Talk:Gordon Brown/Archive 1

Protection
Why isn't this article protected? Turk brown 11:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

This artice is innacurate

 * It says that a few days after the 27th of June he will form a government; wrong he will form a government on the 27th, after labour has confirmed him as leader on the 24th; which will happen because he already has won the votes he needs to win the leadership contest.


 * Secondly it says he is "Prime Minister elect". No such term exists in the UK; you are either the PM or you are not.

popularity
What is the source for the 'recent' poll showing the public prefer blair, and how recent is it? Times change... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.232.249.153 (talk • contribs)

http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2007/Guardian%20March/guardian-mar-2007.asp - March 2007 poll by ICM for the Guardian; Labour support drops from 31% to 28% when presented with a 'Brown as leader' scenario. http://www.yougov.com/archives/pdf/TEL070101006_1.pdf - March 2007 poll by YouGov for the Daily Telegraph. Given a direct Blair or Brown choice, 35% prefer Blair, 25% prefer Brown, 40% don't know.

A recent poll in the South showed that 100% of voters would prefer a General Election to a Party Leadership Contest.

Co-operative Party
Is (or was) Gordon Brown a member of the ? He is listed as such on that article, but there's no mention of it on this article. The Co-operative Party website has a quote from him on the main page, but he's not listed on the Parliamentary Representation page. --Vclaw 23:29, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


 * He is not a Labour and Co-operative MP (which would mean the Co-operative Party sponsoring him as a candidate at each election), but he may well be an individual member of the Co-operative Party. David | Talk 16:35, 27 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Although not a Co-operative Party member he does support co-operative aims, as an economic if not a political force. --Barliner 10:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Is Gordon Brown a Communist?
Has anybody read his book The Paper on Scotland? I haven't yet, but I heard it advocates the nationalization of all industries, and essentially making Scotland a communist state. This is quite unsettling news if true. It is like that book A Very British Coup (I have a copy of that book here). We should note that Communism and Socialism are more than "looking out for the common man"; they are totalitarian ideologies which aim to take away individual freedom.

I am a moderate liberal, but if I were a Brit I would have voted Conservative (Tory) in that last election, mainly to punish the Labour party for the war in Iraq, but also because it sounds like Brown is a communist. Hopefully MI5 is keeping an eye on him. --Brian (same American who made comments on the iTV discussion) 71.116.106.31 23:56, 28 January 2006 (UTC)


 * What Nonsence! Oh and the Torys would have gone to war anyway if they had been in power. So where's the punishment? "I won't vote for you, but i'll vote for the other party who would have still gone to war". Yes... right..ok. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.12.116.9 (talk • contribs)


 * Is this relevant? Molerat 21:49, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


 * No. rofl 71.116.106.31 05:04, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry if I was a bit harsh earlier. If you can add something to the article that is notable, not original research, verifiable and has a neutral point of view related to this, go for it.


 * About your points: socialism and communism are not synonymous. I don't know if socialism is defined differently in the United States, but in my experience it refers mainly to advocacy of the welfare state and giving everybody an equal chance in life. It is not seen to be extreme. The Conservative party also supported the Iraq war, and many in the left of the Labour party opposed the war for various reasons. In the UK, while communism is seen as extreme, it is not seen as a threat to the country, and people who may be viewed as having communist ideals are not persecuted. Personally, I'm much more worried about extremist parties such as the UK(R)IP and the BNP, although the majority of the public sees straight through them. Molerat 22:56, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * To be honest, if he's not a member of ZOG I don't know who is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.198.250.9 (talk • contribs)

He was a socialist at uni. So were half the tory front bench. get over it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.232.249.153 (talk • contribs)

Gordon Brown is not only a pure capitalist and a Tory he also a Thatcherite just as Blair was before him. SmokeyTheCat 10:56, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

BROWN IS NO COMMUNIST - if anything he is a British nationalist in the mold os Oswald Mosley - semi-fascist may be more accurate considering recent statements on curtailing civil liberties, 'British Day' and his attitude toward minorities!

Incidentally, why is absolutely no mention made of his recent refusal to congratulate his political enemy Alex Salmond on political success in Scotland? Brown is a fraud, a trickster and a spinner-extraordinare. He should have to go to the country and cant just inherit the post of PM especially when Blair promised the electorate he would serve a full third term in 2005!

"cultivated"
Brown "cultivated a dour and even miserly air"???? Why would any politician, especially one with designs on the top job, "cultivate" such a public persona? He was seen by many as possessing those characteristics, but that's far removed from intentionally acting so as to give that impression. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.153.219.170 (talk • contribs)

Breathing problem
Is GB asthmatic or does he have some other breathing problem? Does anyone know why he has to gasp for breathe all the time? 80.176.129.249 12:20, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Because he's overweight?

True, his BMI and plethoric face would place him in the 'clinically obese' range according to NHS Direct information.


 * Perhaps he has trouble catching his breath.- Amorwikipedia 00:31, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

He used to be a smoker, as you can tell by his voice. (DaveyJones1968 18:52, 8 June 2007 (UTC))

Burglar and "glass" eye
This article seems to be attracting a lot of playful vandalism. Is there any proof whatsoever for the line about wanting to be a burglar? Gabriel R 15:59, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * ...or that his blind eye is made of glass? Gabriel R 13:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * ...a comment which was reintroduced recently by User talk:Shpanda. I've added a link to the Guardian's description of the injury and operations.  The most reliable authority on the web that the whole eye was removed is by David Irving .  Ipso facto, it was not :) --Cedderstk 17:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * it is common knowledge that Gordon Brown has a glass eye...don't be so 'outrageous' Cedders.82.45.189.237 21:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * At one time Brown had a contact lens made to hide a cataract that developed in his blind eye; the eye is therefore not glass. Refer p.120, "Gordon Brown, The first year in power" by Hugh Pym & Nick Kochan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.5.137.19 (talk • contribs)
 * First learn to sign your comments; then feel free to pass comments on Mr. Brown's wiki.--82.45.189.237 23:06, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Can we please remove the comment about the prosthetic eye until someone comes up with conclusive proof?

"Green" views on global development and sustainability
Brown's April 20, 2006 remarks were characterized as "Green" by the BBC News - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4924656.stm - 201.78.233.162 00:21, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

'rifts' with Tony Blair
This article mentions a few times, as is reported in the media frequently as well, the 'rifts' or differences between GB and Tony Blair. Perhaps someone with more expertise, time, and drive than I could expand on such rifts in a new section? Crunk 20:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Here's a source. Timeline: Blair vs Brown, BBC News Online TransUtopian 18:47, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Missing sections
Why aren't the references/notes, and external links, and info/succession boxes showing?--AladdinSE 04:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * At the 20th and last footnote the end had the / before the last > instead of immediately after the first <.--Johnbull 04:45, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

UK housing market
A paragraph should be written on the increase in UK house prices presided over by this "most successful" Chancellor. The average UK home now costs eight times average income. Cost of living expenses have also rocketed. Great economic policy.

Hear Hear - First time buyers are in hell thanks to this fifer! GOrdon Brown has been a great chancellor for .....Gordon Brown. In 10 years of Governemtn office he has gone from being wealthy to being a millionaire. Whilst ruining the pensions of hundreds of thousands, his own 'pension pot' has grown to about £4,000,000 - in addition to his 'blind' trusts et alia.

The fact that the economy is the strongest that it's been in years is completely irrelevant?


 * Just reference your sources and be non-POV. thanks &mdash; Gaff  ταλκ 19:25, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Sabhal Mòr Lecture
Is there a suitable place in this article to mention Brown's 1999 Sabhal Mòr Lecture? Perhaps in the context of his views on multiculturalism and pluralism? --Doric Loon 21:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Mr Furtive or Mr Incompetent?
To woo the economic power house that is The City, Mr Brown gave the Bank of England Indepedence. Or did he? The majority of currently serving members of the MPC were appointed to the panel by Mr Brown himself! I won't mention the four billion pound disasterous Gold Sale (or the subsequent purchase of foreign currencies such as the free falling dollar). The tax credits that are SO complex not even the treasury can understand there operation, creating a sucession of £2billion overpayments per annum. An endless barrage of tax hikes across the middle class from energy tax, insurance premium tax, national insurance tax, stamp duty tax etc etc etc resulting in the UK Treasury taking over 42% of our GDP which is now more than Germany whilst UK workers are struggling with the cheap East European labour markets many being taxed at a simple 15% flat rate! Oh i suppose i should mention the extra £20 Billion investment into the beleagured NHS resulting in a productivity gain of just 2%. I'm sure we are all happy to see our tax money so well invested!

Furtive or Incompetant? Somehow he manages both! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rmgilbert (talk • contribs)


 * And now we are in the longest period of sustained economic growth the UK has ever seen :) I'm sure you understand that a flat tax results in an overall regressive tax structure, which increases economic inequality. Also, productivity is not synonymous with total output, so a 2% increase in (I assume you mean labour) productivity does not mean that output increased by 2%. In fact, increasing productivity means better value for money. Molerat 21:17, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your response:) Most Anglo Saxon economies have performed admirably even without the added boost to growth that leaving the ERM gave the UK so it is not entirely correct to argue that Gordon Brown is responsible. As for a flat rate simple tax being regressive then yes a can of baked beans will cost the same for both a pauper and a King, however history has shown us that lowering of direct taxation results in increased revenues and simplifying the process would allow the increased revenues to be better invested, ultimately to the benefit of all classes. Regarding your comments on public sector productivity i agree that not having a homogenous product it is difficult to accurately gauge productivity however the impact of him increasing both taxation and regulation has meant that UK cannot compete with global competition leaving no doubt that under Gordon Browns "leadership" the public sector productivity has been appalling at best.

Gordon Brown, Ed Balls and Establishment of The Monetary Policy Committee of The Bank of England with independent powers to set nominal UK interest rates
This policy was in fact endorsed by the late John Smith MP - Brown's predecessor as Shadow Chancellor and Blair's predecessor as Leader of The Labour Party - as part of the process of entering the Euro-zone, a policy which both John Smith and Blair had favoured as did the Liberals. It was also supported by the then Governor of The Bank of England (Eddie George)and also by Brown's Conservative predecessor as Chancellor Kenneth Clark. The policy was also advocated by Will Hutton in "The State We're In".

Gordon Brown and New Deal for The Unemployed
Gordon Brown as Chancellor launched his New Deal for the unemployed in Wellgate Job Centre in Dundee, Scotland in January 1998. Also in the Job Centre that day were the Secretary of State for Scotland (Donald Dewar MP) and Scottish Office Industry Minister (Brian Wilson MP) - neither of whom had been entrusted with devolved powers over job search policy. Gordon Brown's determination to keep these powers in Whitehall was subsequently reflected in Schedule 5 of The Scotland Act - which established a Parliament in Edinburgh.

New Deal failed on Day One in Dundee - despite HM Treasury protestations to the contrary and subsequent claims of success by Chancellor Brown. Not only was this recruitment premium scheme mistargetted on Day One at the 18-25 year old age cohort, neglecting older age groups, but Brown had it seems forgotten that similar but less coercive and much better designed recruitment premium schemes had been operated throughout the 1980's in many parts of Scotland and including Tayside, Strathclyde and his own constituency area of Fife, under a Conservative Government. These schemes were delivered by Scottish Regional Councils using money from the European Union - and in the case of Strathclyde Region's Employment Grants Scheme, were famously advertised by actor Robbie Coltrane who dressed up as Louis 16th and urged West of Scotland employers to "get your applications in - before the cutoff date!" These schemes were chopped by Gordon Brown in favour of a variant of American-style 'workfare'.

The other big surprise on Day One of Gordon Brown's 'New Deal' launch in the Wellgate Job Centre in Dundee was the conspicuous absence of job vacancies, apart from the large poster advertising "Jobs Outwith Tayside Region" in The Black Watch (now serving in Iraq and Afghanistan but then deployed in Kosovo). When unemployed job applicants in the New Deal queue asked the politicians present about the "Executive and Professional Vacancies Job Register", civil servants jumped in to explain that this had "been privatised in 1984 - and ceased to exist in 1989". It subequently also emerged that the Careers Advice Service for the unemployed in Scotland at the time of the New Deal launch by Gordon Brown was fragmented between around seventy different agencies. This had not apparently been noticed by Brown and his colleagues in Whitehall. It then took the Scottish Parliament around 3 years to create Careers Scotland.

No criticism section? Why not?
GB has no criticism section. Cameron's and Blair's, on the other hand, are extensive. Of course Brown is a Labour, and not a Conservative, politician, but that would in no way have anything to do with this oversight, would it. It's time. I'll start when I can. longlivefolkmusic 03:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, perhaps there should be a criticism section. But the criticism should be based on and should cite reliable sources. It should not be a repository for the personal analysis of editors like User:Newtownards. I have reverted this editor twice but I cannot take on this determined POV pusher alone. Viewfinder 22:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I added what is fact, after all it is my money being wasted on a country that does not do any thing for the UK. The UK TAX payers money should be used in UK matters and not rebuilding iraq. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Newtownards (talk • contribs) 16:05, 16 February 2007
 * Please read WP:V. Additions to articles need to be verifiable by reliable sources.  It doesn't matter if you or any other editor assert that your additions to an article are factual, it has to be backed up by reliable sources.--Isotope23 17:35, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

So the BBC is not good for you.

I agree with Isotope and Viewfinder, if you want a criticism section, it needs to be reference from reliable sources and should present a balanced, objective approach, in line with other biographies on living persons. On a different matter, I wonder how much the ongoing event template will be in the prospects of succeding Blair section, its been there a while now! LordHarris 18:09, 25 February 2007 (UTC)Londo06 06:09, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The Gordon Brown page clearly needs something with regards to the savaging of the middle classes under Gordon Brown. It could be shown as a reason why the Labour party is unlikely to retain power in the next general election.

Gordon Brown's tax raid on Pension Funds and the ensuing decimation of Final Salary pensions schemes certainly needs addressing in this biography until then it just reads like an puff piece from the some old Labour lag at the Guardian. Pretty disgraceful really.

After Labour did particularly badly in the 3rd may Elections Gordon Brown did his usual Missing In Action trick. No wonder he is now known as McCavity.

community work
Article implies Brown saying people applying for citizenship should be required to do some community work. Article says this is what criminals get in the UK, and the rest of that section has a sarcastic tone, I'm going to change it, it may also be original research to compare what he says to community service which is what criminals get.Merkinsmum 12:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I was told I was performing TOO MUCH Voluntary Work recently, and refused benefits unless I dropped my commitments below a certain number of hours a week - difficult when working for MIND and The Samaritans, but certainly this attitude, and failing to audit the number of people recieving 'JobSeekers' Allowance' certainly keeps the Unemployement figures artificially low!

Full name
Isn't Mr. Brown's correct full name "James Fat Gordon Brown"? Can anyone clarify this?


 * Full name seems to be James Gordon Brown, as far as I can determine it. Look it up yourself, and find references. Its not so difficult.Kennys 23:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You're right - my source is Tom Bower's biography. Also here: in particular, as well as here  and here  . &para; 23:27, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Good for you! Kennys 23:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * FAT?!?!

Something of an internet phenomenon - "The Bogeyman"
During prime ministers question time Brown was on camera. He picked his nose and ate the snot three times. After this he wiped his hand on his tie. This occured in the week prior to the 25th of March 2007.

It is available on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwgTvM1DtQo


 * It is not clear to me from the video whether he is actually picking his nose or merely responding to itches on the exterior. Viewfinder 01:13, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

No he is picking his nose and eating snot.


 * ...Or so it seems, regardless, it has little to do with the article.

Highcount. 11:25, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Rocking horse picture
There has been a rumour for many years of a picture held by the press of Gordon Brown on a rocking horse naked apart from a diaper (nappy). There has apparently been a tacit agreement by the press not to release the photograph. Can anyone confirm this?

If anyone in the Press had such a picture it would be instantly published. At various times I have heard a copy is held by Peter Mandelson or by John Prescott.

lecturer
What did Brown teach when he was in glasgow and edinburgh working as a lecturer?? I think this should be added to the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.43.98.89 (talk) 15:06, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

I agree with this, I think it is important to know what he taught in Glasgow College of Technology... which after a lot of searching on their web site... appears to be 'Politics'. link GCU Press Release Quote: "...the Chancellor, Gordon Brown, who taught Politics at the then Glasgow College of Technology says in his message..." 193.195.0.102 09:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Religion
Is there a source that Gordon Brown is still church of scotland? If so, it should certainly be in the article - Brown's Father's calvinist christianity is frequently cited in the media etc as the source of his morality and thus view on politics etc, making it relevant to him as a figure. However, do we know that he personally still practises? TJ 16:36, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Prospects of succeeding Blair

 * ''The Labour defeat in the Dunfermline and West Fife 2006 by-election, after a campaign largely led by Brown in a constituency in which he lives, cast doubt on his ability to win elections on his own without Blair wooing middle-class voters.

'' I disagree with the statement above - this was not due to losing the middle classe (as shown by the decline of the Conservative bi-election) but a loss of its traditional working class vote.

I feel this should be changed, but can't find a source to back up the fact that it was a loss of its traditional support. Davidprior 07:13, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Labour Leadership Race May 2007
I presume a new section on the coming Labour Leadership race will be needed - the article looks a little out of date today, given that Brown is formally running for the Premiership. Does anyone have adequate neutral editing priviledges to write such a section? Helen-Eva 11:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC)