Talk:Golden Hind

Material about bankside not relevant to Golden Hind
I'd previously deleted material that isn't relevant to the Golden Hind and replaced it with a reference to Bankside, where all of these links are already included. Now it's been put back. Just because a replica happens to be at Bankside doesn't seem to be a good reason for advertising the amenities of Bankside. Hence reverted edit of replaced links as linkspam. Viv Hamilton 17:24, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Bankside? As far as I am aware, the replica of the Golden Hind is and always has been based in Brixham, Devon (see main article photo.) Is there more than one replica? Paul-b4 14:39, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Hush my mouth! There are two! I'll update the main article to reflect this. Paul-b4 14:47, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Question about Golden Hind versus Golden Hinde
Why are most references to the Golden Hind as stated here, refer to it as the Golden Hinde? 16th.century English. 'Hinde' is actually used in the narrative of Francis Pretty, who took part in Drake's voyage; both spellings can however be found.86.41.205.58 03:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Other ships of the same name
A different 'Golden Hinde' took part in the Armada-battles, under the command of captain Thomas Fleming. It was Fleming who informed Lord Howard of Effingham of the arrival of the Armada.86.41.205.58 04:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Speed?
The Golden Hind was a legendarily speedy creature. Were the ships bearing this name particularly fast in their day? 70.15.114.89 15:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ahem, unfortunately (and wrongly IMHO) someone redirected the link I used. By "Golden Hind" I refer to the famous creature called "Ceryneian Hind" on Wikipedia, which traditionally was known for the difficulty in the capture, and in modern day mythology is perhaps best known as a handy source of god-slaying poison. 70.15.116.59 03:49, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Dimensions
To Rule the Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World (2004) Herman, A. Harper Collins, New York ISBN 0-06-053424-9 p.77 and 78 gives the weight as 150 tons (NB that there are three different ways of measuring ship tonnage) and states (my emphasis): The Pelican may have been only sixty-eight feet in length with an eighteen foot beam or width - not much larger than a wide-load semitrailer truck - but a Portuguese pilot who saw her pronounced her 'staunch' and fit for transoceanic travel. The citation for the length is given as: J. Hampden, ed. Francis Drake, Privateer: Contemporary Narratives and Documents (London, Methuen, 1972) 111-117. --Major Bonkers (talk) 11:32, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Flag
Surely this is the wrong flag - as it's the White Ensign. The Hinde was around when it just England.Petsco (talk) 11:21, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Fate?
Am I reading the article correctly? Whatever became of the original Golden Hind? All it says on the right is that it "disintigrated 400 years ago". --Ragemanchoo (talk) 09:04, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Date problems
There is a date discrepancy (2 actually) in the article - the info box says "disintegrated 400 years ago" but the artice says that after returning in 1580 "Golden Hind remained there for nearly 100 years" - so until 1680 or so (obviously less than 400 years ago).Jabberjawjapan (talk) 23:25, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

The other problem is the renaming date- the infobox says 1577 and the article 1578. Which one is it?Jabberjawjapan (talk) 23:25, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Who knighted Drake and where?
In the lemma on Drake, it says: "Also considering the friction with Spain, on the occasion of the knighting, Elizabeth I handed the sword to the Marquis de Marchaumont, ambassador from France, and asked him to dub Drake as the knight. During the Victorian era, in a spirit of nationalism, the story was promoted that Elizabeth I had done the actual knighting." and "Drake was awarded a knighthood, but not by Queen Elizabeth aboard Golden Hind, as is commonly thought. He was actually knighted by a French nobleman called Monsieur de Marchaumont.", a contention supported by two footnotes. I don't know enough about te source material to change the text here or in the Drake lemma.

--Peterk2 (talk) 13:18, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

displacement?
In the introduction, we are told it displaced 100 tons, but in the 'Details' section it's staked it displaced 300 tons. Which one is correct? Markb (talk) 10:17, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Aker's estimate
Raymond Aker, noted marine historian places the Golden Hind at 120 tons. See http://www.winepi.com/Drake%20Book/Drake-Book-01.pdf drawing following page 32 and discussion in that section.


 * But is that displacement or tonnage? Kendall-K1 (talk) 04:01, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Replicas
There used to be a replica at Southend-on-Sea, Essex in a dry dock alongside the Adventure Island (amusement park) complete with a chamber-of-horrors alongside. It was renamed Pirate Ship a few years ago. Also the replica at Brixham dated from 1963 is not the original, that sank a number of years ago and was replaced by a second replica, both were built on a barge hull. The reason Brixham has one as I remember was from the television series Sir Francis Drake (TV series) of 1961/62 which used a 2/3 size replica to film around the bays of Torbay and was left to rot in the harbour at Brixham. I was 12 years old at the time and very difficult to confirm for an article.REVUpminster (talk) 12:57, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I have just come across this pathe video http://www.britishpathe.com/video/golden-hind/query/Devon The ship is the one used in the TV series costing £25000. Compare the stern with the TV episode http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7syMurbW6zw they look the same ie no gallery. Then there is the wreck of the Golden Hind 1987 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz-4UlKsaH8 which looks like the tv ship. It was replaced by the current replica built on a thames barge. REVUpminster (talk) 19:15, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

On This Day...
An event from this article is currently on Wikipedia's main page in the "On This day..." section. I'm not sure of the template used, and I'm sure someone does. So, if someone could change that it would be great! Thanks for the help! Fli ght x 52 20:07, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Forgot to mention a key part, I meant fix the template on this talk page. Thanks again! Fli ght x 52 20:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Flightx52 (talk • contribs)

"Race built"
Several of the ships that went out to meet the Armada are described as "race built" and more seaworthy as a result.

What exactly does "race built" mean?AT Kunene (talk) 10:03, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * See Razee. In the late 16th century, English shipwrights started building galleons with much reduced ("razored" ;-) fore and aft castles. This made them more stable, more manoeuvrable, and also allowed a more narrow and hence faster design. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:46, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Replicas
I well remember the 1960s TV series about Francis Drake. At the time the press articles stated that the replica was based on a torpedo boat and had three diesel engines fitted and was independent of the wind.

For a brief period it was moored at London Bridge where I saw it. From what I did see the barge description seemed more likely rather than an ex torpedo boat.AT Kunene (talk) 07:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The Torquay Herald Express dated 29 August 2013 had a feature on wrecks and stated The original was a converted coastal defence vessel which sank in 1987 of the Mewstone in 40ft of water when a pump failed when being towed to Dartmouth to have a new keel fitted. Refloated it was taken to Phillips yard and judged a right off and another hulk was converted for the current replica. REVUpminster (talk) 08:35, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Treasure inconsistency....
I know Drake was amazing, and that measurement systems were not standardised, but "The six tons of treasure took six days to transship and included 26 tons of silver, half a ton of gold, porcelain, jewellery, coins and jewels" does not seem right. Can someone with access to the source find out how 26.5 tons of gold and silver can be included in 6 tons of treasure, or if maybe something was lost in translation? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:24, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Why the name change?
It is not clear exactly why Drake renamed the Pelican the Golden Hinde. But surely it was not on a sudden whim simply to honour Christopher Hatton as suggested or implied in the text.

As one source says:

''Perhaps to appease Sir Christopher Hatton, a Privy Council member of Elizabeth I, as Thomas Doughty (whom Drake had just had executed) was his personal secretary and a nobleman, and possibly to move on from the event, Drake’s ship, the Pelican, was renamed as the Golden Hinde on 20 August. Sir Christopher Hatton’s family crest featured a golden hinde.'' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.6.92 (talk) 13:54, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

-This is disputed. According to the show Q.I. it never happened, and there is no source confirming that the Pelican was ever renamed. I think this should be investigated further, because if true, the entire article is faulty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.209.168.26 (talk) 10:19, 22 December 2020 (UTC)