Talk:Gmail/Archive 3

Google Mail/Gmail
Does anyone have a clue how it can tell when to say Gmail and when to say Google Mail? I have not told it where I live but it worked it out, so I think that it is done by IP addresses, but this is just guesswork. Shen 09:20, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's done by IP. Right now both web addresses and both email address work, but may not forever. -- Finlay McWalter |  Talk 09:53, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Gmail wiki
What happened to http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/Fuzzy_addresses ? Ah well, I guess I'll check the other Gmail wiki ( http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Gmail ). --DavidCary 19:24, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Removed a NY Times link
I took out a link to a NY Times article that is no longer freely accessable. If anyone cares to put it back in, here's what it was linked as:

A NY Times article on Yahoo! Mail's response to Gmail (membership required; free)

--Starwiz 23:47, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Beta
It seems like Gmail is not at beta anymore... o_O

The title image still says beta, but you don't need invitations, although it's still a little bit complicated to get an account through a mobile

I mean, I haven't read any news that gmail isn't in beta anymore, but it does seems like they're going to announce very soon. I can't find the word "beta" in any place of google help anymore, and there is that guy's edit on the article stating it's not on beta anymore.

In fact, for the last 10 minutes, I couldn't find more information about gmail being beta anywhere else beside old sites and the image

Anyone knows better?

--Cawas 17:23, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

"Gmail Opens Up in More Ways Than One"
Interesting feature. It seems to be something I don't have though. Anyone want to add information about it? EliasAlucard|Talk 14:43, 29 Aug, 2005 (UTC)

I miss your point. What do you mean? --Cawas 13:43, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Oh, how stupid can I be? I haven't noticed that "hidden" (to my eye) link.

Yeah, I've being using my company e-mail on gmail account, instead of the companies itself, since that feature came out. I like to call it "Multiple From" or the way google call it: Custom From Address as you can see in Gmail. It's a great feature. But, once again, I miss even more features! :P

--Cawas 19:36, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Screenshots


What is everyone's opinion on the screenshots on this article? Most of the screenshots are unedited, direct screenshots of the user's entire screen including the entire browser window, taskbar and applications running on the user's machine. I think that it isn't relevant to the article what operating system people are using and I feel like people may be using this article to show off what operating system/apps/themes they're using. If there's something special about using a particular OS or browser with Gmail then maybe an entire screenshot of the browser is warrented, otherwise it should just be only the webpage itself.

I'd like to see all the screenshots on this page edit and reupload so that they only show relevant information (ie. anything showing the browser and OS removed).

Ratify 21:51, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Every screenshot on Wikipedia is like this. Go check Firefox screenshots, or Thunderbird screenshots and Internet Explorer screenshot, and you'll see that they're all the same. Why should Gmail be different? Why are you being disturbed by them showing the browser anyway? It's good that they show the browser, because that shows how Gmail is rendered in different browsers, because it's not the same fonts in every browser. Oh and by the way, why are you just editing my screenshots? I haven't seen ny removing of the explanatory text on the other screenshots, and seeing them cropped. EliasAlucard|Talk 15:25, 10 Dec, 2005 (UTC)

I like your idea!

But I really dunno how to deal with wiki images yet. And, somehow, your screenshots were "interfering" on the other topics, so I just moved the topic to the bottom, if you don't mind. :P

Would you be nice and give me a nice link so I can learn better and quit being such a newbie on this whole wiki images subject? o_O

There might be some commands (that I will look into) to make those images you tried to display better, or maybe "non-topic invasive"... Altho I can figure out those commands by myself, I want to know further and deeper than that.

Thanks for understanding. ^_^

--Cawas 19:52, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I think we should include the browser but not the operating system. It's overly cumbersome to croup out the browser window (and too easy to accidentally crop out some of the web page). As has been stated, the browser is somewhat relevant. On some systems (Windows, Gnome, and KDE at least) alt + print scrn works to just take a screenshot of the active program e.g. just the browser window. There's more information for macs and such at screenshot. Theshibboleth 01:59, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Outgoing Message Email Addresses
I got my account around May 2004, and to tell you the truth I have been able to change my outgoing email address since at least Summer 2004. Gmail has been known to roll out features to different users at different times, so perhaps the article (and specifically this part of it, as I actually have evidence) shoule reflect this. The dropdown box present in the screenshot, however, is a more recent addition.

-- 2005-12-01 21:54:54 70.179.116.186

It looks like you meant to answer one of the topics that already talks about that feature you've mentioned (like )... But at same time none of them brings such a sceenshot as you mention.

Anyway, I never knew that... That "Gmail has been known to roll out features to different users at different times" is big news to me. Yet, it seems to me that it has nothing to do with "Outgoing Message Email Address". But it's still something I can use regardless.

Thanks for the info! :P

Maybe it's something we (as in "we, wikipedians"), or someone, should add to the article. Maybe you should do it.

--Cacumer 09:26, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Keeping Email after deleted....
It says in the article "Gmail will keep all email for "some time" even if it has been deleted or the account terminated" and that this has provoked criticism. Unless I am mistaken most email servers do this. They keep emails archived, there are cases where they have been used in businesses to prove that employees are embezzling or planning something illegal. I think that if someone could verify that this is common practice the paragraph could have an addition to it stating that this is not unusual for an email provider. Also the privacy issues that I have heard of have never included this. The only privacy issues that I have heard of were the ads that search for keywords in your mail. I have never heard of the google does not delete before this, I think that might be a small biased view of gmail.

Gmail blacklisted
I am not an expert but I got the following message returned when sending rom my Gmail account:

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

xxx.yyy@hispeed.ch

Technical details of permanent failure: PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 9): 554 5.7.1 Rejected 64.233.182.207 is blacklisted in dnsbl.sorbs.net. Details http://www.hispeed.ch/blacklist

.... 

When I enter 64.233.182.207 on dnsbl.sorbs.net, nproxy.gmail.com seems to be blacklisted since 19 december 2005.

Has anybod else experience with this problem??

Donar Reiskoffer 14:13, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

never happened to me, but i don't often send emails to china.--IAMTHEPEOPLESCHAMP 05:37, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


 * '.ch' is Switzerland. If you enter 64.233.182.207 on dnsbl.sorbs.net it really shows that the problem lies with the Gmail-proxy.  Donar Reiskoffer 07:42, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

well, still.... i've never sent email to switzerland... etc...--IAMTHEPEOPLESCHAMP 22:22, 11 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi, Switzerland, China, whatever. It doesn't matter SORBS is a list of blackmailed IPs considered to be source of SPAM. GMail is in the list but this doesn't mean that GMail is wrong: it could also be an error on SORBS side ... Matteo 22:53, 11 January 2006 (UTC) in all places: labels (inbox is a label), filters, searching and contacts. There are quite a few features that works for labels only, and most don't work for contacts.


 * Maybe this was the reason: wikinews article--Donar Reiskoffer 16:14, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I have some email being blocked (I'm in Canada emailing to Canada). Here is something from the Google Help Center about it. Chiok 04:32, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Rate of Megabyte Storage down?
In the article under the two gegs of storage section it says that the rate of storage increase has decreased from 134 kb per hour to 20 kb per hour. However, my own tests from viewing the website showed that every second an additional 0.035 kb were given. Calculations showed that that meant that the rate was 126 kb per hour, so it doesn't look like its slowed down at all. Anyone else got that; if so, lets fix it. Fshy93 22:50, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Other Subtle Good UI Ideas in GMail
The e-mail address of the sender appears as a tooltip when hovering over the name@company.com in the inbox, allowing the user to quickly match the subject/body preview with the sender to indicate spam (without opening the message).

There's the "Download All Attachments" option, which saves all the attachments in a .zip file, a feature not offered by a significant number of major web-based e-mail services.

Advanced Searching
The advanced search section's examples use [label:(-inbox)]. This seems to work but [-in:inbox] is a little more understandable (because "inbox" isn't really a label) and concice. Both seem to do the exact same thing. Is it worth changing? Caleb 02:26, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * "Inbox" is really a label, Gmail doesn't have anything else! What do you think Inbox is - a folder (doesn't exist in Gmail)? A meta-data tag of some form? Just because it is familiar doesn't change the labelling methodology, check your "all mail" list and see all those messages with the Inbox label...


 * So no, not worth changing, perhaps a mention of "Gmail's Inbox, itself a label under the new organisation methodology..." would help elsewhere. Hope this clears things up Skewer 11:08, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Big mess requiring cleanup
This is a really bad entry, it has had so many bolt-ons that it needs severe work. For example:
 * Duplicate info under the intro bit, Development and Privacy
 * The whole thing is in the wrong order - why not
 * (intro) Merge Privacy and Competition in here, perhaps as subheaders
 * Development (without privacy info) - it's the first stage!
 * History - the second stage
 * Name Change - part of history, perhaps merge sections
 * Lockdown in Sector 4 - Also part of History, again why not merge it?
 * Features
 * Take the spellchecker info out of an image caption
 * Put things like "Dormant accounts" somewhere else (intro? competition comparisons?)
 * Limitations
 * Do something about "see also" and links

Nobody needs to see "how Gmail messages can get blacklisted" before they read the Gmail history.

Reworking this whole thing would probably reduce the size of the article (both in length and KB). Also we need recent screenshots (modern spellcheck etc.) and better screenshots (no Jpegs for screengrabs, any in-the-image annotations should be more clear and professional than the Gmail notifier arrow, which is in itself obsolete if a good caption exists).

Soooooo, I'll probably spend a bored day doing this. I'll wait a week or so in case there is feedback, but when it happens the edit will be massive :) - unless it gets opposed, that is... Skewer 11:39, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * If you decide to do a huge edit, please place Template:Inuse at the top of the page. Andrewjuren 00:14, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Invites no more
Has anyone else noticed that there is a "sign in" link at the top of www.google.com? This takes you to https://www.google.com/accounts/Login where you can "Create an account now" (which includes gmail access). Looks like the whole idea of invites is a thing of the past! Andrewjuren 00:20, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That's for creating a Google Account, which isn't the same as a Gmail account. Note that it asks you to enter your email address, and will not accept a non-existant @gmail.com address. &mdash; Asbestos | Talk   (RFC)  17:53, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Other e-mail providers
I just removed the list of other e-mail providers from the "see also" section of this article. The lengthy list of external links is already bad enough, but such a list of e-mail providers just invites more spam. I don't think is needed, and let's keep this article just about Gmail. --Aude ( talk | contribs ) 01:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Gmail tools
I have come to think about this. What is the use of including them into this article? Do they make Gmail any more special? It seems like a big excuse for developers to advertise their tools, so I'm removing them. Soothing R  15:37, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Fans/Haters
Quite a lot of sections in the article seem to be written by fans of Gmail, then edited by haters to include some negative point, then edited by fans again to bring a refutation, then added by haters again to bring a refutation to the refutation, etc

A clear example of this is the POP3 acces section. I don't know what the truth of the situation is, so I won't go and rewrite it, but the way that it is presented now is just bad. -- Mystman666 (Talk) 15:57, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Chat is up...
Just thought an update should be known. --71.198.41.251 20:19, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Anyone know if chat can be turned off? I'm getting an annoying "need to install Flash - is this OK?" box popping up all the time - I can't (and don't want) to install it.  I'll never use it.  Ta MikesPlant 10:37, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Aha, found it. Can be switched off by scrolling all the way to the bottom of the page and finding Standard without Chat in amongst all those things that one never reads at the bottom. MikesPlant 09:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Grouping the Features
The list of Google features has become too big and unwieldy. I tried to divide them into four large groups, and it was hard to find categories broad enough to fit all of them perfectly. See if you can improve on my tentative classification. --HYC 05:47, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Since I was at it, I also regrouped the other major sections. All my edits today were reshuffles, and did not add of remove any text, except for the headings and subheadings. --HYC 06:48, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Integration with GTalk looks like an ad
The new section entitled "GMail integration with GTalk" added by 59.144.240.65 looks like pure advertising copy to me and is definitely not NPOV. It either needs to be substantially edited or deleted. Anyone else feel uncomfortable with its current state? Ande B. 06:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it reads like an advertisement. If no one can be bothered to rewrite it, the article would be better of if the section is just deleted.-- Mystman666 (Talk) 17:18, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I removed the GMail integration section because, upon Googling the lead sentences, I found that nearly every word had been lifted verbatim from Google's GMail promotion pages at http://mail.google.com/mail/help/chat.html That looks like copy vio, advertising and POV problems to me. If I'm in error, I'm sure someone will correct me. Ande B. 23:51, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Lead section too short
The Lead section should be a concise summary of the whole article, usually 2-3 decent paragraphs for an article this size. Someone want to move some of the "overview" section back into the intro? Stevage 14:55, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Sure I'll do it. :P Then you go there and fix my grammar. --Caue (T | C) 15:18, Saturday 2006-04-1 (UTC)

Seeking feedback on Google Groups article
Hello. I wrote an article about a related topic, Google Groups. As a new Wikipedia writer, I would appreciate any feedback on my article. Please help me by posting your feedback at the Article Feedback Desk. If you wrote an article and are seeking feedback on it, please post your article at the Article Feedback Desk as well. If you could suggest better ways for me to seek feedback on my article, do leave a note at my talk page. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 13:09, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality?
The Privacy section is marked as being disputed for its neutrality on the Talk page, but I don't see any such discussion here.

GA
Congradulations to everyone who has worked on this article, Gmail is now a GA.False Prophet 23:31, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

After beta
Taken from the main page:

Two years later, Gmail is still in "beta", meaning that access to the service is restricted to those who had received an invitation from an existing account holder, from Blogger, or through their mobile phone.

It is not confirmed that Gmail will lose these access restrictions after its beta stage, so saying that it's BECAUSE of beta might be incorrect. I'm not sure how you would change it though...

--Joe C 12:36, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm in agreement with you. I suggest changing that sentence to such:


 * Within the last two years, GMail was still being developed, so it is currently in its "beta" version. Currently access to the service is restricted to those who had received an invitation from an existing account holder, from Blogger, or through their mobile phone.


 * I used "currently" in the second sentence, becuase we cannot promise that GMail team is going to keep the restrictions as is for a long time. They may increase or decrease it.


 * huji— TALK 16:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the suggestion - i've included a very similar version in an article's edit. I think it needed to happen, even though it was a relatively small change.


 * --Joe C 12:53, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Is there any hint of when it will cease to be in Beta? MikesPlant 16:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Probably never. See 'Beta status permanent?' at the bottom of this page. Leandrotlz 19:10, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Mention Gmail down-time in Critisism section
Gmail seems to be down quite occasionally, and it will do well if someone mentiones this.
 * I actually have very few problems with it being down, and have about 20 times more problems accessing Myspace -- 12.116.162.162 19:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Archive Me!!!
That is all! The Page. lol... p00rleno 23:24, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

References broken
Reference #4 and #6 are broken / need some TLC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.252.170.209 (talk • contribs) 20:43 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Archiving the talk page
Hello everyone!

As this talk page has become sort of large in size, I'm about to create a new archiveout of it. I will create the archive by the end of June or begining of July 2006, and I will try to archive only those posts who are old enough and not currently being answered or followed up.

Before proceeding, if you feel a special post shoudl remain, please notify me here or on my talk page.

Thanks, huji— TALK 17:26, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Page archived successfully huji— TALK 21:17, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

"Calendar" feature
Does anyone think that the Calendar section is worded as if Calendar is part of Gmail? When it is actually a separate service. I think it should be re-worded to be more about the intergration between gmail and calendar, but with still a link to Google Calendar. --Mambo Jambo 21:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Spell check
Something about how spell check in Gmail works would be nice, or a pointer. What is the marked up version of the text, and how is the ability to edit it switched on and off? -15:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

When "Spell Check" is clicked unknown or unrecognised words are highlighted in yellow (not showed if e-mailed). When you click those words it brings up a list of related words. This is much like the google toolbar function. --76.186.238.224 23:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Spell check...
Spell check is currently implied in the article to be an 'absent feature'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.74.241 (talk • contribs)

Beta Status Permanent?
I've thought for a while that Google's way of labelling their products as "beta" even after they're performing much better than competitors is intentional; to show that software never really comes out of "beta", that there's always room for improvement. And five minutes ago, I was reading Google Gulp's FAQ I came across this:

11. When will you take Google Gulp out of beta?

''Man, if you pressure us, you just drive us away. We'll commit when we're ready, okay? Besides, what's so great about taking things out of beta? It ruins all the romance, the challenge, the possibilities, the right to explore. Carpe diem, ya know? Maybe we're jaded, but we've seen all these other companies leap headlong into 1.0, thinking their product is exactly what they've been dreaming of all their lives, that everything is perfect and hunky-dory -- and the next thing you know some vanilla copycat release from Redmond is kicking their butt, the Board is holding emergency meetings and the CEO is on CNBC blathering sweatily about "a new direction" and "getting back to basics." No thanks, man. We like our freedom.''

Granted this observation was made regarding a joke product, however it does confirm that Google has absolutely no plans of taking GMail out of "beta" until there's absolutely nothing more they can do with it.

Leandrotlz 15:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

How to develop a gmail feature for organizing inbox messages by subject alphabetically
How would a gmail feature be developed for organizing inbox messages by subject alphabetically?
 * It wouldn't be. Gmail's homepage says "search, do not sort". You just don't need to. Mambo Jambo 11:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree. I often want to get rid of all mails from a certain address, when I search, I get other stuff too - it's quite annoying.  Also, it would be nice to sort on size: 2.7Gb doesn't last long if you have a few photos and other assorted files in there.  The motto could be "Search, you don't need to sort (but you can if you want as our developers could easily put it in)".  Not quite so catchy but would make it a better user experience and it takes nothing away from the current proposition. MikesPlant 17:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

How to contact current gmail developers by email directly
How do you contact the current gmail developers by email directly... NOT through the usually available unresponsive contact forms.
 * Good luck. =) Mambo Jambo 11:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Lycos Mail up the Ante
Lycos mail (lycos.com) now offers 3.0 GB of storage for free; so the competition is still getting higher. This would probably make Lycos ahead of gmail in terms of storage, and only behind 30gigs.com; which doesn't really count as an email service in my book. What is 30gigs anyway?

Near Infinite?
Taken from the current text: "spammers cannot register near-infinite numbers" How can a number be near infinite? Infinite is a concept of numbers never ending and can never be realized. Kind of petty so i'm not going to change it because I see it as more of a term of speech, but if anyone has comments I would listen. Tuluvas2 16:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

(I mean how can a number of physical things or recorded things be near infinte)
 * Just change it to something more realistic, like "spammers are unable to make a large number of accounts easily", I think. talk to JD wants e-mail 19:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

That sounds better so I changed it to something very close to that. Kind of a petty edit as I am sure almost everyone could understand it to be a term of speech and not to be taken literal, but I think it "feels" better to read now. Tuluvas2 14:19, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Meh, I tend to look at things as literally as they get, so you won't hear any complaining from me. J Ditalk 03:14, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Remove beta notice
I propose we remove the beta template from the top of the article. Though Gmail might still have "beta" by its logo, it is not beta software: it's stable with open registration, *with new features being added sparingly*. Furthermore, Google is notorious for listing a product as "beta" software long after it's beta software. Thoughts? Sean Hayford O&#39;Leary 01:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Due to the fact that there have been no responses in the two weeks since I posted this, I can only assume there is no objection. If there are disagreements, please post here before adding beta template again. Sean Hayford O&#39;Leary 22:04, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Gmail invite policy
I wish they would get it straight with the invite policy. Because my last name looks like a spamming tip-off I got no invites to give away, but when my friend who got in about the same time did not have this problem name got 19 invites to give away (the response to my inquiry to the gmail people was factual but border-line rude in my book)...It is a shame, because of the features I had suspected that over time the facility would develop into one of the best around...I wanted to give invites to each of my friends and relatives spead across the world as a common meeting place. My father was always writing letters and until he died, managed to keep our family together this way...but since he passed on, over the years we have been drifting away from each other...I felt that gmail with the right kind of nice facilites like talk, notifications, et al, would be a good way to reverse this trend...but I can't get them into gmail without a great deal of trouble.

BTW I notice the way that the gmail operators interact with users had a slight negative edge to it...I don't think that it is intentional, but I do believe that the great task of dealing with a large number of users has to do with this...I've been knocking around computer mail facilities since the 1970s and I've seen a number of companies get it wrong when they try to deal with these issues...this includes specific experience with IBM for example...If an organization really knows what they are doing in regard to administering a large email...it will go smoother than what I have observed from the gmail operators. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.228.81.224 (talk • contribs)

UK terminology
Top of the article says "Gmail, known as Google Mail in the United Kingdom and Germany". I use Gmail and I live in the UK, and I have a lot of friends who use Gmail, and everyone calls it Gmail. I have never heard anyone call it Google mail. Is this just an "official" thing or what?--Shantavira 14:16, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Look at the logo in the top left-hand corner; dependent on your ISP it will probably say Google Mail, though it may also say Gmail. — G  a  ry Kirk  // talk! 14:34, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I live in the United States and mine says "GMail." Funnyhat 04:41, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * "Gmail, known as Google Mail in the United Kingdom, United States, Japan, and Germany", In the US and Japan, isn't the service known as GMail? Samuel J 17:06, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I can't say for sure for Japan, but as for the United States, it is NOT known as Google Mail. It is known as GMail.--168.254.226.35 16:10, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Just so this edit doesn't go down as an annon. edit, it was me who posted this.--XMBRIAN 20:14, 3 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Google Mail is the name for the UK and Germany only, due to those two separate lawsuits. --Mambo Jambo 11:11, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Gmail https petition
The gmailssl petition was just recently deleted. I understand that Wikipedia is not a place for advertising. I do understand that I can't post a link for the only purpose of advancing my site. But considering that the security flaw posed by no https redirection is by no means trivial, isn't it relevant?

The security flaw is that all data sent to Google, such as your messages, contacts, etc. are sent without any type of encryption, making your data easy prey to crackers and snoopers, especially in WiFi hot spots.

The petition is relevant, but if it's relevant enough is out of my hands. --70.92.160.226.


 * Nothing stops you from switching to https manually after logging in -- just edit the url. SSL eats a lot more CPU and doesn't compress well, so not enabling it for the whole session by default seems reasonable. In WiFi networks the risk is actually not higher than wired -- a decent WiFi network should use WPA encryption, which is quite safe. For wired Ethernet, most networks are now based on switches, not hubs, so sniffing is no longer such a big issue as it used to be.--Wanted 19:08, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The concern is about WiFi hotspots, where login is public and there is no encryption. Besides, even on an encrypted network, the data is still unsecured when it's transmitted over the Internet. --  Tuvok  ^ Talk 01:32, 6 October 2006 (UTC)