Talk:Golden Film

GA nomination - On Hold
I have placed this article on hold, pending the following being resolved:

1. -- referring to WP:WIAGA, (2) a) - d): "...it is factually accurate and verifiable..."; the article does not provide sources for the final sentence in the opening paragraph.

2. -- concerning (again) the final sentence in the opening paragraph; the sentence contains weasel words and should be cleaned - see WP:WEASEL.

May I also suggest fixing the Red links; although these are permitted, it does downgrade the article if the links are simply incorrect (i.e. nobody has fixed them) rather than non-existent.

If, by a maximum of seven days, this article has complied with the above, I will pass the article as a GA; however, I am being particularly lenient with this article - so please, don't let me down. Continue the good work on this article; finally, here is a link collection for you: GA main page, GA Candidates, Weasel Words, and GA Criteria.

Please contact me at my talk page when you have completed the above; if not, another editor is likely to asses the article and will probably fail it.

Kindest regards, Anthony cfc [ T • C] 23:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Good Article Nomination
Good morning (GMT time); I have reviewed this article on 00:39, 19 January 2007 (UTC) in accordance with the Good Article (GA) criteria. There are seven main critia that the article must comply with to pass:


 * 1) Well-written:
 * 2) Factually accurate:
 * 3) Broad:
 * 4) Neutrally written:
 * 5) Stable:
 * 6) Well-referenced:
 * 7) Images:

I have concluded that, in my opinion, the article has passed all categories and I therefore award it GA status. Congradulations to the lead editors, and keep up the excellent work!

Kindest regards, Anthony cfc [ T • C] 00:39, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Clarification
Could you please clarify for me what "film productions from the Netherlands" means? Does it mean films produced by companies based in the Netherlands, films shot in the Netherlands, or something else? Would a Netherlands subsidiary of an American owned film company qualify for the award for instance? --Malleus Fatuarum 11:49, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * In press releases about the Golden Film and on websites about films from the Netherlands the term "Nederlandse film" is generally used. This term literally translates as "Dutch film", where context suggests "Nederlandse"/"Dutch" refers to the country the Netherlands and not to the Dutch language. I do not know and have not found any formal definition of the term "Nederlandse film" and cannot answer the question. – Ilse@ 14:02, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Forgive me, but I think that's an important question that needs to be addressed in the article. What is the award promoting? Films in the Dutch language, films made by companies based in the Netherlands, or films set in the Netherlands? The lead says "... Dutch film productions". Is that the language or the country? --Malleus Fatuarum 15:08, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not disagreeing with the importance, but I don't have the precise definition. I have just changed the phrase "Dutch film production" into "film from the Netherlands" to be closer to the Dutch language term "Nederlandse film". In some cases I wikilinked the word "Dutch" to the article Netherlands to disambiguate. – Ilse@ 15:51, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey, please don't get upset with me, I'm not one of the circling FA sharks. I'm just a general reader who wants to understand what this award is all about. --Malleus Fatuarum 15:57, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It is also a possibility that the definition used to award the Golden Film isn't any clearer than "film from the Netherlands". In case you have suggestions to further clarify it, please let me know. – Ilse@ 16:12, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no clearer idea of what the criteria are for being awarded the Golden Film are than you do, so I can't make any suggestions. All I'm saying is that if there are no criteria given in the article then I think it's highly unlikely that it will get through its FA review. --Malleus Fatuarum 16:20, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone will know, even if it means a phone call to the organisers to ask their criteria. I remember raising a similar question at RFF some time ago - would Flesh & Blood (film) (filmed in the Netherlands with a Dutch director & star, but in the English language) or The Alzheimer Case (Dutch language & a mostly Dutch cast, but filmed entirely in Belgium), qualify? Incidentally, if anyone with an interest in Dutch film wants to clean up Flesh & Blood (film), it's currently one of the worst articles on Wikipedia. —  iride scent   (talk to me!)  16:23, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I'll pass on that if it's all the same to you. --Malleus Fatuarum 16:30, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * User:Iridescent, you could be right that someone will know, but the definition could also be vague on purpose. I can only speculate about it, but not give a conclusive answer. I consider calling the organizers to be original research. – Ilse@ 16:40, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Although I already asked the organizers once before to clarify a press release (see Golden Film). – Ilse@ 16:47, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed the reference to the OR clarification (the note-5). – Ilse@ 18:32, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

It's not OR if you can provide a reference to the organizers' criteria. I'm sorry to say though that unless you can, IMO this article has got very little chance of being listed as an FA. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't even have listed it as a GA. --Malleus Fatuarum 17:45, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I have provided a reference to the press release of the initiators/organizers ("Nieuwe voorwaarden Gouden en Platina Film") in which they define the current criterion for the award (as mentioned in the article): "A Golden Film is awarded to a film from the Netherlands once it has sold 100,000 cinema tickets in the Netherlands." The problem we are currently discussing here is not a missing reference, but the fact that you are not satisfied with the given definition/criterion, because it doesn't give an unambiguous description of which films can receive the award. I recognise the fact that the description is ambiguous, but if this simply is the definition, and that is what we should assume based on the press release, it is not possible to disambiguate the definition/criterion any further. – Ilse@ 18:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem we are discussing here is one of definition. You need to clearly define what films are eligible for this award. What does "from the Netherlands" mean? Anyway, I've now said all that I intend to say, so good luck with your FA review. --Malleus Fatuarum 19:07, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Couple of copyediting questions
There are a just a couple of places remaining where I think that significant work needs to be done, but I can't do it because I'm not sure that I understand what's being said:


 * "From 2003 until 2006 the percentage of cinema visitors who watched a Dutch film was between 9.2% (ca. 2.1 million visitors) in 2004 and 13.26% (ca. 3.3 million visitors) in 2003."

--Malleus Fatuarum 23:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * "Recipients have responded positively to the award. After Schnitzel Paradise (2005) received the Golden Film, director Martin Koolhoven said that he didn't expect his film to be such a success. It was his first commercially successful film. Fifteen year old Sem Veeger, lead actress in the film Keep Off (2006), said she knew that many people had visited the film, but she didn't expect it to receive a Golden Film." I don't see any kind of a positive response there, only surprise.
 * I have rephrased the paragraph about the positive response. – Ilse@ 14:11, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I tried clarify the history section. – Ilse@ 18:35, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

PS. In the Response to the award section it says that "In 2002, Ronald Ockhuysen said about the Golden Film ...". Not all of your readers will know who Ronald Ockhuysen is, so better to say something like " ... film director Ronald Ockhuysen said ...". --Malleus Fatuarum 23:18, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ronald Ockhuysen is a journalist of de Volkskrant and of www.cinema.nl that writes film-related articles, reviews, and columns. During previous copyedits "in a column" was removed. Do you think "film journalist" be a good addition to the name Ronald Ockhuysen (i.e. "film journalist Ronald Ockhuysen")? – Ilse@ 00:15, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added "film journalist". – Ilse@ 14:11, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I think you should seriously consider putting "winning" back. It reads strangely without it, and it is indeed a competition. Still, what do I know, I'm only English. --Malleus Fatuarum 23:55, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You cannot be a winner/loser of the Golden Film competition, because every film from the Netherlands that reaches the criterion receives the award. Maybe "awarded film" can be changed into "receiving film" or "film that reached the criterion" or "film that reached the audience target"? – Ilse@ 00:07, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You're the expert on how to say things in English, you decide. --Malleus Fatuarum 00:10, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

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