Talk:Gold/Archive 2

Archive for Talk:Gold from July 2006 to June 2009.

old comments
Las Medulas is not in Galicia, it is in Leon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.164.62.20 (talk) 16:59, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Request Edit
((editsemiprotected)) Could someone put "Toxicity" under "characteristics"? I'm a new user and cannot edit semiprotected articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SaaHc2B (talk • contribs) 18:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Please Dumb It Down!
It's fantastic that all this info is here, but it's total gibberish. I don't know how many non-experts look at this, but lots of it is of that caliber. Maybe it should have sub-articles for the specifics of things like economics and chemistry. There should at least be better organized paragraphs and sections that follow the mechanics of writing, unlike that neat etymology of "acid test" in the introduction. Lots of the hard science needs explaining, too. These improvements would make wikipedia much more enjoyable for casual users.

p.s. I was just trying to find out why gold doesn't easily corrode/ tarnish. Can anyone explain?


 * No offense, but anyone with a basic education can figure out the majority of this article, it really isn't that complicated. Of course there are some portions which are by nature more complex then others, but thats inevitable. About gold being tarnish resistant, that does seem like something that should be mentioned within the article.... Pstanton 21:40, 7 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pstanton (talk • contribs)

Amount of Gold
This article states that all the gold ever produced would fit into a cube, with a volume of 8000 m3. At a density of 19,300 kg/m3, this gives a total gold supply of 1500 tonnes, approximately. Later in the article the world supply of gold is said to be over 3000 tonnes. Why the discrepancy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.3.50.254 (talk) 09:47, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Could be that one thing is "all the gold ever produced" (1500 tonnes) and another is the total amount of gold on Earth that can be reasonably extracted? Just guessing. --Cyclopia (talk) 00:14, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

with 8000 m3 the total production would be close to 150,000 tonnes. this is the figure that the world gold council gives as its estimate for total production up to 2001. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.140.133.253 (talk) 16:03, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Value vs. wealth
Article talks about gold being a "store of value". I suggest that it be modified to read a "store of wealth". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.193.79.59 (talk) 03:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

New format
Article changed over to new WikiProject Elements format by maveric149. Elementbox converted 12:06, 14 July 2005 by Femto (previous revision was that of 23:36, 12 July 2005).

Just wanted to add a Gold Blog -

Gold global perspective

Information Sources
Some of the text in this entry was rewritten from Los Alamos National Laboratory - Gold. Additional text was taken directly from USGS Gold Statistics and Information, from the Elements database 20001107 (via dict.org), Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (via dict.org) and WordNet (r) 1.7 (via dict.org). Data for the table were obtained from the sources listed on the subject page and WikiProject Elements but were reformatted and converted into SI units.

Archives
/Archive 1: Jun 2003 - Dec 2006

[Green Gold] Error
Both Rose Gold and White Gold link to their own articles, but Green Gold links back to the main Gold article. Why? Seems like a bug. 68.5.64.178 12:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Unlike white gold and rose gold, the green gold article consisted of only one sentence and was changed into a redirect. If you want to expand the topic into a stand-alone article, follow the "(Redirected from Green gold)" link and you can edit the redirect page. Femto 15:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Quite Common in Turkey???
Can the author of the following line please provide a reference or some context? " For example, gold is quite common in Turkey but considered a most valuable gift in Sicily." Ordinary Person 03:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point, that needs a source. However, it doesn't sound incredibly unreasonable.  Turkey has a constantly inflating currency, so people would naturally want to trade in gold.  Plus, the strong Muslim tradition.  And remember, it's not saying that people carry large amounts of gold everywhere they go, just that it's commonly appears. MrVoluntarist 03:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Apparently there is a great deal of gold mining and exploration activity going on north-west Turkey information about which can be found on the web. The area in Turkey is geologically much like the north-east corner of New Mexico in the US and it would appear that there is quite a lot of Gold in both regions [the New Mexico area around Cimarron was extensively mined up until the 1950's]. Whether or not Turkey deserves particular mention sounds as if interested parties were seeking investors IMHO... Drrocket 14:29, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Geometry exercises
>> ''At the end of 2001, it was estimated that all the gold ever mined totalled 145,000 tonnes. Gold has a very high density, 19.3 tonnes per cubic metre, therefore all the gold ever mined would make a cube 19.58 metres wide; or a cylinder with height and radius of 13.3 m; or a sphere with radius 12.14 m.''


 * DelftUser, okay let's discuss, though technically it's your turn to explain for what reason it's been included again, not mine why I took it out. Science project exercises are not specific to this metal and its general article, and other geometries do add little to the approximate impression that the paragraph is meant to give. I'd find additional non-geometric comparisons more useful in any case, like the current world population per capita amount, for example. Femto 14:56, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * other non-geometric comparisons or even a diagram comparing the cube to an average human is fine with me, and I encourge you to do something in that line; for example one diagram can represent all three geometries, but please don't delete my work (without even a discussion) just because you feel like it. --DelftUser 15:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Without even a discussion? We're discussing it right now, aren't we? Your only point so far was that you find this info useful for science projects, and I disagree that it adds to the article. I have equal right to edit unrelated content out as you have to edit it in. One person for, one against, any article should remain in the state as it was before the edits of both involved parties, actually. Though I won't remove this again if you want, I still don't see any relevance to the topic. Femto 16:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Make that two against. Irrelevant math assignment removed. Vsmith 21:13, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, the inclusion of these figures are one way to visualize the volume of the gold mined. It is not irrelvant. I am in favor of maintaining the origianl information.--Morgan 05:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm shocked that the volume is so small. It wouldn't even fill a small movie theatre.  I think the information should be retained. Carbonate 08:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Of course, but did you infer the compared dimensions of your movie theatre from the cube, the cylinder, or the sphere volume? I still maintain that one measure is enough to get an idea and more isn't always better. Femto 13:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, I see. I wouldn't object to trimming it down to just the cube or just the sphere as long as one of them is kept. Carbonate 14:02, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The current single reference is fine, the stuff above is just overkill. WilyD 14:06, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello, i included the original comment about the 20 metre cube and a calculation because the volume is so small it seems implausable. This began after my friend's father (hello leno) claimed the that all the gold ever mined would fit inside his house. It wouldn't but i did the calc and was blown away how close it was, perhaps he just meant all the gold mined in australia? Knowing that the the volume of gold in existence was so small actually conveyed to me for the first time just how rare the metal is, i think this information is astonishing and i would like to include it. The problem is that the calculation looks ugly and will inevitably get trimmed out by someone who thinks its extraneous, and without the calculation someone else will cull the comment about the cube because it is not verified. anyone got any suggestions on how i can solve this? by some means other than pedantic territorial vigalance? mathew 10:08, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

World Gold Council
It should be remembered that the WGC is not in any way an independent organisation - it's an industry association of gold producers, so - no matter whether this manifests itself in its publications - it's naturally interested in a high gold price. Things to look out for (and again, in no way suggesting it's actually done, just that there are potentially economic incentives to):
 * understated production and reserve numbers (less gold would drive the price up)
 * overstated cost of mining (ditto)
 * overstated usefulness of gold (this actually appears to be the case)
 * understated willingness of central banks to sell off gold

Whenever possible, I think it's better if independent sources are used.

RandomP 15:21, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * But it has an org domain, it must be non-commercial. (/naïve mode off/) Incidentally, the root http://www.gold.org/ page was removed from the external links some time ago because it offered little more than a commercial lobby portal. Some sub-pages seem fine as starting point for finding basic info, however I'd agree that having additional sources, especially for the money-related data, is always better. Femto 12:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't believe it's commercial, in the sense of trying to create a profit for itself - it's merely trying to create a profit for its members.
 * They seem to be a lot nicer than, say, the competitive enterprise institute. But even if they try really really hard to be objective, I think there's going to be a slight bias in the selection of people who work there, a slight (possibly subconscious) bias towards only passing on data that's positive about gold, ...
 * Anti-gold bias appears to be mostly nonexistent out there - I'm sure plenty of people do have an anti-gold bias, but there aren't out there writing "investment newsletters" telling people to sell gold.
 * That makes it a bit hard for articles about gold to be NPOV-compliant, and I think we're not terribly good about that right now.
 * RandomP 16:34, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

This seems the appropriate section to highlight this. A large amount of the World Gold Council/gold.org links in this article have now changed due to a site upgrade at www.gold.org. Where possible, links have been redirected. If someone could message me then I will assist in locating the correct content within the new website. Hdotnet (talk)Hdotnet (talk) 12:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Who are Rod Fitzhugh and Ted Scott?
This bit keeps getting restored, and I honestly don't see what it's doing in this article. Is there anything notable about those people? Anything noteworthy about the gold they found? Do they look different from any other gold nuggets?

I'm tempted to remove the image caption, and possibly the image. Stop me.

RandomP 16:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The image is certainly appropriate for that section of the article. It shows raw, mined gold.  As for the credit, why not say who found them?  It may be relevant to those "in the know" about the gold mining industry.  If you credit a photographer with a picture in an article, does he have to be notable?  I really don't understand this drive to remove the credit. MrVoluntarist 16:44, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


 * My understanding (and this seems to match what I see when I actually look at a couple of heavily-edited articles) is, yes, all information in WP articles should be notable, and that credit for images is given on the image page. Wikipedia is a general encyclopedia, it's not intended to send secret messages to those "in the know" about the gold industry ;-)
 * and why should people who take images be credited prominently while those who write the articles aren't?
 * * secret handshake* RandomP 16:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


 * That's not what I said, and you know it. I'd appreciate if for one in your life you would actually read what I post here.  Between your "what did I say about MrsVoluntarist!" and "but people could have counterfeited gold coins in Ancient Greece if they used depleted uranium!" it's getting increasingly frustrating to communicate with you.  Who found the nuggets may be relevant to someone, esp. if they have background information on the topic (i.e. on the gold mining industry).  It's not "vanity".  It's certainly not a "secret message" to the gold industry. If there were a picture of a software program running, it's not "vanity" to mention in the caption who wrote an earlier version, even if that person is otherwise non-notable and has no article.  You can't just say, I ain't never heard of this person, he don't belong.  Who found it *does* matter to people interested in the topic. MrVoluntarist 17:10, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

If you want to discuss things I allegedly said in other articles, or their talk pages, please use my talk page. Why is it relevant who found those gold nuggets? Do they look different from others? I'm obviously not "in the know" here. What am I missing? If they're just gold nuggets, and for whatever reason you insist that gold nuggets found by those two specific people must be credited, could we solve the problem by substituting a picture of some other gold nuggets?

RandomP 17:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * If you're going to continue to ignore or blantantly distort what I post, I will point that out wherever you do so, not merely on your talk page. Of course it's worth adding who found them.  That way if someone hears about a discovery later, or one before, they can link it back to this one.  I don't even know why I'm explaining this.  Why give credits on a movie?  Why list the author of a book? MrVoluntarist 00:43, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * So this was a major or significant discovery? I'm not at all sure that you're saying that.


 * RandomP 01:59, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Lest we thought User:RandomP was finished falsely attributing statements to me. MrVoluntarist 02:29, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The people are of no notability to this topic. There are already enough pictures of nuggets in the article. The links on the image desription page are borderline adverts. - There should be a better reason than "why not" for defending this image's inclusion against three other editors. Femto 18:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


 * If the description has adverts, remove the adverts from the description. Novel concept!  It doesn't justify removing the image that something unnecessary is in the description.  And please -- someone added the names, someone reinserted the names, and I reinserted the names.  That's three to three.  The burden of proof is on you to justify removing information about a picture that someone may be interested in if they track gold discoveries (as one of many examples).  And when it comes to picutres, more is better, up to the point where it clutters and distracts from the article.  That's just not happening at this point. MrVoluntarist 00:43, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * If you've got better proposals than removing the image, be bold...
 * I, for one, do like the picture, since unless the jagged-edged gold nuggets of the other pictures, the nuggets displayed here showed the rounded shape I think of as more typical where gold nuggets are shaped by water.
 * RandomP 01:59, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, here's my proposal. Don't remove it.  Leave the credit.  Remove any advertising in violation of the rules on its description. MrVoluntarist 02:29, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Unacceptable to me. My proposal is to include the image with a brief text describing that it depicts gold nuggets found in Arizona, and nothing else.  (The description of the image at the image's page is beyond the scope of this discussion page.)
 * RandomP 02:42, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I brought up the image's talk page because another person raised the issue here. Remember?  And I understand you don't want people to find out who discovered the nuggets.  I have a little more trouble understanding why.  Because you don't like it when people learn these things?  What's really going on here? MrVoluntarist 02:48, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, MrVoluntarist just brought up a great point on his talk page that caused a bit of an epiphany for me. I'll try to describe the epiphany, not MrVoluntarist's point, here:

What he said was that, looking at a gold nugget, he would want to know who discovered it.

I must admit that I myself, reading about a chemical element or a mathematical theorem, want to know who discovered or proved it. When looking at a gold nugget, I don't care. When looking at a picture, yes. When looking at a good photograph, of course I want to know who the photographer was. Gold nugget, hmm, nope, still doesn't work.

However, this isn't about my personal reaction. This is about Wikipedia, which is sworn to the NPOV. And I must admit that from that point of view, there's no difference between someone getting mentioned for stumbling over a bit of gold or over a novel theorem, and both have happened. (Goldbach's conjecture is only marginally attached to Goldbach, but, hey, he got lucky. Incidentally the name "Goldbach" seems to hint at one of his ancestor's being named for finding gold in a small river, so maybe this sort of luck runs in families?)

And I must admit that the only consistent policy appears to me to name the person who found a given gold nugget when displaying a picture of it, unless impossible or unwanted (by the discoverer, of course).

However, for the gold article, I'm in favour of choosing a picture where no such credit is required, in the interest of brevity. However, how about including the picture (with the attribution), along with some more text, on gold nugget?

RandomP 03:35, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, that's a good idea, but in that case I'd want gold nugget linked from that section. MrVoluntarist 03:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm Rod Fitzhugh - I am a professional and recreational gold prospector. Don't you think knowing who found the nuggets might make it more interesting for the readers? Personally when I read about something knowing the history of it (in this case who did it and where it came from) is great icing on the cake. I even removed the link to our websites from the image, we don't directly sell on our websites. I really want to become more active on Wikipedia and contribute, but some of you really defeat that energy. I am just trying to contribute in an interesting way.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Gold Guru (talk • contribs)


 * Hi! Signing your comments with ~ is generally a good idea - the wikipedia software will automatically replace the four tildes by your username when you hit "save page", so everyone can see who said what.


 * I think the most important thing for you to realise is that even if your image isn't used in one article, it can be used in many others - and, since you decide to make your image freely reusable by others, everyone can use it, even people who have nothing to do with wikipedia.


 * I think that readers of gold nugget would be interested in seeing some pictures of gold nuggets, and that we should attribute them properly when we do that - just like we commonly attribute mathematical theorems or chemical elements to the people who first "found" them. However, my impression is that readers of the gold article, by and large, aren't that interested in nuggets - they're interested in the refined stuff, its uses, its history, how much it's worth, and whether they should buy it (wikipedia cannot answer that last question, but it can provide knowledge about the gold market).  They're also interested in how it's found, and gold nuggets should be mentioned on the page, but there are many other sections, so we should keep it short here.


 * That's why I think your image should go on gold nugget, properly attributed (though maybe we can leave out the day when they were found in the image caption? After all, it's not like gold nuggets look different today from what they did 200 years ago), but not in the gold article, or at least not with a caption.


 * Wikipedia is written for kids, too! I would think that many young readers find themselves overwhelmed with the sheer amount of text in a long article like gold, and look at the pictures first - so it might be a good idea to summarise important points of the article in the selection of images.


 * RandomP 02:14, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Rod, your nugget image is a good one and should be included. However, your inclusion of your and your buddies names in the caption qualifies as vanity. Thousands of people find gold nuggets - just finding some nuggets does not make anyone notable enough to have their names included in an encyclopedia. The image is good and likely will continue to be used, but don't expect your names to show up in the caption as who found it is irrelevant to the articles it may be used in. Your name and credits will remain on the image page, but by uploading it you essentially relinquished control over its use. And, if it's any consolation, your names are now preserved for posterity on this talk page :-) Cheers, Vsmith 02:50, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


 * VSmith, don't veto a developing consensus unilaterally like that. I enjoyed learning the names when I read the article, and people who track/ are interested in gold prospecting, (i.e., the exact people who are going to be reading an article involving that picture) would certainly be interested.  Crediting someone like this is not "vanity".  Above, RandomP agrees with me that listing the names is acceptable. MrVoluntarist 03:04, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Er... I don't believe I vetoed anything. I was simply trying to explain some common practices in Wikipedia to Rod. As to vanity: if I put my name on an image caption it is vanity - however, if someone else credits me with an image or something then it doesn't fit the vanity bit - although my name would still likely not be notable enough for inclusion. And just because two editors here may agree - that doesn't really make any kind of binding consensus for anyone else. Thanks, Vsmith 03:17, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * VSmith: you were talking like the matter was settled when it clearly wasn't. You told him that it outright constitutes vanity, as if there were no debate going on about the matter.  And as for whether it constitutes vanity: I was delighted to have names associated with the discovery, even though they currently don't mean anything to me, and I had nothing to do with that image's inclusion.  (Although I bet that won't stop you from alleging that, right?)  Remember, Wikipedia is not paper; we don't have to cut out things people may be interested in out of space concerns.  Some readers certainly will want to know.  What's really going on here? MrVoluntarist 03:32, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Gold Guru 03:18, 7 June 2006 (UTC)Gold Guru/Rod Fitzhugh

Thanks for being patient with me figuring out how to post here :) I'm learning :)

To RandomP

I believe the image should be on gold as it is raw gold and a good example of what real gold nuggets look like. We took it right out of the ground in the raw, its not refined. The date adds interest as do our names. Its not a vanity thing. We have different perspectives if you believe that. The article is about Gold and that is Gold. Real gold, photographed just a few hours out of the ground.

You said "it's not like gold nuggets look different today from what they did 200 years ago"

I disagree through real life experience. I have found many nuggets and no two look alike. Gold (nuggets) that contain more than 25 percent host rock are called specimen gold, then there is wire gold, sponge type gold, many types of gold. My point here is to illustrate that Gold in found in many forms. The pictures of the gold you have on the site now is really not "common form". The picture I donated is "common form" and I have been finding gold for many years and have friends all over the globe who prospect and have seen gold from all over the world and even traded gold I have found for gold from other parts of the world. The internet is an amazing tool :)

You said "I think the most important thing for you to realise is that even if your image isn't used in one article, it can be used in many others - and, since you decide to make your image freely reusable by others, everyone can use it, even people who have nothing to do with wikipedia."

Yes I realize that. It has been donated it to the public.

You said "my impression is that readers of the gold article, by and large, aren't that interested in nuggets - they're interested in the refined stuff, its uses, its history, how much it's worth, and whether they should buy it"

How did you come to that conclusion? Its your impression, not a fact. The picture adds interest in my opinion.

Agreed, Kids love gold prospecting. And reading about when, where and who peaks their desire to learn more. (Of course that applies with most readers if you want my 2 cents)

To Vsmith You said: "However, your inclusion of your and your buddies names in the caption qualifies as vanity" To me that is your opinion, in my opinion it peaks interest.

You said: "And, if it's any consolation, your names are now preserved for posterity on this talk page :-)" Well that matters little to me and does not concern me in the least.

Again guys, I'm new to this discussion format - thanks for your patience :) Still learning how to go about things on Wikipedia.


 * Of course, too many images of nuggets might make the page hard to read - it's a hard line to walk. Some people may be interested in nuggets - there's no reason to leave them out of the encyclopaedia.  The dates and names should be left off, unless the date and names would be considered encyclopaedic articles in their own right.  Thus if the gold was mined by Noah Timmins of Mattawa, Ontario, this might be an appropriate reference for the caption.  If it was mined by Johnny Nobody of Assbackwards, Ontario then it should be left out.
 * Hey! My grandfather's sister's son's college roommate's best friend's mother is from Assbackwards, Ontario!!! Carbonate 14:05, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Another purpose of using Gold.
As I read the Chemistry book yesterday. Purpose of gold is also using for preventing the teeth from cavity. Is it right? Because in some countries, they usually use gold for preventing from cavity. As scientists(Chemistry) observed gold, gold is one of the metal that can be used in teeth. Which is belonged to dentistry as I mentioned this in Dentistry article. I think that this one is already mentioned in the article. *~Daniel~* ☎ 06:15, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It already is within the article in the form of gold being used for teeth fillings. It only fills the cavity, however, it doesn't actually prevent it. Gold is used in someone's mouth because it has no toxicity to humans, due to its nonreactive nature; for the same reason, it also poses no threat to cavity-causing bacteria. --137.122.30.211 (talk) 01:08, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The nazis collected several tons of gold-filled teeth, which were broken out of the skulls of millions of jews gassed and cremated in concentration camps. A lot of that teeth-gold ended up in Switzerland, the swiss exchanged it for western hard currency, which the nazis used to buy swedish iron ore and raw steel for making battle tanks and other weaponry during WWII. Those two declaredly "neutral" countries did really nasty things to aid Hitler's war effort. 82.131.210.162 (talk) 10:22, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Is buried Gold toxic?
On a recent trip to central Mexico natives told me of a vast number of surface gold deposits and buried treasure. This tresure ranged from very old gold mines and gold/silver coins from the Spanish times and from the revolutionaries / independence movement. Apperently this "treasure" was buried to hide it from "whoever" and eventually was forgoten. In the last 15 years about 10-15 people have found large pots of coins and gold bars, sadly all have ultimately died from unknown health resons within weeks or months of teir finding. According to folk some have died by inhaling odorless toxic fumes/gases bottled up when they were digging, some others (majority) believe the gold and coins are cursed. I believe is the first one. By the way much of this stuff has been re-buried to keep the curse away, according to them. Has there ever been a study made on this? Does buried gold or coins expell toxic odorless fumes over time? Is there a health hazard breathing or handling old gold pieces, ore or bars? If anything found what type of processing will I need once I find something? Chemical bath, vacum sealed bags, etc? I'm very curious and willing to go down there again to check it out but I want to take all the proper precautions to do a safe dig and come out alive. User:Eternalyalive 00:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No, gold itself is not toxic. Your story sounds to me like folklore, of the sort that is meant to discourage tourists from digging up other people's property or otherwise making jerks of themselves looking for "Mexican gold". However, there are all kinds of nasty chemicals involved in refining gold, none of which should leave any residue in a minted coin or bar. --FOo 08:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Excuse me? All metals are toxic in high concentrations.  Gold is not as easily absorbed by the human body, but in the unlikely case of extended exposure to gold, it is possible to reach some level of toxicity.  Sure, gold may be the safest metal for the human body from a physiological standpoint, which is why we use gold in fillings, but that does not justify the flat out removal of numerous additions mentioning gold toxicity.  Could it be that some people are romanticizing gold to the point that they would ignore a potential health threat and deny all possibility of gold toxicity?  Plainly biased.  I believe that there should be further study done on this subject.  Fundamental research on metal toxicity is suggested. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.11.91.207 (talk)


 * Everything is toxic if the concentration is high enough: water, oxygen, a 2000 lb. block of iron on your head. Gold salts can be toxic in small amounts, I believe. This is, however, not the place to do further research. If there is further research, this is a good place to describe it. eaolson 00:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * My point is that there should be something said on the toxicity of gold, just as toxicity is mentioned in most other articles on metals; see copper for example. I have no idea how you rationalize the use of your "2000 lb. block of iron" straw-man, but it clearly holds no bearing in this topic as it does not relate to the subject at hand.  Without a doubt, too much of anything can be detrimental to your health, but some things are actually considered toxic.  There is no relationship between the "toxicity" of what you described and the toxicity of metal, as each substance has its own greatly varying affect on the human body - not all of them are toxic by definition, but metals are universally toxic to one degree or another.  As for research, I was simply suggesting that we should gather verifiable information on the toxicity of gold to add to this entry.   Or is that not what wikipedia is for? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.11.91.207 (talk • contribs).


 * Having spent many years running an actual chemical refinery [admittedly we conducted no actual experiments on the toxicity of Gold or its compounds] and having been exposed to metallic Gold in many physical forms as well as most Gold compounds, including the Cyanide complexes [no few of which actually left metallic Gold in the fatty layers under my epidermis], and having suffered *no* effects, I would have to see some very serious research on this matter.
 * The reason Copper and other metals are considered toxic is due to the toxicity of their water or fat soluble compounds and the effects they cause; since Gold itself does not readily react with human body fluids [or other common fluids] to form water or fat soluble compounds, it is generally considered to be a non-toxic metal. Drrocket 14:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that the story about the toxic buried gold is either folklore or if there was something toxic it was not the gold. However, there is something to be said about toxicity of gold. First, some gold compounds can be toxic, but let's focus on metallic Au(0), which seems to be the main controversy. While it is almost completely non-toxic, there is evidence that it does dissolve, although extremely slowly, due to interaction with certain ligands found in the human body, and even on the skin. Some people do have allergic reactions to gold: search google for "gold dermatitis" for some references. Although in some cases the reaction can be attributed to other components of the gold alloy (such as nickel), it seems that some people are reacting to the gold itself. A good article to read about the toxicity of gold in general is B. Merchant. Gold, the Noble Metal and the Paradoxes of its Toxicology. Biologicals 1998, 26, 49-59.  --Itub 16:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I find it most interesting that the author of the article you suggest I read re: toxicity of gold insists that I pay out $30 US for the privilege; I think not. All other information I can find on the subject would suggest minor possible toxic effects of injecting various gold compounds in to muscle and/or the bloodstream for medical reasons [usually, arthritis is described]. The NIH [US] and all published MSDS information indicates that no-one else considers gold to be a toxic material. I would be much more concerned about the toxicity of peanuts than gold. Drrocket 19:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but most of the scientific literature requires subscription and that doesn't make it any less valid. If you don't want to pay for the article, try to get it for free from a University library. I never said that you should worry about gold toxicity, just that there are documented cases in the mainstream scientific literature. Itub 10:50, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No need to apologise, this is a civilized discussion of a scientific topic. I am well aware that "most of the scientific literature requires subscription" in as much as I subscribe to a great deal of it [being the eclectic sort]. My point is simply that this is one article against many. Granted that it was, in all probability, peer-reviewed, the preponderance of paper indicating no specific biological damage due to exposure to gold under ordinary circumstances would, IMO, argue for caution in this area. For no other reason, I would think, than to avoid unnecessarily alarming the un-informed. Drrocket 04:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Wasnt thier an episode of House about gold poisoning? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.174.139.152 (talk) 14:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

Hardness of Gold
The Brinell hardness of gold in this article is incorrect in two ways.

First, the unit of measure for the Brinell hardness scale is the Brinell Hardness Number (BHN or, more commonly, HB), not Mpa as shown in this article.

Second, the hardness of gold using the Brinell hardness scale should be approximately 18 BHN to 25 BHN —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.63.60.158 (talk • contribs).


 * Brinell Hardness is not a unit but a dimension of pressure, we usually prefer SI units, that is, MPa instead of kgf/mm². No idea about the numbers, reference is hardnesses of the elements (data page), so far webelements.com is the only source. Interestingly, 25 &times; 9.81 = 245.25, so 2450 looks like a conversion error. Marked the value with a question mark for now. If you can provide more authoritative sources please do. Femto 16:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The Wikipedia entry on "brinell hardness" makes no reference to MPa. Compare gold's hardness to other metal's values.

I've noticed this is a bit fuzzy for a variety of elements. The actual units of (Brinell) hardness are, by definiton kg/mm2 (load divided by the indent area). Although the suffix HB can be used, it is common practice (at least here) to not use any units or identifier for the number. Sample hardness (Brinell) values are: Al 17, Cu 37, Au 18.5 Please see 'Integrated Circuit, Hybrid and Multichip package design guidelines' (Michael Pratt) table 5.1, page 101. Cheers, Peter Gress 01:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Ambiguous?
Quote from Applications section

"to corrosion and other desirable combinations of physical and chemical properties, gold also emerged in the late 20th century as an essential industrial metal, particularly as a thin plating on electrical card contacts and connectors."

Spcifically 'electrical card'. The meaning is unclear in North America; perhaps 'printed circuit board' would enhance clarity?

Drrocket 01:34, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, electrical card is more general (and certainly used in parts of North America as the more general term). For clarity, the word card can probably be eliminated if you like, to leave just electrical contacts and connectors - which certainly makes sense and is accurate in context.  WilyD 14:13, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Changed to "printed circuit board contacts". I've never heard the term "electrical card" in North America, and there's no WP article for it. There is one for PCBs. It could still be changed to "electrical connectors" for simplicity. eaolson 14:40, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Many 'electrical connectors' are not gold plated and this use might require further expansion for clarity while the use of gold plating on 'printed circuit board contacts' is nearly ubiquitous. 'electrical contacts' would, I think, also require expansion for clarity in that the term would include all electrical contacts such as those in light switches and electrical contactors [as in motor starters] and relays. I favor 'printed circuit board contacts' for brevity and clarity. Drrocket 09:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * While there is no article for "electrical card", there is one for expansion card and edge connector, which I believe is what the original statement was alluding to with the phrase "electrical card". --75.37.227.177 09:55, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

vandalism?
A moment ago when I got to this page it said "chloe is an imbred" right after the pronunciation parentheses. I looked in the "edit page" to take it out, but it wasn't there, instead it said "i enjoy"wanking. When I went back the phrase was gone. What's up with this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Todd212 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC).
 * Edits are always made to the current page so you didn't see the already reverted vandalism, but your web browser showed you a cached article until it was reloaded. Femto 21:03, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Gold medal
For some reason "gold medal" was in the list of compounds of gold. I can only assume this was a joke, so I went ahead and removed it. Mr. Accident 03:17, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Vandal
This page was vandalized so I reverted it. Sorry I didn't log in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.2.92.2 (talk) 18:42, 25 January 2007

Gold Concentration of Earth`s Crust is Incorrect
The article states that the concentration of gold in the Earth`s crust is 3ppm (3g/t). This is obviously untrue and is also contradicted by an earlier segment of the article stating that gold needs a concentration of at least 1g/t to be viably mined. If the article was correct then it would be economically viable to mine rock almost anywhere for the purpose of economically extracting gold.

Thee real concentration of gold in the Earth`s crust should be thousands of times less than that which is stated in the article. I have had a look at various articles on the internet and they give widly varying results, some which sound absolutely unbelievable. I can`t find anything that looks definative at the moment, but maybe someone else can.

STASI —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.219.144.207 (talk) 19:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC).


 * It should be about 3 parts per billion (10^9). See Abundances of the elements (data page). --Itub 09:44, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Looking to add properties
I've been looking for the TCR (temperature coefficient of resistance) of several materials including Gold, but couldn't find it here. It's an important physical property (at least for electrical engineers) to have and would be nice if someone authorized could add it. Here is a link with some TCRs for Gold and other metals: http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tutorials/temperature_coefficient_of_resistance_1_12_06.htm

Thanks WombofWoe 14:13, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

G-ORMES Gold
I believe that we should create or add to this article, G-ORMES Gold. The full details on G-ORMES materials and the gold itself can be found at www.asc-alchemy.com/patent.html.
 * Basically it is created two ways. Through Chemical extraction detailed on the page I have provided you with or by burning Gold at 6,000 Degrees Celcius for exactly 70 Seconds. The Gold is then reported to explode with a bright flash leaving in its wake a white, glassy powder. Strangely enough, despite having been patented as G-ORMES gold, the material has none of the properties of gold (which is why i suggest a separate article). The most remarkable thing about this material is that it is a superconductor at room temprature and will also create a Meisner Field when electric currents are introduced to it.
 * There are various articles on the internet detailing its medical properties too, which is why I suggest a wikipedia entry about this and other G-ORMES materials.
 * James Random 14:53, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Just out of curiosity, how does one obtain a temperature of 6,000 degrees Celsius in order to carry out this process?Drrocket 04:34, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd like to know how one creates a room temperature superconductor without attracting the attention of every electrical engineer and material scientist in the world. Not to mention without winning the Nobel Prize. eaolson 04:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The key would be not telling anyone about it - but unfortunately, then such material wouldn't have reliable sources WilyD 15:54, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Alas, alchemical crap like this, polluting the web-of-lies, is much like the water fuel cell (water-powered-car) and other things that Wikipedia must stand up to, despite presense of plenty of references, created by madmen and hucksters. Just think of it all as a offer from Maria M'Butu, whose dead husband was murdered by Nigerians, but managed to get all of his $100 million into a numbered bank account, which she needs your help to transfer out of the country. Which is why she's spamming you. Maybe G-ORMES gold will help you with this errand of mercy. Good luck, Mr. Random. S  B Harris 20:06, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually it was discovered by accident on three separate occasions and all from various places around the world. The first was on an archeological dig in Mount Horeb. Archeologists discovered what they thought to be a temple, but which was later discovered to be a huge smelting furnace over 250,000 years old. the government put a D-Notice on it and all access cut off. The second was by a russian metallurgist who, out of idle curiosity, discovered what would happen if he burned a material at Sun Tempature for longer than he had been taught to do so. The result was the same powder. The third was By Dave Hudson, a dirt farmer from arizona. he discovered it through chemical extraction of sulphuric acid from high sodium soil. quite by accident i assure you.
 * To answer your questions. One, I don't know how you get that temprature, except in an arc furnace. But burning materials at that temprature is a tried and tested means of analyzing alloys and compounds. As the various materials in an alloy or material reach their boiling tempratures, they boil away and a computer analyzes and identifies that material. It is practiced to be burned at 15 - 20 seconds to get these readings. At 70, you get G-ORMES gold.

To answer the second question, you don't create a room temprature superconductor without every electrical engineer in the world hearing about it. You also don't create one without the pharmeceutical and oil companies hearing about it since not only is G-ORMES a supply of free and renewable energy, it also has various healing properties. There are more and more websites cropping up here and there, one even with a video demonstratingthe uses of G-ORMES gold.


 * "To answer the second question, you don't create a room temprature superconductor without every electrical engineer in the world hearing about it. You also don't create one without the pharmeceutical and oil companies hearing about it since not only is G-ORMES a supply of free and renewable energy, it also has various healing properties." Why, of course it does! All magical substances do. S  B Harris 05:01, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The best thing is to read Dave Hudsons website and make your own mind up as to whether it shoudl get some sort of mention in the article. James Random 14:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I read his page and the patent. Drrocket 04:48, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I've read the webpage. Scientifically speaking, it's complete gibberish. I would be curious to know how he measured superconductivity in this material. That's not really a trivial thing to do. I looked for this patent at the USPTO, and it doesn't seem to exist there. So either it's a patent that has been filed and not approved, or was rejected, or it is a "patent" that exists only on this webpage.
 * Since anyone can start a webpage, I don't really consider this a reliable source. eaolson 14:04, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Eaolson, I was considering how to respond when I encountered your excellent reply, thank you. 'Gibberish' is a kinder word than I, perhaps, would have used... Drrocket 13:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * And BTW, a granted US patent is not a reliable source of ANYTHING, except that that patent office took your money, upon a finding that you're claiming something that nobody else has claimed before. I could patent an antigravity device or a resurrection machine for dead pets (and dead people, too, for that matter), with NO problem. The patent office would take my money, and the patent would issue with my name on it, I promise. To my everlasting shame, because that doesn't mean the machines would actually work. The patent office doesn't do any tests. They only machine they demand a working model of, is perpetual motion machines. An issued patent cannot be used as a Wikipedia WP:ATT reference regarding any issue of workability, or usability, or scientific validity. None. An issued patent only speaks to the issues of novelty of claim (so far as the patent office is concerned) and the fact that the patent exists. Which existance itself only (again) speaks to the issue of decided claim novelty, patent-wise. S  B Harris 18:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Read the literature!!
I would have edited the article myself, because you have a lot of inaccurate information about medical uses and toxicity in there. But it is a locked article... So... go to http://www.springerlink.com/content/2thwkn8tu8v36uq3/fulltext.pdf and read the literature, then correct the article... oliver(dot)scheiber(at)gmail(dot)com 131.130.60.201 14:44, 17 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Um, the article you linked to is about treating rheumatoid arthritis with gold salts. It doesn't really talk about toxicity at all, and these salts clearly aren't terribly toxic if they're being used in a therapeutic way. It doesn't seem to say anything about gold in its metallic form. As for the semi-protection issue, creating an account will allow you to edit semi-protected pages after four days. eaolson 04:37, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

How to test, is it gold?
Well, I'm interested in: how at home to test, is it gold, without any advanced tools. I think, not only I would be interested in it and it do have practical value. So that should be mentioned in article. 159.148.71.250 11:18, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, people used to bite into gold to see if it is gold but they won't break their teeth becuase many people know that gold is malleable.But if it isn't gold then the people who bite into gold would probably break their teeth and they would know it isn't gold :P.Sylvan wu 23:57, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Save your teeth - buy a gold test kit. Simple acid test kits are available from jeweller's and goldsmith's suppliers. Google for "gold testing equipment". Plantsurfer 07:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Ahh, yes, but back then in the 1800's I don't think they had a gold test kit and, lets just say you find a ounce of gold in your backyard, if you want to test quickly if its a ounce of gold, not copper or fool's gold then you can bite into it.And also you don't have to bite it hard, you can settle your teeth on the bit of gold and put your teeth together and bite harder and harder and then lift it from your mouth to see if it moved or if there is a bite mark.(that is because gold is malleable(that means that it can be worked into any shape))FACT:Pure Gold is 24 carats(gold is measured in carats, ounces E.T.C, E.T.C.Oh yeah and a word of advise: WASH THE GOLD BEFORE YOU BITE(^.^) :P :)Sylvan wu 12:16, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Amount of gold extracted
I don't have a problem with having a sentance telling us how much gold has been extracted. However, this sentance just seems silly: A) as User:Plantsurfer says, this information is already contained elsewhere in the article, B) Conventionally gold is measured by mass, not volume. C) Even if volume is appropriate, then for goodness sake let's just say "xx cubic metres", NOT "a cube measuring yy meters ...". Dontdoit
 * The volume of a cube of the amount of gold extracted is an illustrative example. Not everyone is able to convert a mass into a volume (apparently including you!) to imagine the amount. Plantsurfer removed the information, because it was wrong due to your edit! I have therefore added the information again. --Leyo 12:12, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

aurum definition
from the chinese wikipedia definition '金':

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25E9%2587%2591&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsite:wikipedia.org%2B%25E9%2587%2591%26num%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dopera%26rls%3Den%26hs%3Dq9y%26sa%3DG

The symbol for Au, from the Latin name (Aurum). Aurum from Aurora and the word "brilliant dawn."

66.157.55.111 19:57, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Color
I edited this entry to include cesium as a colored metal. It originally stated that gold and copper were the only colored metals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greenhorn1 (talk • contribs) 04:20, 11 August 2007


 * Removed as excess detail for the lead - feel free to re-add under properties. Vsmith 14:35, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Question
is gold the heaviest metal (sorry i didn't read the article) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sylvan wu (talk • contribs) 18:59, 12 August 2007 (UTC) i thought that the periodic table would just be a table saying heaviest metal:?????????second heaviest metal:??????????e.t.c down to lightiest metal:????????????? but i did know that lead is pretty heavy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sylvan wu (talk • contribs) 07:09, 13 August 2007 (UTC) then is there a table that says heaviest metal:?????????second heaviest metal:??????????e.t.c down to lightiest metal:????????????? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sylvan wu (talk • contribs). I read peaces of the article but it still didn't answer, I wanted to kniw how you purify the gold once its dug out, anybody got an answer for me??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.243.87.37 (talk) 16:19, August 28, 2007 (UTC)
 * No, if you look at the periodic table, there are a number of others. Mercury, lead, bismuth, for example.
 * No, the periodic table is based on chemical properties, not weight. Of course, the definition for the "heaviest metal" really depends on what you mean by "heaviest." Lead has a higher atomic weight, but a lower density. eaolson 18:03, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, it depends on what you mean by "heaviest". The periodic table is pretty much ordered in terms of atomic weight. If you mean density, no I don't think so. eaolson 00:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

The article states that the heavieest metal is Iridium. When you go to the Osmium page in Wiki it states there that Osmium isotope is the heavist metal. Perhaps it would be clearer to delete the heaviest metal comment from the Gold page? PeterBaruch (talk) 20:35, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

How to clean gold
How do you clean gold Jewellery ChristianB 09:33, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't need to. Gold doesn't oxidise the same way silver does. If it's dirty, it might not be real gold. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.82.236 (talk) 20:36, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That doesn't mean it can't get dirty. You can clean it any way you like. Pure gold stands up well to any cleaning solution, obviously. S  B Harris 00:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The gentlest way to clean gold is with a detergent solution and a soft brush. Jewellers use an ultrasonic bath to get the dirt out of crevices, between the links of chains, etc. They are very effective and cost only a few pounds/dollars/euros. Do not be tempted to use bleach or other strong oxidisers on carat gold.Plantsurfer (talk) 08:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Origin of All Gold
All the gold in the universe was forged by a supernova. It is the only cellestial body that can produce elements with more protons than lead. MasonicLamb 20:07, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

This discounts the Creationist theory that the universe was created by a higher being. If you wish to include that, you would need to place this as well to avoid bias. RedZionX 00:43, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Uh, no. That would be giving undue weight to a fringe theory. eaolson 00:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey, I doubt it... I was actually exactly looking for this, i.e. how gold was ever formed on earth. If not by supernova, or any such phenomenon, how could all the heavy elements get created in the first place? I think this cannot be discarded as a fringe theory, though I think it needs to be given proper references. Elncid (talk) 13:13, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

gold
gold is on the periodic table of elements —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.161.163.105 (talk) 21:06, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is. Excellent observation. RedZionX 18:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Why is gold not on the list for Au i serched for Au and gold was not on the list —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.15.131.253 (talk) 06:15, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Why is iridium mentioned as the densest element?
and not osmium? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.109.169.84 (talk) 16:48, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know 129.59.8.10 (talk) 19:30, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

See Iridium - the two are so close in density, it's hard to tell which is really denser, as pure, single crystal samples are hard to come by. Ben (talk) 12:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The Latin word "aurum" means "gold"
not dawn. It may share a root with "Aurora", which means "dawn", but it does not in itself mean "dawn."  Serendi pod ous  07:45, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Top 8 Gold Countries
-Country-Production in Tons South Africa                     400 United-States                    350 Australia                        290 China                            185 Russia                           175 Canada                           160 Perou                            140 Indonesia                        120  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.119.42 (talk) 14:08, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Clarifications would be good
Under "Occurrence":


 * Native gold is also found in the form of free flakes, grains or larger nuggets that have been eroded from rocks and end up in alluvial deposits (called placer deposits). Such free gold is always richer at the surface of gold-bearing veins owing to the oxidation of accompanying minerals followed by weathering, and washing of the dust into streams and rivers, where it collects and can be welded by water action to form nuggets.

1. This is slightly contradictory because first it say that nuggets are eroded (as nuggets) from rock, and then later it says they are welded by water action after having been eroded. It's possible that both are true, or perhaps only the second.

2. I'm not sure what the point of the statement "Such free gold is always richer at the surface of gold-bearing veins" is, or how the "because" follows. If the gold originates in the veins then it seems plain obvious that it's found near them -- or perhaps the point being made is that it doesn't usually wash far away from the veins? Or does it mean "richer at the surface" as opposed to "richer within the veins"? But then you wouldn't find "alluvial" gold in the veins themselves would you? Basically I just don't get what this is trying to say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.129.141 (talk • contribs)


 * I suggest you get in there and start turning it into sense! And while you're at it, why don't you register?? Best wishes, Plantsurfer (talk) 10:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Literature
William Shakespeare The Most Excellent and Lamentable Tragedy of Romeo and Juliet http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/1ws1610.txt

Rom. There is thy gold- worse poison to men's souls, Doing more murther in this loathsome world, Than these poor compounds that thou mayst not sell. I sell thee poison; thou hast sold me none. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.48.43.97 (talk) 12:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

King Henry IV http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/1ws2110.txt Henry IV., sec. part, act iv. sc. v.   PRINCE HENRY: Coming to look on you, thinking you dead, And dead almost, my liege, to think you were, I spake unto this crown as having sense, And thus upbraided it: "The care on thee depending Hath fed upon the body of my father,   Therefore, thou best of gold art worst of gold;    Other less fine in carat is more precious,    Preserving life in medicine potable." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.52.33.185 (talk) 17:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Yellow gold redirects to this article, but no definition.
Thanks. Imagine Reason (talk) 18:05, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It's defined graphically in the illustration labelled "Different colours of Ag-Au-Cu alloys."87.81.230.195 (talk) 04:41, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Rose gold
In the Jewelry section, the article states that 25% copper and 75% gold produces rose (also known as Russian) gold, which has a more coppery cast than pure gold. It then goes on to say that 14K gold with the remaining % being made of copper is similar in color to certain bronze alloys. This is confusing as bronze is generally understood to have a brassy/yellow gold color. Is the author saying that those certain bronze alloys are more coppery than yellow gold/brass, or is the author claiming that 14K gold with copper alone will actually be closer to the color of pure gold than 18K gold with copper? Wanted to discuss it here rather than just editing it myself, as I am not sure which is the case.Theseeker4 (talk) 00:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

American or British English?
In the earliest edit on the history, the spelling of words such as "color" is in American English. As per Wikipedia policy, the article should remain and be consistently written in American English. Recent edits by Connorbourke have changed spelling from American to British English. I have reverted these edits.Theseeker4 (talk) 13:10, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Minerals vs native or alloyed gold
The "Occurrence" section makes a distinction between "minerals" -- which include the tellurides, other rare compounds, and alloys/amalgams with copper, lead and mercury -- and what by implication are not minerals, namely native gold and electrum. Is this distinction valid? Matt 21:31, 3 November 2008 (UTC).

"Prevalence"
Came here seeking 1) corroboration of CCTV's claim that China passsed South Africa in gold production and 2) info on the total amount of gold in the earth's crust. Found first, but nothing on the second which in the old en days used to be a common encyclopaedic element. Is it debunked, a now unknown unknown, or what? Lycurgus (talk) 06:33, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Abundances of the elements (data page) currently has a basis for what I was getting at which is the amount available given current means of production. 72.228.150.44 (talk) 12:48, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Legal Definition of Gold
'Gold' in Wikipedia is missing a legal perspective and definition. The 'Gold' article is also lacking a link in the "See Also" section for Fiat Currency as these are in effect related in law in terms of negotiable and non-negotiable instruments.

Gold is an element but it is also money. Most central banks that hold reserves may only buy and sell gold, silver, nickel and bronze coin or any other coin and gold and silver bullion. This is determined by Acts which limit the powers of the banks as to what type of reserves they are allowed to hold. These limitations are typically defined in Currency Acts and Banking Acts.

The distinction between a true commodity and gold begins with the fact that central banks may not hold wheat, oil or other commodities in terms of reserves. The central banks of the world are generally limited to "precious metals" and at times "base metals" which must typically be held in the form of minted base metal coins with face value. In other words, central banks must hold money.

Gold is also not a negotiable instrument as it fails the legal test. This is one of the primary reasons why gold cannot be solely regarded as a commodity and has the function of money.

"A negotiable instrument is a signed writing (record) that contains an unconditional promise or order to pay an exact sum of money on demand or at a specified future time to a specific person or order, or to the bearer. Negotiable instruments can function as substitutes for money or as an extension of credit." - BUSINESS LAW TODAY: THE STANDARD EDITION. THE ESSENTIALS

All fiat currencies, notes and bank notes must have signatures, which is what makes them negotiable and legal tender in their domestic country. In Canada they are guaranteed by the Deputy Governor and Governor. US Dollars are signed or guaranteed by the Treasurer of the United States and the Secretary of the United States.

A generally accepted legal distinction between metals is as follows to determine if a metal can be utilized as currency.

"base metal" means any metal other than precious metal. "precious metal" means gold, silver, platinum or any of the platinum group of metals.

Typically, only precious metals can be utilized as currency and at times base metals can be utilized if they are minted and have a face value.

A commonly held view is that gold can appreciate or depreciate but this is innately false. Linked in with new mining supply, gold's rise in price relative to fiat currencies worldwide is merely a function of the increase in new money supply by central banks which can debase or improve the value of a particular currency. The devaluation of a particular currency is then reflected in the increase in price of gold as well all consumer goods denominated in the domestic currency where the gold price is calculated.

The purchase and sale of gold bullion for personal purposes cannot represent a capital gain as it fails the test of a gain in capital.

"capital" as defined by Black Law dictionary, 2nd Edition "The actual estate, whether in money or property, which is owned by an individual or corporation. In reference to a corporation it is the aggregate sum subscribed and paid in, by the shareholders, with the addition of all gains or profits realized in the use and investment of those sums, or, if losses have been incurred, then it is the residue after deducting such losses. And, when used with respect to the property of individuals in any particular business, the term has a substantially the same import; it then means the property taken from other investments or uses and set apart for and invested in the special business, and which the increase, proceeds, or earning of which property beyond expenditures incurred in its use consists the profits made in the business."

When gold bullion is purchased and not utilized to perform a business function the bearer of the gold bullion can see the price of the bullion fluctuate with the current market value of its gold content. This is also true for silver and platinum bullion content. Therefore the purchase or sale of bullion at a particular time is entirely based on the increase or decrease value of the fiat currency (bank note) conversion rate and fails the test of currency speculation as long as the gold is purchased and sold domestically in the same fiat currency with which it was originally purchased.

In contrast, currency speculation can be characterized as an investment into a fiat currency with hopes that the foreign nation's economic performance and central money planning will outperform those of another currency. For example, an Australian purchasing Euro's is speculating that the Euro money supply and economic performance of the European Union will outperform the Australian economy and/or the rate of domestic inflation. In this scenario the test of capital gains is met as net gains or loss can be realized.

Precious metals such as silver, gold, or platinum bars, wafers, or coins sold at a price greater than the value of their metal content, and purchased primarily for their value as collectibles also do represent a net gain in capital as the initial purchase cannot be contrived as purely held as an alternative to domestic fiat currency.
 * Look, the wiki you're looking for is Fiat money. Take your economic arguments there, or to the Representative money or Money talk pages. You may want to see Currency or History of central banking in the United States or somesuch. This is not the finance or banking page, or a soapbox for theories in those fields. S  B Harris 02:52, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Harris you are wrong, now will you be able to admit it? Please provide one (1) single citation from any country in the world, in law, which refutes the facts discussed herein.

More on this


 * The use of gold for 6000 years as money and its worldwide legal status as money simply cannot be arbitrarily divorced from the gold element today, nor in the near future. Some 30+ years ago the entire world worked on the basis of hard money, and reflected in the Bretton Woods agreement. The suggestion by Harris that the status of gold is an economic argument is hog wash. The soapbox smear also does not pass the test of logic as it does not provide specific criticism and is not based on a any factual premise. Furthermore, verifiable factual evidence that gold can be exchanged and held for deposit exists on a worldwide scale. I cannot find the soapbox theory in worldwide scale, nor can I find a citation for soapbox theory.


 * Banks are not required by law to accept anything for deposit other than what is set out in the Banking Acts (how banks must conduct themselves), Central Banking Acts (legal tender denominations) and Bills of Exchange Acts (negotiable instruments) (Note: The name of the Acts do vary from country to country). This means that banks on a worldwide scale will not accept for deposit bushels of wheat, barrels of crude oil, cotton, plutonium etc... The monetary units and elements of the periodic table eligible for deposits at banks are set out in law which specifically includes gold.


 * It's true that gold can be utilized for many purposes, it's an element, store of wealth, has many commercial applications, and can be worn as jewlery. If the concept of multi-usage element is difficult to grasp, think of gold in terms of geometry, such as a square (money) is also mathematically (legally) a rectangle (commodity). Another truth is that the legal tender paper money in your purse or wallet is also dual purpose. When a paper-based fiat currency holds a promise (faith) of value it can be exchanged for goods and services. When the currency collapses (loss of faith in ability to meet obligations) such as the Icelandic Krona (Nov 2008), Weimar Mark (1920s), these can be burned or used as toilet paper (which is also backed by real world evidence). Gold cannot, and has never been used for toilet paper or fire wood, unless a citation can be provided here again.


 * Since Harris clearly demonstrated by his comment on March 22, 2008 that he/she does not have any background in banking, but well versed in 'scientific purposes only' propaganda, can someone ELSE please CONFIRM that banks are required by law to accept for deposit gold, silver, metals of the platinum family, minted base metals and legal tender set out in the Acts of the nation where the bank is operating. (It sure is a sad day for higher learning that this even has to be contested.)


 * Gold is what it is, this information does not belong in any other topic than its own.


 * Gold and precious metals are the only store-of-wealth/debt-settling instruments that do not suffer from counter-party risk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.65.204.141 (talk) 15:06, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Gold poisoning

 * There are rare cases of lethal gold poisoning from potassium gold cyanide.

Sounds more like cyanide poisoning to me. Can this toxicity really be attributed to the gold content? 86.137.136.135 (talk) 04:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

That's correct, the cyanide is toxic, not the gold. Plantsurfer (talk) 08:05, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Reference link broken
Reference link #3 is broken; corrected link for doi page: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.chemphys.2004.09.023 148.87.1.167 (talk) 02:02, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

wat does emeralod mean —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.199.46.41 (talk) 00:07, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Rose Gold?
i read some where that rose gold was made from an iron gold alloy not a copper gold alloy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.4.151.151 (talk) 04:32, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Not that I have ever heard of. It is the reddish color of the copper that gives gold its "rose" tone. The   Seeker 4   Talk  12:17, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

BC or BCE?
I just reverted an uncommented change of a BCE to BC, but then noticed will still have a mix of these in the article. What's the policy here? I assume it at least says we should be consistent, no? Dicklyon (talk) 07:20, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * As per WP:ERA neither style BCE vs. BC is preferred over the other. It just says don't change without good reason. Thus, if you found one used and it consistent, don't change them all to the other. If not consistent to begin with, pick the most commonly used one and fix the rest and then stick with it. S  B Harris 21:53, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

A simple method for production of colloidal gold
sodium hypochlorite (concentration 15% - bleach sodium) + hydrochloric acid (concentration 5% - muriatic acid) + gold dust (filings of gold) [HAZARD! Chlorine gas !!!!] --- 48-56 h ---> Gold chloride (yellow-gold solution)

Gold chloride (yellow-gold solution) + sodium bicarbonate ---> precipitated eventual copper carbonate (blue - green), Gold chloride remains in solution (yellow-gold), sodium bicarbonate acts as pH Buffer System and reduce acidity (strong effervescence !)

Gold chloride solution + saccharose (sucrose) or glucose --- 24-48h ---> Colloidal Gold (purple shades) or "purple of Cassius"

try it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.24.83.191 (talk) 17:08, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Formatting
Resolved. The disambiguous link preceeds infoboxes and article content in an effort to aid other editors and, of course, our readers. I will again correct this unless there is some compelling reason not to. Benji boi 23:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Per WP:HNP, I'm correcting this, the needs of all the readers come before the ease of those interested in just this subject and the other elements. Benji boi 23:44, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, but do it in such a way that it doesn't open up two feet of blank space alongside the infobox.Plantsurfer (talk) 23:46, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Corrected. Benji boi 00:31, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

For the sake of reference for uppity "new" moderators
The "gold" article, it was littered with spelling inconsistencies in both forms of English. It has been reverted to it's incorrect form in violation of Wiki policy by a "new" user.

The original form of the article was in one form of English; and amendments added in American English.

Wikipedia policy is that articles are kept in the original form of English used (rather than separating them into two forms as is the case with Norwegian).

Please read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Consistency_within_articles Then please, revert the changes.

Without naming names, it is against Wiki policy to immediately refer to article changes as Vandalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vandalism
 * Nothing in that article actually says that. See WP:ATWV. Otherwise: "As a result, the word 'vandal' should not be used in reference to any contributor in good standing or to any edits that can arguably be construed as good-faithed. If the edits in question are made in good faith, they are not vandalism and the contributor should not be called a 'vandal'." But that's not to say nobody should, ever. Some actions speak for themselves.   S  B Harris 04:46, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, actually it does say something about it under "bold edits" in the bottom table... but I don't think it hurt to just post the whole Vandalism page so that readers could find their own way through to the link you posted that was where I actually wanted to lead people to.
 * You are missing the important "bread" in that "sandwich":
 * "any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not ::vandalism." ... "Non-vandalism disruption may also occur. Instead of calling a person committing ::such disruption a 'vandal', you are better off discussing his or her specific edits with him or her. ::Comment on the content and substance of his or her edits or arguments, not his or her person."
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Vww
 * The point is that the charge of "vandal" is not one to be deployed casually and it was a kneejerk reaction to simply revert my efforts to tidy up the article according to Wikipolicy, and then land on my talk page with the charge of vandalism - it ain't friendly. It's clumsy sysop-ing like this that results in the unnecessary blocking of editors who get justifiably upset and rant back. You would expect those who put on their talk page that they are involved in anti-vandalism to be pretty familiar with the contents of the Wikipolicy page contents on Vandalism, wouldn't you?
 * I'm not suggesting it should never be used; but it should be used with caution, because you can seriously affect people's reputations; same goes for "troll", which seems to have quite different connotations in Britain and America.
 * Now let's all kiss and make up! I simply started reading the article, and the spelling switched from British to American... etc... I know the policy... I acted according to it in good faith... didn't think anyone would either notice, or be that bothered. Though there are some who think that all English articles should be in American-English and burst a blood vessel when they encounter perfectly intelligible British English. It's always been this way on Wikipedia... I remember having this row about 6 years ago... there was a lot less moderation of language then I can tell you (god I sound old!).

&quot;I&#39;m just some bloke off t&#39;inter&#39;&quot; (talk) 22:17, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Note that in the second revision to Gold, way back when, American spelling was introduced. Thanks for the helpful vandalism link. Cheers, OhNo itsJamie Talk 03:31, 26 March 2008

(UTC)
 * Are you saying that the original edition was in British English, or that the original edition was in American English? Whichever, the policy as I remember it was that reversions should be to the original dialect&quot;I&#39;m just some bloke off t&#39;inter&#39;&quot; (talk) 22:26, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Inverted alchemy
I recall a documentary in England whereby placing gold on a television screen and leaving it to be bombarded for a few weeks resulted in it being broken down into lead. Fiction? Or is there still some evidence to support this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.92.202.253 (talk • contribs)


 * Unless your television in the middle of a nuclear reactor, that's pretty much impossible. Though if you've got a reference, I'd love to see it. eaolson (talk) 22:14, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It doesn't work in Scotland. Plantsurfer (talk) 08:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Well Lead is a larger element than gold, so properly gold does not 'break down' into lead, but has to be built up into lead. Anyways, modern nuclear transmutation has been successful in the lead into gold reaction, as well as the reverse reaction gold into lead. Unfortunately, lead into gold is not currently economically viable, and neither reaction is so easy to produce that it can be accomplished within the household. Then again, once a society has learned how to transmute gold, it would have a real interest in claiming the process wasn't energy-efficient while it secretly produced a large quantity of gold, so who really knows? —Preceding unsigned comment added by CerberusAlpha (talk • contribs) 21:26, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Contradictory statements
"However, only salts and radioisotopes of gold are of pharmacological value, as elemental (metallic) gold is inert to all chemicals it encounters inside the body"

"The technique of immunogold labeling exploits the ability of the gold particles to adsorb protein molecules onto their surfaces."

If it sticks to protein molecules, it's not inert to all chemicals inside the body. The second statement is referenced, the first isn't. --Calibas (talk) 01:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Gold in the eyes and nails
Gold in the eyes:

- P. J. Prouse, J. J. Kanski, and J. M. Gumpel Corneal chrysiasis and clinical improvement with chrysotherapy in rheumatoid arthritis Ann Rheum Dis. 1981 December; 40(6): 564–566. - E. ZAMIR, R. READ, J. AFFELDT, D. RAMASWAMY, and N. RAO Gold induced interstitial keratitis Br J Ophthalmol. 2001 November; 85(11): 1384.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1723786&blobtype=pdf

- Duggan JN, Nanavati BP. Tattooing of corneal opacity with gold and platinum chloride. Br J Ophthalmol. 1936 Jul;20(7):419-25. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1142682&blobtype=pdf

- A D Singh, P Puri1 and R S Amos Deposition of gold in ocular structures, although known, is rare. A case of ocular chrysiasis in a patient of rheumatoid arthritis on gold treatment is presented Eye (2004) 18, 443–444.

- McCormick SA, DiBartolomeo AG, Raju VK, Schwab IR. Ocular chrysiasis. Ophthalmology. 1985 Oct;92(10):1432-5. “Our data suggest that gold is deposited in the cornea and lens from the anterior chamber aqueous fluid.”

Gold in the nails: yellow Nail:

- Kanabrocki E, Case LF, Graham LA, Fields T, Oester YT, Kaplan E. Neutron-activation studies of trace elements in human fingernail. J Nucl Med. 1968 Sep;9(9):478-81.

http://jnm.snmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/9/9/478.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.24.84.17 (talk) 17:19, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

- Roest MA, Ratnavel R. Yellow nails associated with gold therapy for rheumatoid arthritis. Br J Dermatol. 2001 Nov;145(5):855-6

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/120697438/PDFSTART

-David-Vaudey E, Jamard B, Hermant C, Cantagrel A. Yellow nail syndrome in rheumatoid arthritis: a drug-induced disease? Clin Rheumatol. 2004 Aug;23(4):376-8. Epub 2004 May 4.

- Ichikawa Y, Shimizu H, Arimori S. "Yellow nail syndrome" and rheumatoid arthritis. Tokai J Exp Clin Med. 1991 Dec;16(5-6):203-9.

- Fam AG, Paton TW. Nail pigmentation after parenteral gold therapy for rheumatoid arthritis: "gold nails". Arthritis Rheum. 1984 Jan;27(1):119-20.

- Roest MA, Ratnavel R. Yellow nails associated with gold therapy for rheumatoid arthritis. Br J Dermatol. 2001 Nov;145(5):855-6

- Grimm V, Möhrenschlager M, Bruckbauer H, Köhler LD, Ring J. Ring-induced nail pitting? Acta Derm Venereol. 1999 Jan;79(1):82.

- Budden MG, Wilkinson DS. Skin and nail lesions from gold potassium cyanide. Contact Dermatitis. 1978 Jun;4(3):172-3.

- Voigt K, Holzegel K. [Permanent nail changes following gold therapy] German. Hautarzt. 1977 Aug;28(8):421-3.

- Gottlieb NL, Smith PM, Penneys NS, Smith EM. Gold concentrations in hair, nail, and skin during chrysotherapy. Arthritis Rheum. 1974 Jan-Feb;17(1):56-62.

- Kanabrocki E, Case LF, Graham LA, Fields T, Oester YT, Kaplan E. Neutron-activation studies of trace elements in human fingernail. J Nucl Med. 1968 Sep;9(9):478-81. http://jnm.snmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/9/9/478

- Mahler DJ, Scott AF, Walsh JR, Haynie G. A study of trace metals in fingernails and hair using neutron activation analysis. J Nucl Med. 1970 Dec;11(12):739-42.

- Gottlieb NL, Smith PM, Smith EM. Tissue gold concentration in a rheumatoid arthritic receiving chrysotherapy. Arthritis Rheum. 1972 Jan-Feb;15(1):16-22.

- Altmeyer P, Hufnagl D. [Chrysiasis. Side-effects of intramuscular gold therapy] [Article in German] Hautarzt. 1975 Jun;26(6):330-3. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.37.203 (talk) 12:21, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

New Gold Coloration was made
I recently found some information on a new color of gold that was made. It is brown in color and made by casting with another element that wasn't mentioned in the colored gold section. Do a google seach for brown gold press release and you should be able to find some more information. I didn't see anything mentioned in the page about it so I thought I would mention it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.119.18.131 (talk) 17:28, 25 July 2009 (UTC)