Talk:Golden Horn (horse)

Wins
Wins are placed in chronological order.  Tigerboy1966  14:46, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

1. Feilden Stakes in no possible way can be described as a major victory. It's not Group 1. It's not even a Group race. It's only a listed race. --Archduke Ferdinand III of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (talk) 14:48, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
 * and?  Tigerboy1966  15:06, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

and what ???? "and" isn't a valid reason. --Archduke Ferdinand III of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (talk) 15:08, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
 * please dont delete sourced material.  Tigerboy1966  15:09, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Feilden Stakes is sourced but very obviously not a major victory and so is irrelevant. You are covertly making changes beyond these without justifying them. --Archduke Ferdinand III of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (talk) 15:19, 20 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Nothing "covert" about it.  Tigerboy1966  15:27, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

You have deleted other races as well without providing any justification. --Archduke Ferdinand III of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (talk) 15:35, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

You have no provided any justification that Feilden Stakes is a major race when it very obviously isn't. All you put is "and". --Archduke Ferdinand III of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (talk) 15:35, 20 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The Feilden is an established race with its own wp page. If you would like to start a dicussion on what constitutes "major", I suggest you take it to the project page.  Tigerboy1966  15:46, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Can't see any problem with the Feilden Stakes being included - it's a Listed race and appears on the BHA's list of Pattern & Listed races - 2014 edition here --Bcp67 (talk) 15:48, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Listed races are the lowest level races - below Group 1, Group 2, and then Group 3. They are very plainly not major races. Only those ignorant of Group races would think otherwise. --Archduke Ferdinand III of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (talk) 17:19, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_races --Archduke Ferdinand III of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (talk) 17:20, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for joining the racing project - maybe you'd like to start by working all through the articles on racehorses and removing all Listed wins - there are several hundred such articles so it'd be handy if you can start fairly soon. Another useful task is to update European pattern race results - maybe I'll leave that to you as I'm clearly too ignorant to be trusted with Group race articles. --Bcp67 (talk) 17:28, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Your sarcasm looks foolish. Describing a listed race as a major victory is sheer stupidity and ignorance. If any listed races have been described elsewhere as major victories then there are a lot of horse racing editors who are not fit to edit horse racing. Having an article for a listed race does not make it a major victory. --Archduke Ferdinand III of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (talk) 17:46, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

It's like describing Turks and Caicos as a major country solely because there is an article on it. --Archduke Ferdinand III of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (talk) 17:47, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
 * the Duke has now been blocked as a sock of User talk:Snackbag. I don't feel too hostile towards him, I might have thought this kind of trolling was funny when I was about 17.  Tigerboy1966  18:26, 20 June 2015 (UTC)


 * A question on how races become notable - I presume the Feildan is because it's a major prep for the Epsom Derby? (Kind of like the Rebel and Lecomte in the USA, not G1 but very significant anyway?)  Montanabw (talk)  22:24, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Ties in with the discussion we were having recently about whether Listed races are notable or not. Although the Feilden isn't a major prep race, its a kind of "sometimes relevant" prep for European classics and has been won by Epsom & French Derby winners in the last few races, although the winners will go on to run in a more major trial normally. For me, I'm happy to have any British Listed counted amongst the "major wins" but open to sensible discussion. --Bcp67 (talk) 08:03, 21 June 2015 (UTC)


 * I'll gladly defer to you guys, you've been doing this way longer than I have. Several GII and GIII races in the USA have WP articles and some listed stakes do, any of the above can show up in some horse userboxes; I don't know how it works in the UK, but in the US a given race can go up and down in Grade or even move out of graded stakes status into Listed Stakes and vice-versa, so just because a race isn't a GI now doesn't mean it wasn't notable in the past. (see here, here,  and here ) I don't know if the UK works the same as the USA, but the sheer numbers are a factor:  here they note in 2014 there were 713 unrestricted U.S. stakes races with a purse of at least $75,000, 455 were graded stakes and 190 were Listed stakes (no clue what the rest were, just "stakes" I guess).  I don't know how the numbers compare, but I suppose if there are fewer total races in the UK, then more of them matter.  Thoughts?   Montanabw (talk)  09:39, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Storm the Stars
StS later won the Group 2 Great Voltigeur Stakes, which is probably more credit-worthy than second in the Chester Vase or first in the Cocked Hat Stakes.(JockeyColours (talk) 06:44, 7 October 2015 (UTC))
 * Agree, the reason I wrote it like that was that we pick up his part in the story again at Epsom, but it should be amended.  Tigerboy1966  18:55, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Stats chart
Hey all, may want to compare the formatting to that at American Pharoah, For one thing, the chart is sortable and has some syntax ( did some of this}} that allows things like "neck" and "nose" to be sorted. Also, when I had one of my articles at FAC, I got blasted for having the smaller size (which I personally like, but...).  Anyway, my time is limited at the moment but if no one else gets to it, I will eventually.   Montanabw (talk)  15:16, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Here is a CC video of the Arc . Froggerlaura  ribbit |undefined 03:00, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

BC Turf etc
I will get this rounded off in the next week or so. I have been sulking since he lost at Keeneland.  Tigerboy1966  21:41, 12 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Can't blame you, I couldn't get over what a nice-looking horse he was to see live, but his trainer was clearly worried about the sand base to the turf course there even before the race. He was quite valiant, though can't take anything away from the filly.   Montanabw (talk)  05:54, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

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