Talk:Gordon–Conwell Theological Seminary/Archive 1

Merger proposal
I propose to merge Gordon Divinity School here, since it split off from Gordon College (Massachusetts) and joined the Conwell School of Theology to form this institution (instead of going defunct or getting absorbed like some schools). Seems pretty clear that a separate divinity school article serves little to no purpose. Feel free to weigh in, however! --Aepoutre (talk) 05:21, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. --Aepoutre (talk) 21:18, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup tag
Added cleanup tag. Needs cleanup to conform to WP:UNIGUIDE. --Aepoutre (talk) 15:25, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Degrees list
Per WP:UNIGUIDE, the article should avoid listing each and every degree possible. Furthermore, it's not cited. To revert this again, after UNIGUIDE has been invoked twice now and I've even left a message on the talk page, would constitute vandalism and potentially spark an edit war. --inquietudeofcharacter (talk) 20:40, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The school offers about twenty degrees; I don't think any contributors have recently attempted to make a comprehensive list, which would, of course, be out of line with the articles guidelines at WP:UNIGUIDE. The M.Div. and Th.M. degrees, however, are more than areas of master study; these are distinct and well-recognized programmes, each with its own unique article. Stating that the school offers both is well within the guidelines at WP:UNIGUIDE. The M.Div. is as distinct from the Th.M. as either is from the D.Min. --Mikhailovich (talk) 21:02, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your response. I would've been more inclined to agree with our assessment had you been less of an ass about it to begin with, and while I can't help but take umbrage at your not having been civil with regards to edit summaries and discussion, perhaps my humour will improve as we chat. The link to Master's degrees provides a list of each and every separate master's degree available, which should suffice considerably. It's just as much a list to list each type of master's degree whether it's a master of arts, a master of science, a master of divinity, or what have you, even if the specific requirements of each are different; that's still going against the spirit of the guideline, which is based on WP:NOT and advert concerns. The point being: don't list all the degrees. Now, that said, if you had some sort of verifiable context, or one in which we historically discuss at what point GCTS was authorised to grant one or more of these degrees ("GCTS was authorised to grant the master of divinity degree in 1967 and added a master of theology program in 1982" or something, complete with references, which seem to be lacking at present and give me even more right to remove them) then I'd be more inclined to keep it. As it stands, however, the argument that "they're different degrees, so it's not a list" isn't a cogent one, especially when it's predicated on the idea that separate articles warrant a special dispensation to include both. Besides, I'm well aware of various degree types and don't need you explaining them to me. --inquietudeofcharacter (talk) 21:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah, okay. I'm not particularly interested in commenting on your character, so let's launch into this. For reference, look at the structure of the Gordon-Conwell Degree Programs page. There is a hierarchy that places important categories (like Th.M. or M.Div.) above a straight list of variants on a master of arts degree. In other words, this is categorical information that people would care more about when reading an article about the school; it's not a bare listing of all degrees offered for no other point than listing them. The article could potentially be simplified to say that the school just offers degrees, but that would be even less helpful. The line of how much information to offer has to be drawn at a reasonable point, and mentioning the M.Div. and Th.M. along with the D.Min. does not cross the boundaries set up in WP:UNIGUIDE.

For more examples, here is a partial list of some other schools that mention both degrees by name in their Wikipedia articles:


 * California Graduate School of Theology
 * Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
 * Vancouver School of Theology
 * Boston College School of Theology and Ministry
 * Grand Rapids Theological Seminary
 * Bible College of Victoria
 * Amridge University
 * Regis College, University of Toronto
 * Daehan Graduate School of Theology
 * Candler School of Theology
 * Bethany Theological Seminary
 * Silliman University
 * Duke Divinity School
 * University of Trinity College
 * Regent College
 * Waterloo Lutheran Seminary
 * Toronto Baptist Seminary and Bible College
 * Brite Divinity School
 * Phoenix Seminary
 * Harvard Divinity School
 * Asbury Theological Seminary
 * Princeton Theological Seminary
 * Wycliffe College

--Mikhailovich (talk) 02:47, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks; you're a better man than I. I'd also like to apologise if I sounded offensive, since I wasn't meaning to offend so much as call attention to something. Thanks for the info. on the other schools, too, although it's a moot point -- Wikipedia isn't a common law court, so precedent doesn't matter, and guidelines always take precedence over articles, especially those that haven't even been through the peer review process. I certainly didn't say that an MDiv is a "variant" on an MA, and, like I did say, I know the difference anyway. Here's a solution that would satisfy both that one part of UNIGUIDE and VERIFY: don't list the degrees, but add a source that links to the list of degrees. That way, you can verify the existence of those degree programs per VERIFY and not list them per UNIGUIDE. Wikipedia is WP:NOT mean to be a directory and it is not meant to store every bit of information possible. It seem pretty clear that a) a list is a list, and b) there are no sources for the information anyway -- and anyone can therefore challenge and remove it, per guidelines. --inquietudeofcharacter (talk) 02:08, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No offense taken. I agree, of course, that guidelines should overrule precedence. However, I don't see how this qualifies as a list any more than saying that a school offers both doctoral and masters degrees (also technically a "list," although clearly not what the guidelines are referring to). My goal is to provide helpful information -- not exhaustive (or promotional) information. --Mikhailovich (talk) 02:47, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Glad to hear you're not being promotional. :-) I think it's plenty useful to say that it offer's master's degrees (which provides a list of different degrees) and I'd honestly expect it to have Ministry and Theology degrees, or it wouldn't be much of a seminary. It still needs sources, of course, and (having finally looked at that degree page) I'd say that it's worth noting that GCTS offers one of its doctoral degrees through BU. You didn't include that one before, did you? Seems odd that you wouldn't have, if you didn't. --inquietudeofcharacter (talk) 02:59, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

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Neutral Point of View
Hello Editors, I am of the opinion that this article would not pass the Neutral point of view policy. Approximately half of the references are to the website of the subject of the article, which would indicate a Bias in Sources. Comments welcome from anyone who has a view on this. NYFly (talk) 19:17, 21 June 2018 (UTC)