's entry for this is from 1972 and has examples of usage from later than the 'soda' 1913 entry. (The earliest quotation is 1922. But the use of 'bicarb' in plays etc. is downright weird if 'bicarbonate of soda' is just the chemical name.)
 * 86.5.90.254 (talk) 04:21, 21 January 2020 (UTC)


 * The issue at contention here is whether the term "bicarbonate of soda" is a "British (term) not widely used in the United States". If it is not, it is not suitable for inclusion here in the first place and secondary matters are neither here nor there.


 * For what it is worth, Chambers, Collins, Merriam Webster, Longman, MacMillan and Oxford/Lexcio's online dictionaries make no mention of a differentiated usage between the UK and the US for the two terms. Only Cambridge does, stating that bicarbonate of soda is "mainly UK" and that in the "US usually baking soda" is employed. Odd that only one notes this and that it's less than emphatic about the split. Mutt Lunker (talk) 12:39, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Aeroplane
Is there some reason why aeroplane hasn't yet been added to the list? On the page Glossary_of_American_terms_not_widely_used_in_the_United_Kingdom, airplane is listed as an Americanism with an explanation that the British term is aeroplane. We can carry that over here, potentially with the same exact sources. Wolfdog (talk) 14:35, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Well part of the problem is that airplane is also in common usage in the UK, and is rapidly gaining ground over aeroplane. <b style="color: Blue;">Canterbury Tail</b> <i style="color: Blue;">talk</i> 14:51, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * And another part is that the correct term, as far as AAIB and CAA are concerned, is (fixed wing) aircraft. "Aeroplane" is considered somewhat archaic. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:56, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Hm: Interesting facts, but I don't think those really apply to my point, which is that we can add "aeroplane" to this list of British terms. (And if anything, ha, Canterbury's argument is more showing why "airplane" should be removed from the other list. Not that I would personally endorse that!) To Martin, though I appreciate the official-level knowledge, I don't think this article is as concerned with technical top-down terms as much as terms actually used by ordinary Americans and Brits. (e.g. Does a 12-year-old Brit point towards the sky and shout "Look! An aircraft!"?) Wolfdog (talk) 15:19, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * True. These things take time, (e.g. does a 12-year-old Brit point towards the letter-box and shout "Look! An aerogram!"?) Martinevans123 (talk) 15:30, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Treble
Per the lede of this article "This is a list of British words not widely used in the United States... Words with specific British English meanings that have different meanings in American and/or additional meanings common to both languages... are to be found at List of words having different meanings in American and British English".

The inclusion of the word "treble" in Merriam-Webster indicates the word's wide use in the US and that it thus has no place in this article. The entry includes the various definitions of "treble", none of which is indicated as having a differential use geographically, in the UK, US or elsewhere. This includes the definition "to increase threefold", which has been added and re-added to this article. "Treble" thus has no place at "List of words having different meanings in American and British English" either.

The Cambridge Dictionary citation added by the user likewise indicates no differential use geographically for the definition '"to increase to three times the size or amount, or to make something do this".

There is no support for the inclusion of this word at either article. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:17, 3 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Obviously, Merriam-Webster's oversight is not being debated here. The Cambridge Dictionary citation is. Cambridge specifically says "mainly UK" for these definitions for "treble": 1) three times the size, 2) a soprano. Indeed, this is a glossary for "British terms not widely used in the United States" i.e., mainly used in the UK. What am I missing? Wolfdog (talk) 14:22, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, this article doesn't seem to require "any & all" definitions of a word for it to be included: air marshal, fiscal, flex, gangway, handbrake and others listed exist in the US, but with different meanings. Wolfdog (talk) 14:29, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Per the wording quoted in my first paragraph, if a word is used in the US with a different meaning, it should be covered there, not here. It's clear. Air marshal is at the other article already, so I'll remove it from here. By all means, write supported further entries there, removing the term from here.
 * That applies to "treble"; any entry should be there, not here. I had searched for the term "British" in the Cambridge entry, hence missing the 2 definitions saying "mainly UK". I think it is significant that Merriam-Webster does not regard these definition as "mainly UK", so it would seem open to question. I now see though that it does regard as "chiefly British": to cause (something) to become three times as great or as many &: to become three times as great or as many, also supported by Longman. You can add to that Collins': In sport... three successes one after the other; similar in Macmillan and Lexico, which also gives: A type of bet in which three selections are made, with any winnings from the first being transferred to the second and then (if successful) to the third. Whatever the case though, the entry for treble shouldn't be here. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:50, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I understand almost everything you're saying, except for Whatever the case though, the entry for treble shouldn't be here. As far as I can see, that's exactly where this should be! THIS is the appropriate location for British usages that are not widely used in the United States, as the title states. Wolfdog (talk) 19:02, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh, I think I see now. By there (it should be covered there), you must mean one of the two Lists of words having different meanings in American and British English pages. Wolfdog (talk) 19:27, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I think I may have altered the order of, or wording in, one of my two paragraphs so that both talk about "there" and "here" without specifying what "there" was any more. Yes, the "different meanings" list would be the article for the entry, not this one. If you go ahead, I hope the additional sources are of use. Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:22, 3 August 2021 (UTC)


 * ...should have checked the rest of my watchlist, shouldn't I. Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:25, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Flob
If "flob" is a British term for spittle it is a comparatively obscure one, listed in only two of six reliable online British English dictionaries I've checked, so could just as well be classed as a British terms not widely used in Britain. At best it may be suitable for inclusion at List of words having different meanings in American and British English (A–L) as there is an entirely distinct definition for the word at Merriam Webster. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:57, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Rock candy
This entry says there's no American equivalent except perhaps candy cane. Who wrote that and how young are they? Have they never gone to a Cracker Barrel restaurant? It's called "penny candy" in the U.S., it goes back over a century and you can definitely still find it in candy stores. It no longer costs a penny like it did in the early 20th century, and it never had the location stamped on it, but it's stick candy. Neither Rock candy nor Penny Candy would be confused for a candy cane. Kelelain (talk) 12:19, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The term rock candy is only familiar to me from the song Big Rock Candy Mountain and, to my knowledge, it is not widely available in the UK, by that name at least. Rock (confectionery) is an entirely different item and, aside from a broadly similar physical form, significant similarities to stick candy are neither evident nor supported. The ingredients of the latter appear to differ slightly, so it seems likely the texture may also differ. Flavours for stick candy are highly assorted, whereas rock is almost universally mint. The lettering in rock is definitive. We'd need a reliable source drawing the comparison before asserting it here. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:23, 17 July 2022 (UTC)