Talk:Golden Gate (Jerusalem)

Keep religion and traditions apart from objective facts
PLEASE! It's an encyclopedia! Mention all fairy tales, folklore, religious lore, etc. you want - I love it all, good fiction is better than any reality - but present it as such & separately from facts. The latter need confirmation from written sources, archaeologists and alike. Thanks. Arminden (talk) 12:09, 27 September 2015 (UTC)Arminden

Miscelaneous
"The Muslims also built a cemetery in front of the gate, allegedly in the belief that the precursor to the Messiah, Elijah, would not be able to pass through since he is a cohanim."

I thought that this cementary was built by the Jewish (HAR HAZEITIM) awaiting for the Messiah to come...
 * The Mount of Olives is across the valley. This cemetary is built on the slopes of the Temple mount. Daniel Tzvi 20:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

What about that photograph; is it really circa 1890s? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.76.132.98 (talk) 06:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * You can click on the photo (if you have not already done so) for more information, then on the word "photochrom" to learn about the colorizing process (consistent with that vintage). Hertz1888 (talk) 08:15, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Biblical verse
Does Ezekiel 44:1-3 really belong in this article? If so, how about some context? Just having it there as a "conclusion" is kinda jarring. IMHO, of course. --MicahBrwn (talk) 16:24, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect information
The text claiming that the gate was sealed "to prevent the Messiah's entrance" is a myth. The Hebrew wikipedia has more relevant information about this. The Hebrew wikipedia says:

"The sealing, made by Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent in the 16th century helped the Jewish tradition of the coming messiah as if his coming was obstructed by foreign forces. In fact, the Sultan ordered the blocking of the gate as part of the wall surrounding Jerusalem, making the eastern wall of the Temple Mount part of the city wall. He sought to ensure the security of Jerusalem, without having to place guards at the gate. After blocking the gate, he turned the area outside the eastern wall into a Muslim cemetery, and thus was born the legend among the Jews, as if the Muslims were trying to prevent the coming of the Messiah, since a Cohen couldn't go in the cemetery, lest he becomes unclean, thus preventing the redemption of the Jews. In fact it is probably a folklore designed to make fun of Muslims, for the Messiah is not a Cohen (he's of the Tribe of Judah - "Messiah son of David") but also the graves of gentiles are not impure. Impurity from gentiles is only by direct contact or carrying a corpse". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.228.196.24 (talk) 15:07, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

The story about the gate being sealed by the Ottomans is false. When French bishop Louis Rochechouart visited Jerusalem in 1461, the gate was blocked. When Bohemian Rabbi Petachiah of Ratisbon visited in the 12th century, it was blocked. The book of Ezekiel says that the gate should remain blocked because the glory of the Lord entered through it. There is no Muslim tradition that seeks to prevent the return of the Messiah. There is not a shred of primary evidence or credible scholarship that supports this claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.142.62 (talk) 17:06, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Prophecy
The opening contained the line "It has been walled up since medieval times, in fulfilment of prophecy (Ezekiel 44:1-3)". I removed the second half of the sentence because an encyclopedia is not able to determine whether prophecy has been fulfilled or not. Later on, the article mentions Ezekiel 44:1-3 to describe how people interpret the sealing of the gate, which is more appropriate for an article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.57.116.223 (talk) 22:20, 9 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I only saw this article today, but totally concur with your edit; not only because Wikipedia cannot make such judgments, but because that Bible verse has nothing to say about any current gates in the walls of Jerusalem! The topic of Ezekiel 44 concerns a wall in an as yet still future temple! People really need to understand the CONTEXT of anything they read in the Bible before making any statements about what it reveals to us. Daniel B. Sedory (talk) 22:27, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

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Gigantic error in the text
In the text I read:

"In Christian apocryphal texts, the gate was the scene of the meeting between the parents of Mary after the Annunciation, so that the gate became the symbol of the virgin birth of Jesus".

This is completely wrong. The encounter happened after the annunciation to the father of Mary that he and his wife Anna would have a baby, not after the Annunciation to Mary that she would give birth to Jesus. So, it became the symbol of the Immaculate Conception of Mary, not the symbol of the virgin birth of Jesus.

Please correct it. It is really a blunder. 84.18.132.44 (talk) 08:35, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Just the link to Annunciation was wrong - this is still sometimes called the "Annunciation to Joseph" which no doubt confused somebody. Now links to Saint Joseph's dreams. Johnbod (talk) 12:41, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, but the article still refers to the gate as the symbol of the virgin birth of Jesus, which is incorrect. It should refer to the immaculate conception of Mary which, as you may know, is a completely different dogma. Thanks. 84.18.132.44 (talk) 14:56, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry - changed, That was what the ref said too! This complete idiot made the false addition an alarmingly long time ago. Johnbod (talk) 15:20, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

File "Jerusalem-Golden's-Gate_-_Warren's-Schema_English.svg" is Plagiarism
Although I very much appreciate having this diagram here (it's under the section "Ottoman Era"), it was made directly from a diagram appearing in Biblical Archaeology Review (or BAR, vol. 9:1) by James Fleming (see: https://www.baslibrary.org/biblical-archaeology-review/9/1/2 ), but since that's not publicly accessible, here is where you can find the diagram on their website: https://library.biblicalarchaeology.org/sites/default/files/bsba090102900l.jpg.

I found that the English .SVG diagram here came from: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jerusalem-Golden%27s-Gate_-_Warren%27s-Schema_Romanian.pdf. One can easily see that its author, FlorinCB, started with the copyrighted diagram from BAR, then used a different font in places; along with some bad spelling and grammar ("41 feets bellow" and "Doble" instead of "Double"); this plagiarized diagram is definitely not from Warren in 1876, but rather 1969 or later; and not created by FlorinCB. I certainly do not feel I have the right to simply delete it, so have asked ADMIN - I'd really like a much better diagram to appear giving James Fleming the credit he is due!

I wish we could ask James Fleming directly, however, I've tried, but haven't been able to find a way to communicate with him; I contacted BAR (well, biblicalarchaeology.org) myself, but they have no direct contact with him either! So, I have no idea if he can provide Wikipedia with a acceptable diagram for us to use.

Dan, TheStarman. Daniel B. Sedory (talk) 22:02, 24 September 2023 (UTC)


 * In the meantime, I have also written to a website using the same diagram in BAR, that made this statement on their webpage:
 * "The drawing is provided by the Biblical Archaeology Review (1983 Jan/Feb volume 9 Number 1) based on James’ discovery." to see exactly how it was "provided" by BAR to them, and how they got authorization for its use. I will edit this later with their reply. Daniel B. Sedory (talk) 19:44, 19 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I have removed the image from the article, and nominated it for deletion on Wikimedia Commons. If evidence of permission can be provided, then of course that nomination can be withdrawn. JBW (talk) 21:24, 19 October 2023 (UTC)