Talk:Golden Age of Piracy

Comments
I'm going to go check some books out on the subject. As of yet, I've only added a little bit on the subject. Also, since the Golden Age's supposable start and end date are all over the place, should we just use one, or mention the debate over it's time period? User:Caciss

I removed the "unreferenced" tag because I added several external links -- however, the article itself still needs improvement. Drew 04:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I added a little bit about Bart Roberts as he is from this period. (Darth)

ÁÛķĶå== Sid Meier's Pirates! ==

Why is Pirates! shown in this article? The game is primarily concerned with piracy in the 17th century, not the early 18th century. The latest start date you can choose is 1680, and I'm not sure it is possible to have your character survive into the Golden Age of Piracy.


 * What other picture would you propose?


 * I removed the Pirates! image and replaced it with the painting. Xombie 23:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * i rom rom

Very confusing --> End of the seventeenth century?
The first paragraph of this article doesn't make sense. It says that the Golden Age of Piracy arose "with the end of the seventeenth century approaching," but then it gives the years as being a few decades into the eighteenth century. Can someone more knowledgeable in this area than I am re-word this so it makes sense? I think I know what you're going for -- the circumstances of the late seventeenth century gave rise to the Golden Age a few decades later? -- but right now it's very hard to understand. 68.175.61.17 22:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It seems to simply be a line, from the first version of the article -- that for whatever reason -- I overlooked. Yes, there was definantly build-up at this period, but the Treaty of Utrecht the ultimate source.  Of course, there is still the debate one when the Golden Age of Piracy began and ended.  I'll reword it, for improved clarification -- however, assistance in this article would be greatly appreciated. Devin

Massive Revision Needed
I came across this article by chance. Much of what I see in a quick reading is contradicted by The Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea. What first caught my attention was the schooner in the admittedly nice picture: the first schooner was launched in 1730, the date the article marks as the end of the period. While Oxford places the end of the "classic" age of piracy in as 1750, a schooner is still not typical for the period. The lack of topsails on the schooner and the plain--even semi-clipper--bow of the merchant ship suggests to me something like a century later than the period.

Next Oxford states that buccaneers are not pirates, but either technical privateers (the had letters of marque) or pretend privateers, who didn't have papers but acted like them in not attacking their own nation's ships.

Basically, someone needs to rewrite the article with an authoritative reference at hand, like Oxford. Unfortunately, I cannot do so at the present, but Oxford should be easy to find.


 * The Oxford book is inaccurate with reference to the launch date of the first schooner. The Tryals of Stede Bonnet, a contemporary source available in print, makes clear reference to the "scooner" being used in 1718.  Admittedly, the picture may still be anachronistic.


 * "Pretend privateering" such as that engaged in by buccaneers is in fact piracy, the attacking of a ship without commission from a sovereign nation. Nevertheless, there is no clear consensus on whether the buccaneering period is part of the Golden Age of Piracy. Pirate Dan 18:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I have found proof that the picture is indeed anachronistic. It appears in Pirates: Terror on the High Seas From the Caribbean to the South China Sea, edited by David Cordingly, p. 178.  The book identifies the scene as Robert Surcouf's attack on the Hope.  Surcouf's career spanned the 1790s and the first decade of the 19th century, which would not fit any definition of the Golden Age of Piracy.  I will remove the painting and try to locate a suitable replacement. Pirate Dan (talk) 14:04, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Pirate articles
I agree with the above statement--there are various sources claiming the begining of the Golden Age was around 1680 and other dates. Please post a verfication of the 1690 date.

Also, I'm going to argue with the origins of piracy. People didn't just go "Oh, I think I'll be a pyrate!" when the war ended; there were various other reasons. At this point, the statemenet is original research--whoever posted it, please post your citation.

There is also no mention of Pirate constitutions, which were counteractions towards towards the situation and high mortality rate they faced.

...and also, I added a PROPER citation to Rekider. *sighs* I will be cleaning up and adding to this section when I get the chance. Kyuu 02:43, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Golden Age: when and why
Does anyone know who first popularized the concept of a "Golden Age" of piracy? The earliest use of the phrase I've seen is Doug Botting's The Pirates from TimeLife Books' The Seafarers series, published in 1978. In that book he refers to the Golden Age as running from about 1690 to 1722. That's basically from Thomas Tew's first expedition to the hanging of Bartholomew Roberts' pirates at Cape Coast Castle.

I would contend that the concept of a "Golden Age" of piracy includes three possible elements.

1) That time period when pirates were most numerous in a given area.

2) That time period when the financial rewards of piracy were greatest.

3) That time period which has the most influence on the present-day popular visualization of pirates.

Defining a continuous "Golden Age" of piracy may not be possible. Almost every effort I've seen groups together two or three of the following widely separated time periods:

1) Elizabethan piracy, about 1567-1600. This period includes a lot of element 2, financial reward, because of Drake's capture of the Manila galleon and Peruvian silver train.  But it has very little of element 1 - piracy was not much more common then compared to other eras.  And it has almost none of element 3: the average modern person who hears the word "pirate" doesn't think of a guy in a ruff and baggy short pants who is likely to use a crossbow or matchlock gun.  The only Elizabethan elements in the modern image of the pirate are the rapier and the galleon.  And worst of all, the Elizabethan sea dogs were no more than borderline pirates; they thought of themselves as soldiers and were treated as such by their queen.

2) The Tortuga/Port Royal buccaneering period, about 1660-1682.  This period includes element 1 - lots of pirates; the shores of Tortuga and Jamaica teemed with Brethren of the Coast.  It includes element 2, financial reward, but not from the popularly imagined sources, like galleons stuffed with gold and silver.  Most of the big jackpots from this era were plundered towns like Maracaibo.  And it probably has the most of element 3: rapiers and knuckle-bow cutlasses both used contemporaneously, bucket-topped boots (worn by gentlemen, though maybe not by real pirates), broad-brimmed hats with plumes, flintlock guns, long Captain-Hook-style wigs, and fiendish tortures by guys like l'Ollonois and Morgan.

3) The Roundsman period, about 1690-1700.  This doesn't have so much of element 1.  There weren't that many Roundsmen, and most sailors were tied up in the naval service during the War of the Grand Alliance.  It has a huge amount of element 2, especially with Tew, Avery and Kidd all hitting the jackpot in the Indian Ocean, by robbing ships, not towns.  It has a lot of element 3, especially tricorne hats.  But it loses some of the things the buccaneer period had, especially the bucket boots and the rapiers, which are now being replaced by buckle shoes and smallswords.  Also, at this time piracy is losing its air of military respectability and beoming more of the "against all flags" affair represented in the movies by Errol Flynn.

4) The post-Spanish Succession period, about 1715-1725. This has a huge amount of element 1, probably the most pirates the Western world ever saw, with all the navy sailors discharged and all the privateer letters of marque being revoked.  Pirates in this period ranged from the Caribbean to West Africa to Madagascar, and Bartholomew Roberts robbed over 400 ships.  But it has a lot less of element 2: although John Taylor and Oliver LaBuze did strike it rich with the Nossa Senhora do Cabo, basically all the other pirates, even Roberts, were just scraping by.  As for element 3: this era has Blackbeard.  'Nuff said.

Pirate Dan 07:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Excellent roundup. I would add that, from what I've heard "Golden Age" used for--ancient Greece as the "Golden Age" of civilization, the "Golden Age of Comics," etc.--it's never really been the subject's pinnacle, financially, culturally, or by popularity, but more the subject's initial explosion, where the contrast with its previous non-existence, or scant existence (or scant popularity), made the subject suddenly seem ubiquitous.


 * Another important thing might be that the Golden Age of Piracy doesn't necessarily have to conform to the symbols we associate with pirates (hats, hooks, "arrrr," etc.), since we merely attach those symbols to things we think of and aren't necessarily the things themselves. For instance, the Vikings never really wore horned hats, but Hägar the Horrible always will. Cherry Cotton (talk) 13:18, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Added "incomplete"
I note that a number of people are attempting to work out the exact (or approximate) dates or sets of dates for the (multiple?) "Golden Age(s) of Piracy". However, untill something comes of it, an articel on a "Golden Age" of anything that doesn't give any dates for the "Age" is incomplete. 68.39.174.238 22:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Definition
The article needs a clear definition as the first sentence; as is, it only states where the Golden Age of Piracy occurred. I don't know much about the subject, so creating a definition would be better left to others. --MatthewLiberal 01:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Anybody going to work on this article?
I see no comments from 2008. If anyone wants to work on this article, i will help. Contact me on my talk page. Beam (talk) 15:54, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

What caused the end of the Golden Age of Piracy?
Would anyone care to provide insight into this? Aldrich Hanssen (talk) 16:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

whoops, read it wrong. Sorry. I thought you said what caused it. I'll try to learn more before I post again. Bon-Pirate (talk) 21:10, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * According to Marcus Rediker in "Villains of all Nations", especially Chapter Seven "To Extirpate them out of the World", it was a massive campaign to "cleanse the seas", undertaken "by royal officials, attorneys, merchants, publicists, clergymen, and writers who created, through proclamations, legal briefs, petitions, pamphlets, sermons, and newspaper articles, an image of the pirate that would legitimate his annihiliation. The rhetorical, military, and legal campaign would, in the end, be successful." There's more of course, that's just a nutshell version. Pfly (talk) 23:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * ^It's a great book. Have a look-see at this link where he talks about it, and the golden age consisting of three generations. The last having the most activity during the decade 1717-1727. There are other authors writing from a historical perspective in; "Bandits at Sea" by C. R. Pennel, "The Pirate Wars" by Peter Earle, and "The History of Pirates" by Philip Gosse. When I learn more about how this place works, I'll try incorporating some of these writings. Bon-Pirate (talk) 22:49, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I would caution readers that Rediker's thesis is geared to serve his political agenda, and ignores a good deal of contrary evidence. Pirates had been defined as hostis humani generis ("enemies of the human race") since the days of Roman law, and there are numerous reports and even illustrations of them being executed when they were caught, dating back to Roman and medieval times.  There was no need for 18th-century elites to invent any new image of pirates to justify their annihilation: annihilation had been sovereigns' policy toward pirates for eighteen centuries.  It had been briefly convenient for some kings, especially opponents of Spain, to tolerate pirates because of the damage they did to their enemies.  Once the pirates' usefulness was past, European elites simply returned to the traditional anti-pirate position.


 * Rediker also overlooks the fact that, despite the best efforts of 18th century elites to wipe pirates out, the number actually executed was at most a few hundred, out of several thousand who were at large. At least 90% of all pirates of the Golden Age avoided both execution and death in battle.  The vast majority simply gave up piracy and returned to legal seafaring, because it was increasingly hard to find merchants who would buy their stolen goods and ports where they could maintain their ships. Pirate Dan (talk) 15:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism
wschoate@csufresno.edu: Just had to reset the page, let cluebot do the work. Somebody goatse'd it. Watch out for this crap on other articles, folks. We need to know how it ended!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.229.238 (talk) 12:48, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Arabella Drummond ??
Pirateology: A Pirate Hunter's Companion mentions Arabella Drummond, but there is no mention of her in this article nor is there an article on her. It's almost certain she's a fictional character - in which case the relevant articles should both spell this out and say who she may have been modelled on. 66.19.243.207 (talk) 23:47, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Notes on Historiography of the Golden Age of Piracy
I am going to add a section about how the concept of a "Golden Age" of piracy originated, how it has changed over time, and how various historians have defined it. Until I'm ready to edit the article, I'm going to use this section as a sort of dumping ground for references and definitions about the Golden Age.

Patrick Pringle's 1951 book Jolly Roger: The Story of the Great Age of Piracy uses the term "great age" rather than "Golden Age," or else simply calls it the "Age of Piracy." He describes it as "the most flourishing era in the history of piracy, which began in the reign of Queen Elizabeth I and ended in the second decade of the eighteenth century." P. 9 of the 2001 edition. Pirate Dan (talk) 15:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Angus Konstam's 1998 Pirates: 1660-1730 says that "The end of the 17th century saw the greatest outburst of piracy in the history of seafaring. Ironically called 'the golden age of piracy', the era lasted 30 years, from around 1700 until 1730."  P. 5.  He further ntoes that "[T]his short era would remain lodged in popular and romantic culture as 'the golden age of piracy'.  The romantic-sounding name  belied the cruelty, harshness, and misery created by pirates, and unlike other 'golden ages' it was never regarded with any form of nostalgia.  The phrase itself was never used by those who lived through it, but was subsequently applied by writers seeking to embellish the pirate story with an aura it didn't deserve." P. 7. Pirate Dan (talk) 15:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Douglas Botting's The Pirates, 1978, refers to "the greatest outburst of piracy in all the annals of seafaring. Historians with a keen sense of irony have called it piracy's Golden Age - as in fact it was, for some pirates.  It lasted barely 30 years, scarcely a wink of time's eye, starting at the close of the 17th Century and ending in the first quarter of the 18th."  P. 20.  Pirate Dan (talk) 19:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Frank Sherry's Raiders and Rebels: The Golden Age of Piracy, 1986, says that "The era covered in this narrative - roughly from 1690 through the 1720s - has sometimes been called 'The Golden Age of Piracy.' This is because, during those decades, the world experienced the most intense outbreak of seaborne banditry ever recorded." P. 7.  Pirate Dan (talk) 19:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * In Philip Gosse's 1924 The Pirates' Who's Who, there is a passing statement that "Even during the years when piracy was at its height--say from 1680 until 1730--..." but there is no explicit reference to any distinct "age" or "era." P. 4. Pirate Dan (talk) 19:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The oldest reference yet found, pointing to a still older one: in R.D.W. Connor's Cornelius Harnett: An Essay in North Carolina History, from 1909, we have these words: "The period from 1650 to the close of the first decade of the eighteenth century, John Fiske has called 'the golden age of pirates.' As late as 1717 it was estimated that as many as 1500 pirates had headquarters at New Providence and at Cape Fear." P. 10. Pirate Dan (talk) 14:15, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The preceding reference is to John Fiske's Old Virginia and her Neighbors, from 1897. "At no other time in the world's history has the business of piracy thriven so greatly as in the seventeenth century and the first part of the eighteenth.  Its golden age may be said to have extended from about 1650 to about 1720." P. 338. Note that Connor's citation to Fiske for the "close of the first decade of the eighteenth century," which may have been copied by Pringle in turn, is simply erroneous; Fiske gives the ending date of 1720, which closed the second decade of the 18th century. Pirate Dan (talk) 14:15, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * A 1916 reference appears in Francis Hodges Cooper, Some Colonial History of Beaufort County, North Carolina, in James Sprunt Studies in History and Political Science, v. 14, no. 2. "...there was a government of pirates among the coral islands off the southeast coast of the United States, which had already reached its 'golden age,' and which was about to be disbanded."  P. 32. From context, Cooper is referring to the period 1717-18.  Pirate Dan (talk) 14:46, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * At the other end of the timescale: Marcus Rediker in Villains of All Nations, 2004, p. 8, "The pirates of the 1710s and 1720s . . . stood at the very pinnacle of what is called the golden age of piracy, which spanned the period from roughly 1650 to 1730. This era featured trhee distinct generations of pirates: the buccaneers of 1650-80, the mostly Protestant sea dogs of England, northern France, and the Netherlands, exemplified by the Jamaica raider Henry Morgan, who hunted wild game on deserted islands and attacked the ships of Catholic Spain; the pirates of the 1690s, the gneeration of Henry Avery and William Kidd, who moved into the Indian Ocean and builty a pirate base on the island of Madagascar; and finally the subjects of this book, the pirates of the years 1716-26, who were the most numerous and successful of the three."


 * Rediker's earlier article, Under the Banner of King Death, in William and Mary Quarterly, 1988, had restricted the Golden Age only to the 1716-26 period. Pirate Dan (talk) 15:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * A recent seminal work on piracy, David Cordingly's 1995 Under the Black Flag, does not use the term "Golden Age," but says that "this book concentrates on the pirates of the Western world, and particularly on the great age of piracy, which began in the 1650s and was brought to an abrupt end around 1725, when naval patrols drove the pirates from their lairs and mass hangings eliminated many of their leaders." P. xvi-xvii. Pirate Dan (talk) 03:10, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Rediker doesn't use the term "golden age" at all in his article "Under the Banner of King Death." In his book Villains of All Nations, he says the the golden age lasted "roughly 1650-1730." [p. 8] Bk262 (talk) 15:28, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Featured
this should be a featured article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.109.0.155 (talk) 18:09, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Golden Age of Privateering
I'm not advocating merging the articles, but the parallels between the "Golden Age of Piracy" and the age of "Privateering" are pretty striking, so I'd say the two (or more?) articles should at least be maintained in concert. 68.174.97.122 (talk) 23:35, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

AC IV doesn't glorify piracy
In the section "Effect on popular culture", it says that Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag "drew heavily from this romanticized ideal of piracy" and that it "helped implant an (often inaccurate) image of old-time pirates in contemporary minds". I've played the game and this is certainly not true. Yes, you play as a pirate and you can attack and plunder ships, but neither piracy nor the era are glorified in any way. The game actually focuses on the darker and unpleasant sides, and how piracy isn't such a good life. Could somebody please rewrite this? 81.242.106.152 (talk) 16:57, 11 December 2013 (UTC)


 * You know what? I'll just remove it myself. 91.177.121.87 (talk) 08:15, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

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Pirates were opium addicts
Pirates were opium addicts. The spice trade was mostly about opium. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.44.236.4 (talk) 04:10, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

British
The pirates mentioned as "most well known" in the "Pirates of the era" section are literally all British. Perhaps they're best known in English-speaking countries, but it's not exactly representative. Prinsgezinde (talk) 21:18, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Controversial content, potentially non-neutral
"According to Robert Davis,[31][32] between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by Barbary pirates and sold as slaves in Northern Africa between the 16th and 19th centuries."

Note that no other historian agrees with Davis on this estimate, and it's been frequently cited by those trying to bolster claims of "white slavery". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathan f1 (talk • contribs) 09:22, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

The nature of the relationships between Bonny, Reed, and Rackham
"The nature of the relationships between Bonny, Read, and Rackham have been speculated to be romantic and/or sexual in various combinations, though there is no definitive proof."

With all due respect... why is this sentence here? There's no citation, the wording is extremely vague (who's speculating this?,) and it contradicts a sentence that precedes it by a mere paragraph (where Rackham is definitively stated to be Bonny's lover, with no ambiguity.)

In any case, I fail to see how the romantic and sexual activities of these two women is relevant to their place in this article. Claykilmer (talk) 13:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)