Talk:Golf/Archive 4

Golf Tournament - definition
Is there a formal definition for a golf tournament? What is the distinction between, say, a dozen friends getting together for three (consecutive) foursomes and a bona fide tournament?

The question has arisen at the (public) course where I am a member. The owner has recently declared that members who partake in a non-club sponsored tournament must pay green fees. I want to object, claiming that we are simply friends playing together, and that the term "tournament", used loosely to describe the event, is only for convinience sake and not strictly valid.

Todd —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.46.8.22 (talk) 12:41, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * My late father was a member of a public golf course and never had any of the problems you describe. What I don't understand is, who can own a public golf course? I know in Scotland the councils own them. Perhaps its different in different places, but I've never heard of an individual owning a public golf course. Jack forbes (talk) 01:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Halfway cut
This expression is never explained anywhere, even on specific golf pages. Can someone please tell what it means exactly to "make the halfway cut"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.213.132.180 (talk) 10:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * See PGA Tour Tournaments. The cut is the elimination of the worst-scoring players during the tournament, typically after the second round in major championships and US PGA tour events.

Picture replacement.
I think the main image ought to be replaced with a person playing golf; let's say a user from "Planet X" decides to look up this article. What will a picture of just a picture of a golf ball next to a hole tell him?--Archeopteryx (talk) 00:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree completely, I plan on incorporating the swinging a golf club section into the hitting a golf ball section, so perhaps when I do, I can move the animated figure swinging a club to the top of the article. I'm thinking that the visitor from "Planet X' might then better visualize what people playing golf look like. What do you think? Eaglebreath (talk) 18:07, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Redundancy in Golf Course section
Cwinch5, I saw that you added to the Golf Course section, and I certainly wouldn't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but I wonder if you description of varying grass lengths might not have already been covered by the teeing area, and fairway-rough internal links. I invite you to share your thoughts here. Thanks for letting me kibbitz. Your partner in editing, Eaglebreath (talk) 22:53, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Minigolf
Minigolf is a variant of golf, rather than a basic form of the game. There is a minigolf page, it is described and linked within the variations of golf page, which is linked from the golf page. If this is not a strong enough linkage to minigolf, might I suggest a direct link to minigolf in the see also section of the golf page. Eaglebreath (talk) 17:48, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Linked from Main page today
This article is linked to from Wikipedia's Main Page today (7 December 2008), due to the new Golf in Scotland article appearing as the lead item in the "Did you know?" column. --Mais oui! (talk) 09:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

American spelling
There seems to be a proliferation of American spellings of English words throughout the article. I know the Scots and the English don't get on all that well, but this seems excessive. - Dudesleeper / Talk  15:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I've been doing a lot of revisions to the Golf article recently, so I'll chime in. No animosity to either the English or the Scots here, I just spell English words using American spellings because I'm an American. Your partner in editing, Eaglebreath (talk) 09:25, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Hazards
I think Water hazard and Bunker (golf) should be merged under Hazard (golf)

Username 1 (talk) 15:51, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Par 7?
PGA claims par 3 through 5. I found record of a par 6 in New York, but no record of a par 7. Does such a beast actually exist? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.5.191 (talk) 04:00, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes. The Satsuki golf course in Sano, Japan, has the longest hole in the world -- a 964-yard, par-7.

Username 1 (talk) 16:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Recent Events
Is there a page in wikipedia for recent events in golf? Ergito (talk) 22:36, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * try Portal:Current events/Sports or n:Category:Golf

Username 1 (talk) 18:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Etymology
Just to point out (don't think it's mentioned anywhere else) that golf has the same etymology as club, a word with which it is so closely associated (Old High German kolb). The only other example of this I can think of is beef cow (from Indo-European variants bwous and ghwous). Nuttyskin (talk) 14:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

GA Review
The old golf GA review can be found at:Talk:Golf/GA1.username 1 (talk) 14:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

twelfth century references to golf at st andrews
The sentence "According to the most widely accepted account, however, the modern game originated in Scotland around the 12th century, with shepherds knocking stones into rabbit holes on the current site of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews.[5]" is slightly misleading. There should either be a reference to a twelfth century source (which almost certainly does not exist) or a following sentence that says "however, the earliest contemporary evidence dates from....(?18th century)". To jump back to the twelfth century is quite a leap of faith... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kinigi (talk • contribs) 17:10, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism
Most of the editing in this article is either vandalism or deletion of vandalism. It seems to me that semi-protection of this page to allow only registered users to edit would serve this article well. My fellow editors, please weigh in with your thoughts, and/or suggestions. Eaglebreath (talk) 22:04, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I tried to get indefinite semi-protection based on suggestions by good article nominee reviewer User:Mobile Snail but it was not given because "there wasn't enough recent vandalism" to get it. If we could get it next time that would be great.username 1 (talk) 14:08, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

We just got one month semi-protection.username 1 (talk) 23:11, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Great news, good job.Eaglebreath (talk) 22:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I just undid some vandalism to the page. It was only a line of code with words on it with some other useless info. Rockingamer2 (talk) 23:45, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Name
I would like to see a section on the origin of the name "Golf", and the controversy about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arthritix (talk • contribs) 23:31, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * See Etymology section in the History article. I don't see much controversy though. -- Escape Orbit  (Talk) 10:55, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't make sense
"Another early game that resembled modern golf was known as cambuca in England and chambot in France.[6] This game was, in turn, exported to the Low Countries, Germany, and England (where it was called pall-mall, pronounced “pell mell”)." --> "Another early game that resembled modern golf was known as cambuca in England. This game was exported to England (where it was called pall-mall)." Eh? I'm not sure what this should say, could someone who does address it please? Stutley (talk) 08:23, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Junk history
The Roman, Persian and Chinese stuff is clearly irrelevant and should be removed. "Vaguely similar" is not the same as "ancestral". If there is a historical link, it should be backed up by evidence. Grendlegrutch (talk) 19:31, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Their claims as possible forerunners of the sport are cited properly as far as I can see. wjemather bigissue 19:40, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The Chinese claim certainly isn't junk - I wish I could find a copy of the picture. There is no reason to delete any of these references. Unless you can irrefutably prove that these claims are junk then they should stay.Philg88 (talk) 06:31, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

18 holes
why is golf played 9 or 18 holes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomasseaton (talk • contribs) 17:49, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Dimples
The dimples INCREASE the turbulence around the ball NOT decrease it. An increase in the turbulence in the boundary layer around the ball will cause the flow to better overcome adverse pressure gradients and be less subjected to boundary layer separation. Because the separation point is pushed further back there will be less pressure differential drag resulting in less negative acceleration and longer flight trajectories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carl489585 (talk • contribs) 22:11, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Shepherds, Stones & Rabbits
The theory that "the modern game originated in Scotland around the 12th century, with shepherds knocking stones into rabbit holes" as noted in the article is widespread and has a certain appeal. Are there any good historical sources for this or is it just a popular myth? One issue I have with this is the question of the Rabbits. To quote http://www.snh.org.uk/publications/on-line/advisorynotes/31/31.htm


 * "Rabbits were introduced to Britain by the Normans, around the 12th or 13th century. At that stage they were not technically wild but were initially confined to managed warrens, primarily on islands and in coastal areas. The trade in rabbit meat was well established by the 14th century and reached its peak around 1800 (Sheail 1971). However, the economic value of the species had declined by the mid-19th century, and measures were begun to control rabbits to reduce agricultural damage. Rabbits were widespread in Britain by the 16th century although their spread in Scotland was more gradual. While apparently abundant around Edinburgh at this time, they were otherwise primarily restricted to a few islands and coastal habitats, where they often constituted the main source of income. They were rarely recorded north of the Tay and Clyde valleys. The spread of rabbits throughout Scotland is largely attributed to introductions throughout the Highlands in the 18th and 19th centuries, aided by improved agricultural practices."

Now perhaps the St Andrews links (for example) was one of the early managed coastal warrens. However to quote http://www.scottishgolfhistory.net/st_andrews_oldest_golf_course.htm


 * "In 1552, Archbishop John Hamilton of St Andrews was given a charter to establish a rabbit warren on the links".

This, of course may have been the formalisation of a pre-existing situation and does not preclude a prior rabbit population, but it does make me wonder if there is any real evidence for 12th century rabbit holes.

Secondly, of course, it seems widely accepted that the earliest historical reference to golf is James II ban of 1457. Again, this does not mean that the playful shepherds were not golfing in the C12, but does seem to imply that there is no historical evidence for their frolics (added by WhaleyTim (talk) 07:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)).

Any thoughts (or historical evidence) ?WhaleyTim (talk) 09:10, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, it is rather speculative. But it is cited and as good a suggested explanation of how the game came about as any. But the concern is more about establishing where it is "generally accepted" the modern game originated, rather than exact dates and means, which is likely to be never known.  How about we drop the shepherds, and go with something along the lines of;


 * "The modern game originated in Scotland, where first written record of golf is James II's banning of the game in 1457, as an unwelcome distraction to learning archery."


 * That would require a cite for both the originated and the banning, but they can't be difficult to get. -- Escape Orbit  (Talk) 10:49, 7 October 2010 (UTC)