Talk:Glywysing

Glywysing and Morgannwg: not the same thing
Glywysing and Morgannwg are not one and the same thing. Only just noticed the anomaly after correcting the infobox and then seeing the heading 'Kingdom of Morgannwg'. That term redirects to here. Their relationship is complicated and the limited sources don't help, but Glywysing and the Kingdom of Morgannwg should have seperate articles. Too late to contemplate doing that tonight though! Enaidmawr (talk) 00:04, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree. The article says "the kingdom [Glywysing] merged with Gwent and changed its name to Morgannwg or Gwlad Morgan". Since Glywysing+Gwent=Morgannwg but Glywysing and Morgannwg were also divided at different times, this article should be split in two or, at a minimum, the title of this entry should change to "Glywysing and Morgannwg" for consistency. There are even two boxes on the right, one for Glywysing and one for Morgannwg.


 * ICE77 (talk) 05:51, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Chadwick et al
Celt and Saxon: Studies in the Early British Border. By NORA K. CHADWICK and others. New York: Cambridge University Press, 1963 p.302 "Many of the names of the principalities, cantrefs and commotes of Wales contained a personal name; and more were supposed to contain such than really did. These were clearly the names of historical characters, though often we know nothing about them. A favourite line of speculation was to make the eponyms of a group of these the sons of a famous ruler. The most famous, and perhaps the earliest of these legends, made the nine sons of Cunedda give their names to Ceredigion, Meirionydd, Edeyrnion and other districts in North and Central Wales. In a similar way, the opening of Lifris's Life gave Glywys ten sons, of whom nine gave their names to principalities or cantrefs, and married Gwynllyw to a daughter of the eponym of Brycheiniog. Brychan's twelve sons and twenty-four daughters were not mentioned by Lifris, and may be a later development. This description of the family of Glywys undoubtedly enshrines early material. By the eleventh century the name Glywysing had been replaced by Morgannwg; and the kings of Morgannwg did not trace their ancestry from Glywys or any member of his family. This fact, which underlines the antiquity of some of Lifris's material, also casts grave doubts on whether Glywys was really the founder of a family remembered in early tradition at all. Like Cunedda, Glywys may well be historical; but his relationship to other eponyms was probably the product of later inference."

So how many cantrefi? Dougweller (talk) 09:53, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

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 * Arfbais Morgannwg arms.png