Talk:Goa trance/Archive 1

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Popular Music Section Deletion
The 'popular' music section has been around for about 2 years now and has gotten out of hand. The list is completely subjective and thus, unencyclopedia (it has been tagged as such for a while now). It was suggested that perhaps the list could be turned into another article itself, instead of just deleted. However, "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information" -- even if it was moved to its own article, it would still be unencyclopedic and violate the Neutral Point of View policy. If a user wishes to find a list of popular albums, or even a list of ALL goa albums ever, then they can find themselves a website of a CD distributor. Plus, an external link to a CD Distributor is not acceptable either, that would Wikipedia Conflict of Interest policy because it would be a commercial link. As such, I am now deleting the Popular Music Section. -- RedPoptarts 00:58, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Popular Music / Notable Albums
As I have suggested with Psychedelic trance, I recommend the removal of the "popular" music section and have it changed to generations of music and those that laid the foundations of the style. That is encyclopedic, this is far from it. --Kim Nevelsteen 14:04, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Hey everyone. First, I wanted to say thanks to Ld for the great stuff he's been doing for the Goa trance page. The notable albums and artists lists is a great addition. I had a feeling though, that it would ruffle some feathers; who decides what's notable? There has to be some sort of consensus on what albums are notable or else the list is going to become bloated and it would be more like list of Goa trance albums. Also, a lot of people are going to want to come in and start removing artists they don't like. I think that any removals or additions need to be discussed in Talk first and that the list should stay either about the size it is now, or be shrunk down a bit.-->Chemical Halo 00:07, 2005 Jan 11 (UTC)

YOu cant express your own oppinion here about whats best and whats not .Its an encyclopedia. This is the source for information not for expressing your own oppinion about what you like.

YOu cant express your own oppinion here about whats best and whats not .Its an encyclopedia. This is the source for information not for expressing your own oppinion about what you like. Vorash 00:09, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, but why delete the image for Twisted and why not just change the text under the Pleiadians album rather than delete it completely? And, if you wanted to discuss the opinion about the Pleiadians album in Talk first, why did you revert it again?-->Chemical Halo 00:15, 2005 Jan 11 (UTC)

If you whant to write about some album that was "VEry popular" write about it, but why you putting it as something "special " with an image an writing its the BESt.Vorash 00:26, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

If in article about trance music i will put image of album of Dj Tiesto and write "this was one of the best albums in trance" what you will say ? Vorash 00:31, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd say I don't really like trance. :-(     -->Chemical Halo 00:38, 2005 Jan 11 (UTC)


 * No, not my opinion, in fact I was basing it on the general consensus of the community. Might as well keep them out of the article on second thought, I think we will get more people like Vorash coming here and reverting constantly.  Hopefully noone will do a copyvio revert again ... -Ld | talk 00:44, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, you know my opinion, I think it should stay. Why not revert and then change some of the wording under the album pics?-->Chemical Halo 01:04, 2005 Jan 11 (UTC)
 * No, no point in having a revert war. I just think Vorash should adopt a different attitude or people might start questioning his own submissions.  -Ld | talk 01:07, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Its pure discrimination of other artist, that are not so "popular" and their work. Wikipedia supposed to be fair place.Vorash 01:55, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, how about we show notable compilations instead? That should not "discriminate" against any artist plus it will offer a novice a chance to have an introduction to Goa trance music by listening to many artists. -Ld | talk 02:14, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Lets leave everything as it is now. -Vorash
 * I think you should stop complaning. ALL artists worth noting are found somewhere on these compilations (including Talamasca, with some of their best (IMO! :)) tracks - Jungle Storm and Sinai).  Also sign your posts. -Ld | talk 02:48, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

hihihi Vorash 03:02, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I added in a couple of links to online goa trance stores to the general info section. I hope this is OK, if not please let me know. --Myrkabah

I added several artists just to see them removed again the next day. I think Blue Planet Corporation, Sandman, and Talamasca should be on the list as notable artists. These are the ones that stick out most to me after listening to the great majority of Goa albums. Is there a reason they are being removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.151.119.250 (talk) 03:08, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Goa & Psy Trance Are Not The Same At All!!!
Hello!!! My name is tamir,from israel,trance producer.I have been listening to trance for 13 years.I started listening to astral projection,yaniv haviv who left the astral crue later after guy sabbag (He brought trance to israel the first time in the early 90's,so they say) who left the crew first,they went to solo carriers or other collaborations.Yaniv haviv & harel prussky made an album called "Trans Nova Express".There were also albums that were called "TRANCEMANIA" Collection 1&2 also known as the yellow & orange tip albums by TIP RECORDS,they describe goa trance in it's best,melodic,oriently inclined melodicly (Indian/Eastern music,Shanti Music),filtered with TB-303 Sounds,full on trance,more emotional. Psy trance which came after in the late 90's was more mechnical,less emotional,less melodic & not oriently inclined anymore as it's "father" the goa trance.less filtering,more sound effects that were strange,more monotonic,deeper basslines.It was more space music than goa trance which didn't depand on sound effects (which were sampled) as it's main motive. Music=Oriental melodies controlled the goa scene,this was called "full on" trance also,cause the melodies were all over the tracks & never stopped. Anyway,psy trance is what we call here "morning music",it resembels the tech trance scene in europe,which is kind of minimalistic in charcter,but is weird spacey music,not shanty music as we heard in goa tracks.

It's a mistake to say goa is similar or the same as psy.Those who named it goa trance didn't do it by accident,cause of the music connection to indian/eastern symbolics. Psy isn't connected to hindo,shaminism,or shanti atmospheres at all.

More known artists of goa/psy:Dark Soho,Ominus,Space Cat (avi algranati),Ofer Dikovsky,Yahel (he makes progressive also),sun project,california sunshine (harel prussky & DJ Miko),Total Eclipse,alien project,GMS,MFG,raja ram,tim shultz,simon posford (hallucinugen),hux flux,shpungle (simon posford & raja ram),talamesca,etnica,cosma(israeli who died when he was in india performing/trip, in a motorcycle accident),suzuki tsyushi,psysex,holey man...

There are more but i can't remember...


 * Hello, Tamir, I reworded the article a little to reflect the fact that many people don't think that psytrance and Goa are synonymous. --Lexor 08:52, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

In my opinion, you can call Goa trance psychedelic trance but you can't call psytrance Goa. Actually, Cosma died in the accident, not Cosmosis. Ld 22:20, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

should The synthetic dream foundation be removed? looks like self promotion of a reletively unknown group Htaccess 06:15, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I will remove, it seems to be part of a larger self-promotion campaign. At any rate, The synthetic dream foundation is not Goa. Ld 22:38, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Speaking of things that aren't Goa trance, I think the line about Juno Reactor should be taken out and the listing of them as a popular artist. The Reactor Leak calls them "the best trance/ambient band in the world". Metropolis Records says they were "originally formed out of the Goa vibe of the early 90's". Being formed out of does not make Goa. They use a lot of Eastern sounds but they just don't seem to cross that Goa trance threshold for me. They have a wide range of influences but are they anything more than advanced trance? Sidenote: I have Bible of Dreams and Conga Fury is an absolutely amazing song, IMHO.-->Chemical Halo 08:23, Jan 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * I disagree. If we remove Juno Reactor, by the same token we would have to remove Infected Mushroom since they are not quite Goa trance either (their latest stuff especially).  I suppose if we had the same page for Goa and Psytrance we could move them to the Psytrance section. -Ld | talk 15:25, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Roger that. The more I think about this, the more I start to think you might be right about making these pages one. They should be dealt with together and it will be a single place for people to discuss differences, if there are any. I personally like the way that the Psychedelic trance page talks about the interpretations of the genres. Might be a good time now if all the copyright stuff needs to be taken out.-->Chemical Halo 01:24, Jan 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * All right, I have started the process of removing the copyvio. As for the merge, I think the question would be where the main article is most appropriate.  I believe Psychedelic trance is better, since there are still quite a few artists producing Psy while hardly any artists are working on "classic" Goa. -Ld | talk 01:59, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * You can't really say that psychedelic is "better" than goa, its really a matter of personal opinion. For example I love the dense atmosphere of the original Goa stuff (Twisted - Hallucinogen for example), and some people like me would rather produce goa rather than psy, even though psy has a much larger audience base. Considering that psychedelic (eg IM the supervisor - Infected Mushroom) has absolutely nothing to do with the classic goa (eg The Gathering - Infected Mushroom), it would be rather unwise to brutally merge these two articles together. But if it had to be done, Psy came from Goa, its only fair that Psy should be part of the Goa article. RZ heretic 05:32, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I'm a little more familiar with Goa artists but Psychedelic is more modern and active. Searching for Goa Trance should redirect to Psychedelic Trance though. Are you going to post a shortened article without the copyvio?-->Chemical Halo 18:37, Jan 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * Hello all. I've heard in one radio audition, that the proper name for this kind of music is "goa" not "goa trance". Though wrong, the second name is commonly used. The name "goa" shows that this is not just a kind of trance but an independent music style.

Hello all, isn't Juno Reactor an example of Future Pop? Wiki defines it as incorporating influences from synth pop (such as song structure and vocal style) and trance (uplifting, grandiose and arpeggiated synthesizer melodies). Manuel

is filteria goa? its just noise !!!! HE SUCKS.

Copyright questions
Here's the line I removed. It needs some work and it doesn't fit in... see my next comment.
 * Some came from wealthy backgrounds, ohters lived on bananas and coconuts whilst others funded their stay through the occasional drug smuggling It has a large group of listeners within hippie subcultures.

I don't know much about the copyright rules here at Wiki, but I found the original article here:
 * http://www.moodbook.com/music/trance.html#goa-trance

It's practically an exact copy. It just looks like a few lines and extra examples were added by various Wiki users. I'm hoping for a little more clarification how kosher this "copy" is. The entry for psychedelic trance seems to come from the same source:
 * http://www.moodbook.com/music/trance.html#psychedelic-trance

It has been edited and changed a little more than the goa trance entry. Did the author of those definitions submit or consent to these Wiki articles? -->Chemical Halo 07:19, Jan 4, 2005 (UTC)

I aways suspected it was lifted from somewhere but never bothered to check. Unless the Moodbook articles is PD (I doubt it), this would have to be removed and rewritten. Hopefully someone knows all the teachnical details about the music; I am mostly a fan, not a musician.

On another note, I would like to once again consider merging Goa and psychedelic trance and just having a separate section for each. Both of these articles pretty much contain the same information. -Ld | talk 15:16, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * I think it's resolved for now. I have listed MoodBook.com on the forks and mirrors page.

Reverted major edits which resulted in large-scale deletions by User:Vorash
Large scale edits which involve major deletion, should be discussed here on the talk page, and require the edit summary to be filled out. --Lexor|Talk 18:12, Jan 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * This page is copyright violater and should be deleted again. --User:Vorash


 * It isn't clear that it's a copyright violation (see discussion above), and at any rate, it's not the entire article, because there have been several edits since the original material was added, so the entire article should not be deleted, and hence I removing the delete tag. (P.S. please sign your posts, otherwise I will keep having to do it for you). --Lexor|Talk 18:45, Jan 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * In fact this article is almost certainly not a copyright violation because if you look at the history, the very first edit (which contains the text mentioned in the moodbook link) was by User:Hephaestos who is a long-time Wikipedian and wrote it himself. --Lexor|Talk 19:20, Jan 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, there is a more detailed analysis of this issue at Talk:Psychedelic trance. -Ld | talk 19:45, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hey the text on the history of Goa is really biased towards having an Israeli origin-keep dreaming on-maybe you'll wake up when you're flying? It makes the page pay lip service to a very small component of the origin-and does not include the full story seen-which makes it look like an advert for israeli trance. "Open-Eye"
 * User 155.232.250.51 (talk &middot; contributions) forgot to sign the above post --Silas Snider  (talk) 20:25, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

Samples
I notice samples have been added in ogg format, I assume that ogg is the wikipedia mandated format (which I fully support btw). My question is where the current samples encoded directly from a lossless source (like the origional wav from CD or FLAC)? If they were transcoded from MP3 sources this would be a bad thing and we should think of redoing them. Transcoding from a lossy format to another lossy format results in signigficant loss of fidelity, its like taping from an analogue tape. We should try to get the best quality out of the available bitrate. Htaccess 07:29, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * While I understand the problems of converting MP3's to OGG, I don't think it's too much of an issue here since we just want people to get a feeling for the music. Most other music samples I found and Wikipedia were created the same way.  I was actually worried that these samples sound "too good" and may get pulled from the website.  However I was not able to find any guidelines for the bitrate and such so I just used the lowest quality available. -Ld | talk 14:30, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * mp3???? ogg????? what you talking about ???????Vorash 00:35, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Yes, guys please don't transcode between codecs I suppose, because they are samples it doesn't matter much, but it's a big problem these days. I whole heartly support Ogg Vorbis and I encode my music collection with it and FLAC. I helped edit the page on wikipedia reguarding Ogg Vorbis made some corrections and added links. I help edit the Hydrogenaudio wiki my username is HotshotGG. I know quite a bit about this stuff. I think what you are doing with the samples is a great idea though. Just use -q 0 and encode with the latest binaries or tuned ones. -User:24.147.201.151 18:59, 27 August 2005 (EST)

Goa party pictures?
Anybody have a photo they are willing to release on Wikipedia? I think it would add nicely to the article. -Ld | talk 04:35, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Toshiyuki Kakuta
Toshiyuki Kakuta has made some goa trance for Konami's Bemani music game series. Is this fact worth mentioning in the article? --SPUI (talk) 05:40, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Texas Faggot??
Are Texas Faggot considered goa? Should we link to them from this page?--Sonjaaa 01:26, May 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * It's suomisoundi (sp?), so it's considered psytrance. --88.66.205.229 06:31, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Some questions regarding possible changes
July 13, 2005

Okay, first of all I corrected some grammer and did a lot of rewording to improve readability. Don't think the edits should've stepped on too many people's toes.

Secondly, some comments:

The opening line comments that Goa is refered by the number 604. I have been involved in the Goa scene for years and have never heard of this - can anyone second this term use (is maybe something used by only a handful of people, in which case it should be removed)? *604 is GOA*

Secondly, regarding the line "Goa is also often played at raves, festivals and parties in conjunction with other styles of trance and techno". I can mainly only speak for Canada, and somewhat for the States, but here there's Goa parties that play all Goa, and I've almost never heard it played in combinations with other genres at other parties. If the line remains true for Eupope, then okay...otherwise, I'd say it's incorrect and should be replaced with a comment that Goa music usually has strong followings and is not generally played at parties in conjunction with even other types of trance.

Thirdly - Juno Reactor?! Come on, you've got to be kidding. I'm not going to argue any further or make any changes along these lines because as everyone knows (hopefully) genre definitions are a matter of opinion. But, seriously, Juno Reactor?! ;).

Talk to anone who was on the net and into goa in the late 90's and they should know what 604 is, the 604 list was the main Goa/psy list on the net, its use was probably confined mostly to the net but was/is widly used, google for 604 and goa and you'll find a bunch of links or look at the 604 list archives from 1996 Htaccess

Oh and check out your CD collection, youll find a few albums with a catalogue number of 604 (eg Cosmosis - Cosmology). Htaccess 13:30, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

604 may mean 'goa', I have heard of it previously from people who have been out there in the 90's (I'm guessing as the numbers have a resemblance to the letters) but as far as I can see there is no mention of this anywhere in the artical! surely even a brief explanation is called for? Cyberboy (talk) 14:59, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

---I second that, if 604 is merely the L337 way of inscribing "GOA" then that should be first: explained - then explaining the signifigance of this. I suspect it has to do with the very synthetic/computer/esoteric cultural associations with the music but I'm only hazarding a guess. I was a fan of this musical style back when it was a new thing but I never heard the 604 reference but I was also never that much into it that I would have known. I came across this page trying to figure out why ladytron named their first album 604 as that is my phone area code and I was wondering if there was some local connection. However, I'm guessing there is not but rather an intended GOA reference... On the other hand I haven't listened to that album well enough to say but I do like both... If anyone knew more about this that would be very enlightening! Thanks.Rusl (talk) 03:11, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality
For the arguments on the neutrality for this article please see the discussion page of Psychedelic trance --Kim Nevelsteen 22:46, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

(OT?) Album question
Hello, I was wondering what album the sample "Mystical Experiences in Goa" is from. Can't seem to find any other references to it. Help would be appreciated. Thanks.24.174.19.126 13:19, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Link from Goa
Shouldn't the page Goa be substituted with a disambiguation one? (sorry - I missed the link stuff: guess it's beacause of too many wiki dialects around) --213.178.203.11 18:59, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Huh?
"Goa trance (often referred as Goa or by the number 604) is a form of electronic dance music and is often mistakenly thought to be a style of trance music." ... Huh? Psychomel @  di(s)cussion  00:10, 22 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Haha, nice find. Someone should pick which it is. ;) --711groove 13:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Move to Goa trance
Objections? Psychomelodic (people think edit) 22:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Detach "Popular Goa trance artists and albums"?
This section consumes almost 50% of this article's length, shouldn't it be detached into an article labelled "List of Popular Goa trance artists and albums"? --711groove 13:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

No mention of Psychic TV?
Astral Projection cite their "acid house" period as a key influence: "In the early 80's we both had (separately) Industrial and Electronic bands we both performed all around Tel Aviv. At that time people were into New Wave Music. We both stumbled across each other and an Acid House tune on 12" Titled 'Superman' by Psychic TV. It was love at first sound. We then began writing similar music together at Avi's parents' underground shelter. The first track to come out of our new ventures, 10 years ago was as SFX and entitled 'Monster Mania' released by the Belgian Company, Music Man. SFX was our first band together, which later changed to Astral Projection in the same format." [] Donnacha 12:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Goa trance originated in Goa???
Goa trance "originated in the late 1980s and early 1990s in the Indian state of Goa and is distinctive, as most forms of trance music were developed in Europe." I don't think so. This makes it sound like the music was written in Goa, which I don't think is true. Here's what I think happened:

Goa had been a hippie destination for years. It so happens that hippies like taking psychedelics, and trance music is a good accompaniment to this, and so in the early 1990s a spiral began of more trance parties, and more hippy-types going to Goa *for* the trance parties (as an alternative to the increasingly commercialised Ibiza) -- it became a psy party destination. Now, when people are on summer holiday they tend to want to dance to happy, melodic, uplifting styles of music, and so this section of trance came to be known (by the mid 1990s) as Goa trance because it was played at the parties in Goa -- *not* because it "originated" there! It was still originating from and developing in Europe primarily, and was being played by visiting DJs. The Goa scene was an intinerant scene, it didn't really have much to do with the locals!

Anyone care to disagree before I butcher that intro paragraph?

Quaestor23 19:00, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It's an interesting theory, but please check out the first History external link, entitled A Decade of Psychadelic Trance specifically, this page before you go and 'butcher' the page. =) -- RedPoptarts 22:30, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I do agree, that although Goa trance is 'labeled' with that name, it is more because of the type of music that tended to be played by and for the 'hippies' - definitely not related to the natives or locals. I'm trying to think of other examples where something got labeled by another country even though it was brought there. Nothing comes to mind, though, at this time. -asmadeus 22:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Jetlux - Illuminated
If that's an example of goa, then I'm Martin Freeland. Silly synthetic psytrance resembling full-on, nothing more than that, and absolutely *NOTHING* to do with goa. Will somebody please delete it from the page? Argh, my ears! 83.131.37.47 19:21, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

No Hallucinogen
Why is there not a Hallucinogen in the music samples. He gets discussed as a noteworthy artist and yet isn't included in that. Just curious. MystikRyder 03:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC) MystikRyder

The sound of Goa Trance / drum pattern
This section described the classic dance drum pattern. A typical goa drum beat is more complex. E.g. the basedrum is more rolling and there isn't neccesarily a snare. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ensonic (talk • contribs) 06:06, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Artists
Infected Mushroom, Astral Projection, Man With No Name, GMS, is not Goa. They are isra-trance at best, any goa fan would say its just full on. --22:44, 21 November 2008 (UTC)MuZG (talk)