Talk:Glossary of anime and manga/Archive 1

Euphie
While I don't generally object to "original research", I would like to point out that she's a conspicuously bad example of yandere. It draws the sense that anyone can be yandere if they're A) a girl, B) become evil later. Maloncanth 17:15, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Spoilers
Don't you guys think the spoilers need to be tagged or ridden of? User:63.246.50.176 11:25, 25 July 2007
 * I tried to tag them before, but they were later removed under WP:SPOILER, and the examples need a full description since without the description, they're worthless in decribing how they're yandere characters.--  十  八  11:33, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Changing wording
I took the liberty to change "a person is initially cranky and then later turns spoony" (the short description of Tsundere) to "a person is initially combative and then later becomes loving and emotionally vulnerable." The original wording was... not the best. --WonRei 04:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Changes
I've changed the definition of yandere for improved accuracy in the following areas:
 * 1) Removed the sentence connecting yandere to tsundere as the two terms describe character types which are not related; a yandere suffers from a psychological illness, whereas a tsundere just stand-offish and/or cold.
 * 2) Added to the description of a yandere character to include their heightened aggressiveness, presence of psychotic episodes, and traumatic psychological stress in their pasts.

Changed School Days to a visual novel from a video games.

I was going to replace Kotonoha with Yoshimi Satou from Tsuyokiss as Kotonoha is not a yandere character and Yoshimi adds an example of a non-homicdal yandere, but have left the Examples section unchanged out of respect for the author. I advise removing or changing Kotonoha's place in this section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GUTB (talk • contribs) 23:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

3. Just wanted to point out the fact that Yuna from Maburaho isn't Yandere at all. If we're referring to Dark Yuna, that's a clone with an opposite personality. She's not yandere at all. If we're referencing Yuna with her usual reactions towards the other characters affection and advances on her boyfriend, then that's also not yandere at all as it's not like she's threatening their lives or has any intention in killing them. Because of this, I'll be deleting Yuna from the article. (Sorry! But it's true! She's not psycho!) --ChikageFD (talk) 14:02, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Prod
I am against the deletion of either yandere or tsundere as they are relatively important terms found in Category:Anime and manga terminology, and might I add, are some of the few that are actually referenced. Even if the references do come from blogs, tsundere is found in a vast amount of anime/manga series, and while yandere is found not as much, it has gained notability in the past few years based on the recent developments of such characters, which can be viewed in that article. I would recommend that if you want to continue with the proposed deletion, list the articles at WP:AFD so we can start an overall discussion on the issue on an appropriate sub-page, because currently I do not believe there would be enough discussion in just five days time if the templates were kept.--  十  八  01:33, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Source material
Here's something bothering me. The yandere versions of Kaede Fuyou and Kirino Konosaka only exist in the anime adaptations of SHUFFLE! and Gift, respectively. I've already made a mention about the yandere version of Kaede, but I don't know how to add my other point into the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HashiriyaGDB (talk • contribs) 22:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried to clarify that they were anime-only events.--  十  八  23:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

School Days/Shuffle
Are characters from School Days and Shuffle really the best primary examples for this? I mean, I know that the two are pretty popular among "deep" anime fans, but beyond that the two are unknown to "regular" anime fans, and therefore give no help to them in understanding the term. I bring this up because the tsundere article brings up Naru, Kyoko, and Madoka, all of which are helpful and understood by regular people, but referencing such obscure series such as School Days and Shuffle doesn't really help people trying to understand the true nature of Yandere. I can't think of any better examples at the moment, but I thought I should bring it up. Jopojelly (talk) 07:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Kotonoha and Kaede, though, are the two primary examples most often cited by people who are talking about yandere, so they deserve to be here the most I'd say. They're not really that obscure as Shuffle! was recently licensed by FUNimation, and School Days sparked the "NICE BOAT" Internet meme, not to mention its infamous delaying of airing the final episode on TV which sparked the meme itself. Even not taking the anime into account, School Days has been famous from the original game with the three bloody ends the game can end on. Also, it doesn't help that the yandere term isn't really that well known out of "deep" anime fan circles as you put it, though that's one of the reasons which makes writing an article on it difficult. The only other well-known examples of yandere are in Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, but tell me if you come across more less "obscure" series to cite as examples.--  十  八  08:38, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Contradictory Yangire Examples
Hi, I'm translating this article for the Spanish wiki and I noticed a bit of an issue with the Yangire examples.

The Yangire definition states: "while a yangire character is motivated through other characters and will not be connected with emotions of love or attraction.", but in the examples section we find Sekai from school days who, quoting the article, "snaps when Makoto attempts to dump her", so it is related to the main male character and to love/affection feelings.

As you can see, this example is very misleading. --200.127.136.68 (talk) 02:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right. Both Sekai and Hermione were motivated by love, so they're yandere.--  十  八  02:51, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your prompt answer, I'm glad I could help, I wasn't sure I'd grasped the meaning of Yangire right. Since I'm translating this to another wiki, I would like you to explain something to me: the only difference between a Yangire and a Yandere is the motivation?. Since the last has the word "to be sick" and "cut/slice/to Snap" and also lacks the "dere" part, I thought Yangires would not be nice and loving at the begining. It sounded more like, girls who are distant or quiet and one day they become really violent or commit suicide. --200.127.136.68 (talk) 03:35, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Not in my opinion. When I first found out about yangire, I was directed to Rena from Higurashi no Naku Koro ni and Nanoha from Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Strikers (when she nearly kills Tia during an early training session). Both Rena and Nanoha are normally happy and kind to those around them, but can snap out of no where. Rena, especially, is a good example of this since she lured Teppei to the graveyard in Tsumihoroboshi-hen acting all kind and then killed him in cold blood. So I believe yangire can be distant and quiet and then turn violent, but they can also start out kind and sociable.--  十  八  04:31, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I see, so the two diferences would be that Yangire's motivation is not related to love/affection and the change of attitude is much more sudden. --200.127.135.34 (talk) 15:21, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think sudden and unexpected is the key to yangire, along with not being motivated by love/affection.--  十  八  00:36, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Original research
This all appears to be original research. Are there any sources that can back this information up or should we just pitch the whole article? --Kraftlos (talk) 11:31, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think it should be pitched, this seems too extensive to be something pulled out of thin air, but finding some references would probably be a good idea for writers who talk about its usage in and out of Japan. Tyciol (talk) 19:12, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Fatal Attraction for example. 75.157.110.77 (talk) 02:10, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


 * English language sources might be hard. There are no Google Books hits, which is a bad sign; and my CSE results are just stuffed with useless stuff - usually I have to extensively clean up the results, but here I'd be banning domains all the way into the second page before I got anything even close to a RS (japanator.com).
 * I'm sure there are tons of Japanese sources, since it's the obvious dual to tsundere; but they aren't really accessible to us. --Gwern (contribs) 03:21 3 March 2010 (GMT)

Mistake?
"Ultimately, she experienced a psychotic episode where she expressed the desire for Asa's death and tried to kill her with a box cutter" - is there a source on this? I've seen the episodes thrice, finished the game as well as ''Really? Really!'' and the part about the box cutter and attempting to kill NEVER happened. 210.19.191.24 (talk) 06:57, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Amano
For anyone familiar with the Kanon series, I was reading some of the dialogue for the drama CDs and it mentioned that Amano may qualify for Yandere, what would people think of including a mention of her on the page? I am not sure if it is said in humour or not. I must note: she's very different in these than how she is in either anime, it's a very interesting portrayal of her character which is why they are worth watching. Tyciol (talk) 19:12, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I really don't think this list should run out of control with obscure references that may or may not be yandere. I think the couple examples we have is enough.--  十  八  21:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Kanon's not obscure! Although the source of the material which depicts Amano as Yandere (which she totally is, no buts about it) probably is obscure I guess. The drama CD was popular enough for some guys to overlay the recording with pics from the game, even creating original pictures for characters who were not depicted in the game (but were in the anime, so that's the guideline). But it's not like it was officially sold here or anything so you're right. Tyciol (talk) 01:14, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I meant obscure as in I doubt it is common knowledge compared to other yandere, like Kotonoha.--  十  八  02:50, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Tsundere
I listed this page until Tsundere, while Tsundere is prominently featured here (most likely because as per Talk:Tsundere it is inspired by it) Yandere wasn't mentioned there and it is more similar than the other articles in the stock category. I was going to list Tsundere here but realized it was already mentioned a few times throughout the article, so that'd probably be overkill right? Should it be mentioned that prominently? Anyway if it's ever toned down then we should include a 'see also' but for now it doesn't seem necessary to add one. Tyciol (talk) 01:12, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's okay as it is.--  十  八  02:51, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Okami Kakushi
Isuzu (werewolf mode especially) anyone? I mean, the first moment she sees Hiroshi she hugs him, is oblivious to the fact that he finds her creepy, and when she snaps in episodes 1 & 6...  Well, in episode six she holds Hiroshi so tightly his arm starts bleeding, slams him into a metal staircase when he tries to run away, launches into a psychotic fit when Nemuru shows up and tries to gut her with a pair of bowie knives, and when she finally gets that her beloved "Hiro-kun" doesn't feel the same way about her, she attempts suicide by jumping off a roof while bawling her eyes out. More or less textbook? I dunno. Worth mentioning, though. 75.157.110.77 (talk) 12:27, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Article cleaned up
I have removed all Original Reasearch from the article, and restructured it to only what is easily verified. As pointed out further up, there are almost no mentions of the character type in reliable sources, not a good sign considering the length of time the term has been considered to be "common". Please refrain from adding information which is not sourced to reliable sources. Dandy Sephy (talk) 19:12, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Yandere and bipolar disorder
please do not to be confused with the difference between Yandere and bipolar disorder. as we know yandere come from "over affection". Bipolar disorder or manic-depressive disorder, which is also referred to as bipolar affective disorder or manic depression, is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a category of mood disorders defined by the presence of one or more episodes of abnormally elevated energy levels, cognition, and mood with or without one or more depressive episodes. so i'm going to remove Higurashi no naku koro ni from yandere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aldnonymous (talk • contribs) 14:42, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Deletion
This page needs a lot of work cited, and a lot of content removed. A glossary defined by an internet subculture should not be intertwined with a glossary with anime, even if they are related. Bias and in-jokes (I would classify "Glomp" as this) makes this wiki page look both immature and unintelligent. I marked it as unreferenced in hopes that people will heavily revise this page.--Zzzdude (talk) 13:01, 25 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm going to mark this page for deletion. I know a lot of fans may feel threatened, but this is something for a different kind of website. Perhaps a page that explains the language differences between the various audiences of the subject, with reliable sources, that has a link to a glossary that some self-proclaimed "Otaku" can make. This needs to stay out of wikipedia.-Zzzdude (talk) 13:04, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I've removed both the unreferenced tag (because the article does have references) and the prod. The article does not violate any of Wikipeida's policy and the prod nomination itself was nothing more than an WP:IDON'TLIKEIT, which is not an acceptable reason to delete the article. —Farix (t &#124; c) 14:31, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The only reason this page is here is because of WP:ILIKEIT. I stated a lot more than "I don't like it" in my reasons to delete this page. One thing I may have missed; this page is very ambiguous. We could add the entirety of a Japanese diction, and it would still be permissible on this article. We could also do the same with whatever internet memes the community has come up with in the past 10 years. Understanding the anime subculture should not be learned from Wikipedia (at least not the language). You don't see an article of the Something Awful glossary, but they have one on their subforums somewhere. They know it does not belong on Wikipedia, and so should other contributors. It's sad to say that there are only a few people who are not fans of Anime that actually watch the content for Anime and Manga, and everyone should know that this is not a threat. I will revert back to PROD for the time being.-Zzzdude (talk) 04:44, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Granted that the glossary can use some cleanup and more sources. But that is not a reason to delete it. And the glossary doesn't qualify for prod any more as it has already been disputed, three times now. And every time, it was prodded by you or your IP. On top of that, you are a single purpose account, which is usually a sign of a bad faith nomination. —Farix (t &#124; c) 12:52, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

A procedural point: this discussion is irrelevant unless someone is threatening to take it to AfD. An article can be PRODed once, ever. I will repeat that: once. When the first PROD was removed, PROD instantly became irrelevant; since CSD obviously doesn't apply, that means AfD or bust. --Gwern (contribs) 14:09 26 December 2010 (GMT)

Is this article really still here after a year? 219.90.186.229 (talk) 03:46, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Why merge it with anime and manga? Henshin is a word used in live action and tokusatsu as well. Tokusatsu has its own page; why do things have to be lumped together with anime and manga in order to be culturally relevant enough for wikipedia? I don't understand why anyone wants to delete this page or merge it with Japanese cartoons. Are you going to merge karate into anime and manga because it's a Japanese martial art that is sometimes featured in cartoons, or are you going to just dump all Japanese content from the site? -- Dreazie — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dreazie (talk • contribs) 21:36, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

TMI: Yandere and Ahoge
I like this page, it's quite helpful, but while most of the definitions are short and sweet, the Yandere and Ahoge entries have a TON of information. Multiple cites and examples and such. I don't think it needs to be so lengthy.72.160.79.93 (talk) 03:54, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Okama
The definition for okama says "male homosexual", but okamas are not always homosexual. Haruhi's dad from Ouran was called an okama by Haruhi herself and he was bisexual. And Masaru Okura from Atashinchi no Danshi was called an okama on the show and he was heterosexual. "Okama" refers to men who crossdress, wear makeup, talk like a woman, provide comic relief, etc. They could be of any sexual orientation. Do you mind if I change the definition? --Voldemort&#39;s BFF (talk) 02:32, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Flags
Shouldn't flags be added to this list? Along with the recent anime built on the concept of raising/breaking "flags", there's been mention of them in various anime recently, describing events that seem to bring out a change in characters' relationships or open up a possible "route" as "raising a flag". The term derives from visual novels, where in some cases possibilities and destinations were marked with flags for convenience. One of the best examples, which may even be included on its own, is the Death Flag, which refers to various statements, actions and circumstances that effectively mark a character for death in a storyline. This term in particular is used repeatedly in various anime. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.50.240 (talk) 18:17, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Yandere
I actually liked this section. The information content was good, though I think there are excessive examples given. When reading the section, it was clear that some minor edits were required, like removing the excessive use of the semicolon and cleaning up a couple of run-on sentences. I added a number of paragraph markers to improve readability. I didn't really change the content very much and I hope others find this section more readable.

Patrick (talk) 14:41, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Deretsun
Anyone know where Deretsun was supposed to link? I can't find anything earlier that might've been deleted or from 2007 when the redirect was created. Opencooper (talk) 04:39, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Caution about Anime and Philosophy: Wide Eyed Wonder
Just to express caution about using Anime and Philosophy: Wide Eyed Wonder as it uses a number of Wikipedia articles as references. For example, it quoted the old lead of Lolicon word-for-word without a citation (p. 315). This creates circular reference. Because of the problem with circular referencing, the book should not be used as a source to define terms. —Farix (t &#124; c) 20:49, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Obscure terms
I question just how common are the following terms: Dandere, Dojikko, Haraguro, Kūdere, Tsunshun, Yangire, Sōhōkō-ai. I haven't seen this terms in use before and they all probably fall under neologisms. I doubt that they are in common enough use to be encountered by your average reader. Other terms I believe fall into this category are Galge, Kabe-Don, Kyonyū, Majokko, Shudō, Juné, Sōsaku June. Most of these terms are obscure and seem to have been added in order to promote ala, "Hey, I invented this word and I want people to use it". —Farix (t &#124; c) 04:11, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

I also suggest that you notify WikiProject Japan about this discussion. Cause it affects several articles and redirects within its scope. I've heard some of the terms listed above and they don't seem incorrect. Something doesn't have to be within common knowledge or to have a term for it in the English language to be mentioned in an encyclopedia. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:28, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I know I have heard the term Dandere before but that is about it. Dojikko has its own article so that one would have to go through at least an AfD discussion. As for the rest I would look for WP:RS, if you cant find any chances are that the terms are not widely used. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:12, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I can confirm that none of these terms are defined in Anime and Philosophy. What about the The Otaku Encyclopedia? —Farix (t &#124; c) 12:02, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately I have misplaced my book but have been able to find some sources that might be of help. This first one is from wordpress it doesn't look reliable but backs up your idea that it might be a term coined by anime fans. The second source looks more promising with Richard Eisenbeis who I saw has been used for reviews on other articles here on wikipedia.  In an unrelated post I found that dandere is also a French word meaning "Skin soup" (Yum Yum)  More to come... I am leaving for NYC soon so I will be away today, and most of tomorrow but it is worth more investigating. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:25, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Here are some results for Kuudere (Kūdere): A mention in a review by Nick Creamer from ANN, and another from Gia Manry, A mention of the terms by a woman from Georgia Tech , and a mention by Richard Gutierrez from The Fandom Post in a review. There are passing mentions yes but these are WP:RS using this term. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:41, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi. I removed the tag an IP dded to a carefully sourced article and now noticed this discussion. What I know is that that particular term has enough publications that discuss it in details. Therefore it is notable.


 * I can't even tell what "Kabe-Don" means from the given definition! Can someone improve it? Equinox (talk) 06:27, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 16 May 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. SST flyer 08:30, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Glossary of anime and manga → glossary of Japanese media – name should be more inclusive to reflect the broad scope this glossary covers. These terms are also used in Japanese video games, light novels, visual novels, live-action drama, radio broadcasts... Implying that they are just the special area from comics and toons from Japans with this name seems wrong. Ranze (talk) 07:47, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose The proposed title's scope is too broad, we need to narrow it. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:14, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Japanese media is more than just anime and manga. As said, it's too broad a title. Anarchyte   (work  &#124; talk )   04:25, 21 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

copyedit January 2017
My only real note on this copyedit regards the use of italics for foreign words. The guideline MOS:FOREIGNITALIC states: "Wikipedia prefers italics for phrases in other languages and for isolated foreign words that do not yet have everyday use in non-specialized English." Anime and manga are, I believe, accepted loanwords and do not require italics. Most of the other Japanese terms in the article don't yet qualify as common loanwords (in my opinion). With the glossary-style and use of nihongo, foreign terms are clear on those lines. So, ultimately, I only italicized foreign words in the prose. I hope that makes sense. Otherwise, the changes I made were general copyediting. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to post them here. Thanks. - Reidgreg (talk) 21:42, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

New external links
Greetings and felicitations. I added three external links to two different sites, and am hoping that the appropriate DMOZ editor (whom I've E-mailed) will add a category for anime and manga glossaries/dictionaries, so that I can add that link to the article. Please post here if you have any questions or concerns (though a ping would be appreciated ^_^).—DocWatson42 (talk) 00:03, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: The appropriate DMOZ editor has still not responded to my request, and may no longer be active. —DocWatson42 (talk) 01:23, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * And it turns out that DMOZ shut down on March 17, 2017. What now? (Also asked at Wikipedia talk:External links.)—DocWatson42 (talk) 00:56, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Removing mentions of Vocaloids
I think it is in the best interest for this article that "Hatsune Miku and Megurine Luka in the song Scissorsroid" or so be removed as an example. First of all, Vocaloid isn't anime or manga. Even if the Vocaloids are mostly represented with an anime character style / mascot, they themselves aren't an anime. They're voice synthesizers. And I know they are yandere in that song, but, there are literally millions of Vocaloid songs. So I'm going to remove it, there's enough misinformation about the Vocaloid software as is. If you feel like it should stay you are welcome to send me a message. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:B82A:F20:E192:FDC3:AB0:6D28 (talk) 18:14, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, none of them are yandere (I believe Vocaloid3 Mayu is, wasn't it stated? but other than that the point of Vocaloid is vocals and singing, it's called Vocaloid, not Mascotloid). It may just be how Luka and Miku are in the song, but even then, I think it's a bad idea to use vocaloid songs as examples for anime/manga tropes. There's enough people going around misrepresenting the software, we don't need any more. And there are plenty of songs showing yandere, why only that one... why mention a Vocaloid song at all. And if it absolutely needs to be here for some reason, at least mention the producer (ZawazawaP) for making the song. --2602:306:B82A:F20:E192:FDC3:AB0:6D28 (talk) 18:21, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * If you want an example of Yandere, Gasai Yuno from Mirai Nikki fits the bill 181.64.238.200 (talk) 04:51, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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MOS:SINGLE; anchors; glossary formatting
All the cases of  need to change to , per MOS:SINGLE.

Also, most of the terms are not actually anchors, but people keep linking to them with, etc., and various redirects are also doing this (e.g. Ahoge). This can either be fixed manually at each entry, or (much better) just follow the advice of MOS:GLOSSARIES and use template-structured glossary markup, which auto-anchors.

The terms that are not proper names shouldn't be given in upper case (e.g., use ahoge not Ahoge). MOS:GLOSSARIES covers that, too.

It's flat-out wrong (invalid markup) to use  () without a preceding   (); using template-structured glossaries also resolves all of that for you.

All the Japanese terms in Latin script should be wrapped in (no manual italics are needed). Kanji, katakana, and hiragana should be wrapped in or, depending on the needs of the specific case ( has less overhead, when you do not need the special features of ). 50.78.103.6 (talk) 19:13, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


 * , I've lower-cased the terms. The conversion of semi-colon format to a bullet list or something will take some time to do. I don't see the dd / dt tagging you are talking about.  AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 22:41, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Terms removed, consider re-adding these with a source
An IP tagged the article for {Neologism}. The list definition states Note: Words that are used in general (ex: Oniisan, kawaii, senpai) are not included on this list unless a description with a reference for notability can be provided that shows how they relate. I removed the tag. All terms lacking an article or a source have been moved to the list below. If any terms can be well sourced please restore it to the article and strike the item from the list below. Any redirects for these items pointing to the Glossary should probably be nominated for deletion in a month or so if there is no indication that they may be restored to the article.

Ahoge (アホ毛): The term refers to a single strand of hair that sticks out of a character's head and usually indicates that a character is stupid. However, this is not an absolute rule. It differs from antenna hair, in which there are two or more locks of hair sticking up as opposed to one.
 * Character traits
 * Added back with source. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:56, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Chūnibyō (中二病): A character who often pretends to be a made-up character from fantasy such as a vampire or warrior, often imagining themselves to possess magical powers or cursed items. Characters with chūnibyō tend to have a unique manner of speech, dress in gothic clothing, and sometimes wear objects such as bandages or eyepatches to "seal away curses inside their body". The term refers to how children tend to exhibit this behaviour during their second year of middle school, but is often used to describe characters who exhibit these traits regardless of their actual age. An example of these character traits are featured in the series Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions.
 * Under discussion in other thread. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:56, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Dandere (ダンデレ) : A character that is portrayed as antisocial, but eventually changes to display their sweet, romantic, and loving soft side. (see also Tsundere, Yandere and Kuudere)
 * Added back with source. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:56, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Dere Dere (デレデレ): To be "lovestruck" and "lovey dovey". (see also Tsundere and Yandere)

Haraguro (腹黒): A character who has an outward appearance of being amicable and friendly, but is a facade to hide an evil and sadistic side. The term comes from the Japanese word "Haraguroi (腹黒い)", which means "black-hearted; mean; scheming".

Kūdere (クーデレ): A character archetype considered cold-hearted and indifferent, but not showing true colors. See Tsundere.
 * Added back with source. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:56, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Seme (攻め) Uke (受け): Terms used in Boys Love and yaoi to respectively describe the "dominant" and "passive" nature of partners in a homosexual relationship. They may occassionally, but not often, also be used to describe certain lesbian relationships.

Tsunshun (ツンシュン): Almost the same as tsundere, except the character shows depression in addition to coldness and hostility, usually after the latter.

Yandere (ヤンデレ): A Japanese term for a person who is initially loving and caring to someone they like a lot until their romantic love, admiration, and devotion becomes feisty and mentally destructive in nature through either overprotectiveness, violence, brutality or all three. The term is a portmanteau of the words yanderu (病んでる), meaning a mental or emotional illness, and deredere (でれでれ), meaning to show genuinely strong romantic affection. Yandere characters are mentally unstable, incredibly deranged, and use extreme violence and/or brutality as an outlet for their emotions. Yandere are usually, but not always, female characters.

Yangire (ヤンギレ): Refers to a character who is mentally ill and snaps instantly without showing affection for the victim of their outbursts. It is a portmanteau of yandere (see above) and kireru (切れる), meaning to snap or lose one's temper.

Yōni (ヨーニ):Also known as two-way love – when a male or female character is sexually active with both the opposite sex and the same sex, either at the same time or at separate times; indicating bisexual content. Applied when it's not just Yaoi/Yuri only.
 * Note: This was previously sourced to ref name="Steiff 2010", but Google says there are no occurrences of Yoni or Yōni in the book.

Sōhōkō-ai (双方向愛): A term denoting bisexual content, typically for material without explicit sexual content in anime, manga, and related fan fiction. In Japan, the term denotes ephebophilia.
 * Genres

Henshin (変身): "transformation". A phrase used in anime, manga, and tokusatsu dramas for when a character transforms into a superhero.
 * Terms

Majokko (魔女っ子): Literally "witch girl"; this term does not apply to modern magical girl anime.

Manga music video: Abbreviated as MMV, similar to an anime music video (AMV), although instead of clips from anime, panels or pages from at least one manga series are arranged to fit a musical piece playing in the background.

Sōsaku June (創作JUNE): dōjinshi with male homosexual themes for women that are original stories and non-parodic of existing series.

Sub (字幕): Origination from subtitle, when an anime is kept in its original language, but has subtitles.

Alsee (talk) 04:28, 28 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Some of these were added back with source recently., thanks for digging these out. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:56, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

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Henshin
Can someone who is able to please restore Henshin back? I noticed quite a few pages link to there, so I think that term should become top priority to restore. Never mind, I went ahead and delinked/ attempted to replace henshin with the word "transformation" where possible in the pages that link to Henshin. Feel free to nominate that redirect (and the other redirects) for deletion. Sro23 (talk) 13:10, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Henshin is a simple translation of "transformation" and isn't something that is unique to or originated from anime and manga, thus why it was removed. —Farix (t &#124; c) 20:54, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Chūnibyō term revisit
So is Chūnibyō a term that has come out of anime and manga culture or something that has come out of Japanese culture in general like hikkikomori and NEET? Is Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions the first time the term has really been used extensively in a Wikipedia-notable fashion? Is it likened to senioritis? AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 19:15, 25 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I've removed this from the glossary. The only source provided was from pixiv which used Wikipedia which is circular. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:11, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I added Chūnibyō before I spotted the topic here. It has an article now, so I assume there won't be any objections to it being on the list? Alsee (talk) 06:51, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * , my original question still stands. Was it a popular term prior to anime/manga, or did it become popular because of that Love, Chunibyo, and other Delusions show? I was thinking whether it had a major jump like kabedon because of L DK.  AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:50, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I have no idea, and I'm happy to defer to whatever anyone else wants to do. Just note that there are approximately five articles currently linking to Chūnibyō, all using the word in an Anime context. If the listing is removed here then something should be done at those articles, even if it's just to de-link the word. Although that may leave readers confused if those articles aren't clarified somehow. Alsee (talk) 21:38, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

"Toddlercon"
Okay so I did a search on the person's name, the facts do check out. Daniel Velasco is from the Chicago School of Professional Psychology. What really bothers me though is if this genre were "emerging" in Japan then where are the sources? Could this word have been made up by Daniel? I tried to find the kanji for Toddlercon but couldn't. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:42, 18 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Here are more sources: VII CONGRESS OF PORTUGUESE Sociology and an academic paper from a Mexican university. A Wikipedia page was created for Toddlerkon in 2005, and the Google Trends graph shows the term tracing back to at least 2004. (The graph crashes in 2014 when Google massively deranked and excluded "undesirable" pages.) You can add additional terms on the Trends page for comparison - you can see that Toddlercon blows away Gei comi, Shojo-ai / Shōjo-ai, Bakunyu / Bakunyū, Dojikko, Kemonomimi, Aniparo, and probably a number of other terms in the glossary. It even surpasses Catgirl starting in 2012. And if you really want to know if it's "made up" you can type the term in at Bing.com image search with "Safe Search" off. However considering the images that will come up, you may not want to do that.


 * An article on it was deleted recently because the content was unsourced poor quality original research. There were a bunch of Manga-series titles listed in there, I have a vague recollection that they were English translations of Japanese titles. There are few Reliable Sources covering the subject for obvious reasons. Alsee (talk) 10:07, 18 April 2016 (UTC)


 * No I don't think it is made up now, but I get the feeling that this is a western term due to a lack of Japanese sources. There is a complex for almost everything in the world, this being a genre though in Japanese media is another story. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

AngusWOOF regarding your recently repeated deletion and your edit summary explanation covered by other genres, not distinctly anime and manga: Perhaps you don't recall, but you have previously seen three Google Scholar sources all explicitly stating the term is a category of Anime/Manga/Hentai. I'll bump that up to five Google Scholar results now, all explicitly stating the term as a category of Anime/Manga/Hentai: Alsee (talk) 14:03, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) European Scientific Journal
 * 2) VII CONGRESS OF PORTUGUESE Sociology (Link isn't currently working, but multiple editors confirmed the source when it was originally posted.)
 * 3) Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico
 * 4) Professor do Instituto de Ciências Sociais da Universidade Federal de Alagoas, Latitude, Vol. 07, nº 1, pp. 77-107, 2013
 * 5) Universidade Federal de Goiás


 * ESJ as listed above does not use this term. Also these are described as derived from lolicon and hentai, so it fits more of an anything "-con" (brocon, siscon) or anything "-dere" (kuudere) terms. If anything, maybe there should be a suffix listing as those prompt multiple phrases. I just don't see the weight of that particular term compared to other anime and manga ones, perhaps for the hentai glossary as it's grouped there with tentacles and BDSM according to your sources provided. It's also curious that they're coming from Mexico and Brazil, but that's probably the North American bias against having the term propagate there in comparisons to the other -cons, at least in English. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 14:57, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I had to use Google Translate on Spanish and Portuguese, but the translation was quite clear.
 * European Scientific Journal defines it as manga and explicitly discusses it in Japan: Lolicon manga, or graphic comic books, are banned in many countries, and with the emergence of toddlercon (manga depicting toddler-aged children in sexual situations), there has been a push on the community and political levels to ban lolicon from comic book stores in Japan.
 * II CONGRESS OF PORTUGUESE Sociology: I can't get the text at the moment, but was used as a ref in the article and it stuck for two years exactly because it provided WP:Verification that the term belongs in this list.
 * Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico, in a section titled "Hentai" and discussing the "erotic culture there is in Japan", defines toddlercon as similar to lolicon except for the age. And it lists lolicon, toddlercon, shota consecutively.
 * Universidade Federal de Alagoas names Japanese comics as the exact topic in the title: The homoaffective diversity in the Japanese comics: sex education, pornography or erotic market? It defines ''Mangas are produced with erotic stories whose protagonists are children up to the age of 16, who engage in sexually adults. These comics when they involve girls are called Lolicon (Rorikon), abbreviation for Lolita Complex (Lolita Complex). When are young boys, they are called Shotacon. To the amazement of the West, there are still stories on the market that involve babies in erotic situations (Toddlercon). (Footnote 5: Japanese law does not understand these manga as child pornography or practice that will stimulate pedophilia, considered crimes in the country, since they are pictures with real children. Thus, they are not seen as "Real" but rather fictional.)
 * Universidade Federal de Goiás explicitly states the subject is anime in the title PASSIONS AND MYTHICAL TRACES IN THE SPEECH OF ANIME: AN ANALYSIS IN DEATH NOTE, and states states that anime is Japanese manga in the abstract ABSTRACT: Anime are Japanese narratives that mix the art of manga... etc. The relevant section then defines each of toddlercon, futanari, yaoi, yuri, and guro as subgenres of Hentai: The last genre we are going to address is the Hentai (へ ん た い) that literally means "Any sexually explicit entertainment, such as pornography or perversion" and never a sexual activity considered common. Also titled 18-kin (prohibited for under 18's) these single animals have as a rule not exposed by the pubic, because "according to the Japanese, we must have a limit, a point of repression for anything". Few titles of commercial expression in the West, being in charge of the Internet dissemination, which also has some branches considered subgenres: the exposure abuses or rape in children up to six years of age (toddlercon), the relationship between hermaphrodites (futanari), gay (yaoi), lesbian (yuri), and involving violence (guro).
 * Furthermore, 1,762 people have arrived at Glossary_of_anime_and_manga because they were searching for Toddlercon on Wikipedia. Based on a sampling of 20 random articles, it looks like the search traffic for Toddlercon ranks in the top 1/3 of all articles we have. Alsee (talk) 19:45, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

since they recently re-added it - I think the real question here is: is this term actually relevant in a glossary of general anime/manga terms? It seems like an incredibly niche genre that is mentioned more as a curiosity and an extreme example of perversion than as any part of a broader consumer market. It's probable that including it would be WP:UNDUE.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:04, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
 * after a bit of digging into japanese and English websites for toddlerkon, ペド、ベビーコン、トドラーコン, etc., I think I agree it's fringe and not worthy of inclusion. The ja-wiki page was deleted.  Toddlerkon does redirect here so we'd need to AfD it.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 20:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It would probably easily be deleted at RfD if the term was removed from the page.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 21:23, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

-dere terms
I removed some of the more recent -dere terms as they did not have any RS sourcing and it's not clear whether they were made up specifically to target anime/manga, and whether it should be more of a snowclone / standalone suffix page as with -stan AngusW🐶🐶F  ( bark  •  sniff ) 21:28, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

how is weeb derogatory Xiphactinus A (talk) 20:13, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Ahoge and cowlick
As the inclusion might be questioned, I wanted to ask about including the parenthetical (see also Cowlick), as the two terms relate to the same phenomenon. &#8212;&#160;CJDOS,&#160;Sheridan,&#160;OR&#160;(talk) 03:28, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

japanesewithanime.com - user-generated content
https://www.japanesewithanime.com/ is a blog and thus WP:USERGENERATED. Does anyone had a compelling reason why we should accept it as a source? Barring that, or any actual consensus, we should avoid using it on this page (or any other, for that matter). NekoKatsun (nyaa) 15:17, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * This is not user generated in that context. This isn't a group blog. This isn't a poll. Please reread WP:USERGENERATED. SlySneakyFox (talk) 22:18, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * From Japanese with Anime: "Japanese with Anime is a blog about learning Japanese written by someone who's learning Japanese to read manga and watch anime in Japanese" (emphasis mine). From the User Generated policy: "Content from websites whose content is largely user-generated is generally unacceptable. Sites with user-generated content include personal websites, personal and group blogs (excluding newspaper and magazine blogs), content farms, Internet forums, social media sites, video and image hosting services, most wikis, and other collaboratively created websites" (emphasis mine again). It literally calls itself a blog, and blogs are expressly not considered reliable. Perhaps you should reread and familiarize yourself with source reliability. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 22:29, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Missed that part. Thanks for informing me. However please note this is not related with trap with otokonoko. That is a different topic. SlySneakyFox (talk) 22:35, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

The English version being "trap"
Trap and otokonoko have the same definition. It is basically the english version. Also, to get it out of the way do you agree trap is a character trait? What exactly are you challenging? SlySneakyFox (talk) 22:38, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * This is Wikipedia. It doesn't matter what you or I define "otokonoko" or "trap" as. We need a reliable source linking the two terms, or it becomes WP:OR at worst and WP:SYNTH at best, neither of which is acceptable in article space. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 22:40, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * We are not defining and sources define them. They have the same definition. And both are used in anime which is supported by their sources. "trap n. A type of character common to anime; one who is identified as male, but who is depicted as quite beautiful and feminine." It literally says "A type of character." SlySneakyFox (talk) 22:46, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello, chiming into this discussion. Has anyone raised this source, yet? It directly links the term "otokonoko" to "trap", and is published in First Monday, a peer-reviewed journal from the University of Illinois at Chicago: It does so in discussion of character cosplay instead of characters in anime and manga specifically, but that's arguably enough to include it on this page. — Goszei (talk) 22:48, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Looks like a credible enough source to link them. SlySneakyFox (talk) 22:54, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Aha, thank you! I don't believe this had been raised yet, this is a new source to me. The pertinent quote in this source is In some videos, both the performer and viewers make efforts not to identify the gender of the performer, playfully invoking the transgender category of ‘girl–boy’ otokonoko in the subculture (‘traps’). This is, I believe, the first reliable source I've seen that links the two terms. Given that this is the anime and manga glossary, I would prefer a source linking the terms in specifically that sphere, but this is an excellent start. Thank you! NekoKatsun (nyaa) 22:55, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

How about Jisho. https://jisho.org/search/trap here it gives 男の娘 as a translation. Do you have a problem with this? SlySneakyFox (talk) 22:57, 3 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Dictionaries are not great for subcultural terms, in general, and I do not trust them for that purpose. Jisho is particularly suspect because it is an amateur project instead of a "professional" Japanese-English dictionary. Addendum: to comment on the "Japanese with Anime" blog above, that should never be used as a ref because it is a self-published work by an anonymous person. — Goszei (talk) 23:04, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

One last thing that wasn't answered in the first message. Is there any disagreements with moving trap to Character traits? SlySneakyFox (talk) 23:15, 3 August 2021 (UTC)


 * I favor mentioning "trap" in this article only within the "otokonoko" section within "Character traits". Kroon 2010 is explicitly defining a character archetype, and what he says fits cleanly within the "culturally feminine gender expression" clause of the "otokonoko" section. It doesn't cover the "usually through cross-dressing or crossplay" clause that Ashcraft 2011 and Nozawa 2012 corroborate, but it does not need to because that is qualified by "usually", so the definitions are still consistent. Obviously Kroon doesn't come out and say "otokonoko", but I think it is arguably within our encyclopedic liberties to cite him for the "May be referred to as a 'trap sentence since I think it is plain he is talking about the same thing. — Goszei (talk) 23:23, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * While I appreciate the response this doesn't answer my question. SlySneakyFox (talk) 23:48, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I made an edit demonstrating what I think is best. — Goszei (talk) 23:50, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I knew what you meant. I disagree with your edit. Unless we change Otokonoko to otokonoko/trap SlySneakyFox (talk) 23:54, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree with SlySneakyFox on this one, the way the current definition was written is faulty and shouldn't be taken as an exclusion/different concepts. 8ya (talk • contribs) 22:23, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

I have re-added the content of "trap" with an additional source. SlySneakyFox (talk) 20:28, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

People can make edits without a consensus. This happens all the time and is part of the "be bold." A consensus is only needed when there's disagreement. Are you actually disagreeing with anything? And if so please indicate in the edit summary in the future. SlySneakyFox (talk) 20:56, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I did. You're working with a misunderstanding of the source. I disagree with "trap" being used in this article at all, and am willing to compromise with the article as it stands. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 20:59, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Then I recommend trying for a clearer wording in the edit summary since it appeared your only disagreement was there wasn't a consensus. Why do you disagree with trap and my edit? SlySneakyFox (talk) 21:15, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * What I said was that your addition was "based on a misunderstanding of the source (adding more specific comments to the Otokonoko talk page)". I then posted that "Not sure if you speak Japanese, but I do, and the meaning doesn't quite come through via Google - the article is pointing out that although it's called "Trap Shrine", the game's content actually deals with otokonoko (the article differentiates between them)." What portion of this is unclear to you? I'd be happy to clarify further. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 21:17, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The part where I said "I'm using DeepL. "The English title of the game is 'Trap Shrine', but 'Trap' is a well-known slang term for a 'man's daughter' used by overseas anime lovers and sometimes gamers as well." seems quite clear." Where is it in disagreement or does not support the claim that otokonoko may be referred to as a "trap"? SlySneakyFox (talk) 21:26, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * So... the part that wasn't clear to you was the part you added AFTER I said the above. Please stop moving goalposts. DeepL translates the site similarly to Google - note the word "but". The article is explaining that the game is called "Trap Shrine" but that it deals with otokonoko. I can get into more details with the original Japanese grammar, if you'd like. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 21:30, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes go ahead. "'Trap' is a well-known slang term for a 'man's daughter'" Seems extremely clear to me. The context of the "but" seems to be that trap is actually slang. Remember trap is a formal word so fact that it was slang had to be cleared to the readers. SlySneakyFox (talk) 21:33, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Not quite understanding the distinction being drawn here with "formal word". Do we simply mean that "trap" has a usual meaning of "a device which entraps or ensnares" (mouse trap, bear trap, etc)? - Ryk72 talk 23:47, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes. For example, if a book was translated to "Shut Your Trap" it would say "but trap is a well-known slang term for a 'mouth'..." This is how I read it at least. I'll be happy to read the more detailed grammar the other user has offered. SlySneakyFox (talk) 11:18, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Apart from the translation issues mentioned above, the Gamespark.jp source is a press release. As is the ITmedia.co.jp source. - Ryk72 talk 23:34, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * To be clear does that mean you consider it reliable? SlySneakyFox (talk) 23:42, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It does not. - Ryk72 talk 23:47, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you consider it unreliable? SlySneakyFox (talk) 23:49, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * In the context of sources, the opposite of "reliable" is "not reliable". - Ryk72 talk 23:53, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay. Do you consider these sources to be "not reliable?" SlySneakyFox (talk) 23:57, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Broad consensus is that press releases are generally not reliable. Broad consensus is also that passing mentions are generally not reliable. - Ryk72 talk 23:59, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay but what about you? SlySneakyFox (talk) 00:02, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * 無 - Ryk72 talk 00:14, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * So, no opinion? SlySneakyFox (talk) 00:19, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, isn't kotaku a press release as well? SlySneakyFox (talk) 00:35, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Grammar clarification (seems a bit pointless now with the unreliability of the source, but I'm a bit of a language nerd, so here it is anyways)! Using your "Shut Your Trap" example above, generally speaking a writer would not continue with "but trap is a well-known slang term for mouth". The rest of the sentence would read something like "in English, "trap" means "mouth"". The Japanese language carries a lot of implication with it, and DeepL has given you a literal translation, which is the issue here. Using "but" in Japanese adds a silent reason to the sentence, so "The English title of the game is 'Trap Shrine', but 'Trap' is a well-known slang term for a 'man's daughter' used by overseas anime lovers and sometimes gamers as well" would be more accurately interpreted as "The English title of the game is 'Trap Shrine', but this is not accurate because overseas fans use 'trap' as slang for 'otokonoko' and they are wrong."


 * Normally I'd use a simpler sentence to get some of the intricacies of the "ga" particle across, but hopefully this clears some things up. The article is explaining why it's called "Trap Shrine" instead of the more accurate "Otokonoko Shrine", and implies that it's to appeal to foreign fans who use the wrong term. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 16:11, 25 August 2021 (UTC)