Talk:Goffal

Numbers
Any ideas of the number of people in this group? The Zimbabwe page lists 'Mixed Race' people as making up 0.5% of the population (but does not give a source for this data). I make that about 65,000, plus the diaspora. Does anyone have any reliable figures? Indisciplined 18:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

This entry is problematic
This entry seems to duplicate information that should otherwise go under the term "coloured Zimbabwean." The problem is that it takes a slang expression, "goffal," which is an ironic term of self-identification by coloured Zimbabweans (in the way that an urban black American youth might call themselves "niggers" or white American southerners might refer to themselves as "rednecks") and elevates it to the status of an actual identity marker! While the term has currency and should be noted as an entry, it should be discussed mainly as a slang expression.

In Cape Town, South Africa, a comparable term to goffal would be "Gam." The term comes from the Biblical story of Noah who cast out his son Ham. In the story, Ham then went on father the peoples of Africa. In racist history, the term Ham came to stand for darker-skinned people, and at certain times, slaves. Cape coloureds sometimes jokingly refer to themselves as Gam (Afrikaans for "Ham") if they desire to make a point about socially dubious behaviour that some of their members engage in. This usually means self-defeating behaviour, like drunkenness, buying Nike tennis shoes for one's baby (even if one is very poor), or other activities which make people shake their heads and laugh at the same time. Goffal has a similar feel in its intent. It is comic-ironic, but also mildly assertive.

The term goffal has been appropriated by younger coloured Zimbabweans as a self-aware display of pride, reversing the derogatory intent of the term (like blacks calling themselves "nigger" with a sense of affection and groupness). It is used by people who understand the derogatory legacy of the term, but nonetheless choose to fill the meaning of the term with positive associations. There is a recognition in its use that coloured Zimbabweans will forever be in a marginal position in the country (historically under white rule and presently under black rule). The term goffal sums up the "what can you do?" resignation of people who know that they face real limitations, but choose to act with agency and resolve nonetheless. Crucially, there is a humorous intent behind the use of the word. (Also, it's worth mentioning that the term is much older than the 1980s, dating back to the early part of the 20th C. Earlier contributions to this article highlight the etymylogical depth of the term, but later revisions have made it seem like a completely present-day phenomenon.)

Hence, this entry should not be focused on the coloured Zimbabwean group, whose history should be treated elsewhere, but about the use of this peculiar term in Zimbabwean discourse. It makes no sense to speak of "goffal communities" in Zimbabwe, just as it would not make sense to speak of "Gam" or "Coon" communities in Cape Town (even though these terms are used at times by coloureds to refer to themselves for ironic purposes). Moreover, the term is highly contentious and would rarely, if ever, be used in a formal setting.

Lastly, this entry seems to be the personal creation of Ljsoutter (who has failed to create a user page to introduce him/herself) and the goffal.com webmaster (the same person?). While it is great that a few people are enthusiastic about promoting knowledge of a relatively obscure topic, it does no one any service to make the contentious term "goffal" stand for the whole coloured Zimbabwean people. This encyclopedia entry would have more value focusing on the meanings and usage of the term "goffal," not coloured people in general. Henry M. Trotter 09:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I found this article very unencyclopedic. It seems like more of a commentary, with no citations and massive generalisations about the physique and personality of goffals. I don't know anything about the subject, so I won't edit it, but I think that it needs a total rewrite to make it a more genuinely informative article.Snorgle (talk) 09:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

The author of this piece makes sweeping statements regarding the personality traits of so-called 'Goffals' in this paragraph:

"Goffal communities are characterised by very jovial way of life which are characterised by loud parties, extremely social attitudes, loud and fast cars, colourful attire and of course, the love for street fighting amongst the younger members of the communities. It was not uncommon to see groups of Goffal youngsters going to nightclubs just to get a thrill out of fighting with others to prove their superiority." This really is the worst kind of racial stereotyping, and if used in South Africa to refer to another mixed race group, 'Coloureds', such a statement would certainly be called racist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.58.248.56 (talk) 12:14, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree totally with the previous contributors, and the only slight point I would want to make is that in every community there are those who may go against the grain and cause blanket judgement on the whole community for example the high crime rates in Johannesburg SA does not mean that most of the individuals are criminals or the same can be said about Mbare in Zimbabwe and so on, so when the article talks about street fighting and such like he has deviated from what his point was supposed to be defining the term "goffal" and also its roots and not paint a whole community as he erroneously did. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lfmaxwell (talk • contribs) 18:51, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Goffal
The term goffal does not just refer to Zims goffals but to all goffals from the southern africa region, this needs to be corrected, and its not just british and dutch mixtures, there is quite a variety.--90.197.66.69 (talk) 10:54, 6 October 2008 (UTC)Ray lima