Talk:Gorizont (newspaper)

Objection to deletion article about Gorizont (newspaper)
Deletion proposed by RHaworth

Dear Sir, thank you for your attention. We have edited article in accordance to your suggestions.

Nevertheless, we disagree with the proposed deletion for a following reasons:

This is the article about ethnic (Russian) newspaper that is very well known in Colorado among Russian community and has a significant positive impact on a large (over 70,000 members) ethnic community. “Gorizont” newspaper was founded in 1995 not primarely as a business but more as the media tool to support cultural and business development of the fast growing Russian community of Colorado. Back in mid 90s for the most of Russian community members it was almost the only source of news from Russia as well as from America. A significant number of community members were not able to obtain American news until it is translated into Russian and published in “Gorizont”. Russian newspaper was really on damand

As the first and the only Russian newspaper at those times, “Gorizont” was very useful in connecting community members, supporting new businesses, acting as a community advocate, adviser and the media for community forum. In 90s use of Internet was very limited yet and no forums or discussion lists were available. At that time this function was solely provided by "Gorizont" as a local community newspaper represented by a team of reporters and experts associated with this publication.

“Gorizont” newspaper did not loose leading positions even after satellite TV and Internet were widely introduced to Russian community. By this time publication has already created the reputation and popularity. For many years it remained the only source of information about Russians living in Colorado, about their business and carrier achievements, about artists and actors, teachers and scientists who made Russian community of Colorado to be proud of. “Gorizont” has published over 70 chapters on Russian Veterans of Second World War who moved from USSR to US and still reside in Colorado. The newspaper has always supported new schools, cultural and social clubs, associations and other positive initiatives aimed to make life of Russian immigrants decent and successful.

For years “Gorizont” newspaper served as a bridge between Russian community and American community. English-specking writers and reporters always contacted Gorizont team first as any questions or interests were raised. It is not surprising to see American papers referring “Gorizont” if the topic of their research is related to Russian community of Colorado or even political events in Russia. “Gorizont” is always a source of opinions and expertise. In Westword, the second largest American newspaper in Colorado, you can see the article starts with: "According to Gorizont (Horizon), a popular Russian-language newspaper published in Colorado, this state's population of ex-pat Russians is now 70,000 strong, with more coming every day. About two-thirds of this group live in the Denver area..." . Or suddenly one can find pages from Gorizont on the web site of Radio 1190 Colorado radio station site "This article is taken from the Denver-based Russian newspaper ‘Gorizont’('Horizon’). Unfortunately its all in Russian, but cool nonetheless". “Gorizont” newspaper was recognized as a voice for Russian community by many official organizations. It could be the Russian Consulate or the American Census 2010 who contact “Gorizont” to address any important issues to its readership.

“Gorizont” newspaper is well known as initiator and organizer of numerous community activities. It was sponsoring and supporting a number of annual festivals, beauty contests, education programs, concerts, art shows and other events.

Even after different Russian publications appeared in Colorado, Gorizont remain the largest publication and the most trustworthy source of information.

Changing the subject from the nature of “Gorizont” and its role in development and evolution of fast growing Russian community of colorado, I would like to call your attention to the fact that Wiki has a number of articles about comparable newspapers: Vakarai, Seattle Chinese Post, Predvestnik, Der Blatt. We cannot estimate from those articles how big is impact of those papers on their communities and but we can say that even publications of smaller size and publications established more recently were found suitable for an article in Wiki. We are sure that “Gorizont” newspaper definitely has deserved such an honor as well.

Finally, we would like to mention that the article Gorizont (newspaper) is a shorter mirror of the main article about Горизонт (газета) in Russian Wikipedia - it is available from Gorizont (newspaper) - Russian link.

--Михаил Дмитриев (talk) 07:22, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Agree on the content.
Agree with your points -- “Gorizont” is the popular one and a good source of info. And yes, it is very active in Russian-Jewish Diaspora. But I suggest you to invite an editor. Improve your writing (no offence). Writing about famous Colorado Russian newspaper still should be done in good English. I am sure everyone will appreciate that. And, by the way, thank you for writing this article. --140.226.250.111 (talk) 00:31, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. We did it. English has been checked and improved.--Михаил Дмитриев (talk) 20:09, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Betacommand helped with article on Russian newspaper
Asking for help - User talk:Betacommand

Dear Betacommand,

Thank you for checking my article. You have removed all external links from this page. We do not mind to have it removed but the reason we have placed those links was to confirm notability of the subject and to palce the prove of each statement we had presented in the article about the newspaper. For example, you have removed links to cultural events and education programs pages where sponsosr of those events were listed. We used those links as a confirmation of Gorizont really was sponsoring thsoe big events. Also you have removed the external link to the radio site we use to confirm that citation of this site is correct. We agree that we may not need to link to electronic instruments newspaper had created but we do not know how to act in the situation if our statements and citations would be not proven by links. Please advise. --Михаил Дмитриев (talk) 07:50, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Please be advised that we had to undo your changes. However, we took for consideration your concern very serious and removed all external links that we could. At the same time we had to restore and save those links that we need to confirm our content is verifiable. Please review our changes and let us know if we are in agreement by now or you still have some concerns. Thanks. --Михаил Дмитриев (talk) 08:44, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Multiple tags
Dear Beta,

Thank you for your input. By the number of tags you put on the article I may assume you got sort of angry. I did not want to cause you any bad feelings. Honestly, I feel sorry I even started to write this article. I have so much trouble here and need so much work on a daily base to save this article that it is now just a matter of principle to save it for me and my community. I can see your points but I need you to look at the history of this project to understand how did we get here. At the beginning it was a short article about the paper that we feel important for our community. It has no "tone", no "news release" etc. It simply described the paper, the short story of it, the peculiarities of the publication etc. The article was attacked for the reason the subject is not notable. I hope it was not "notable" simply because the paper is in Russian and serves to Russian community. Although, I could have that feelings since I found many less notable publications are listed in wiki with no problems. Well, I thought, may be I need to bring more information to explain why it is notable, at least for large (70,000+) group of people who live in Colorado and outside? I did a lot of searches in internet for any possible citations, I contacted newspaper asking them for some materials, I said I am working on the article about them for Wiki - and they smiled - why do we need it? Well, I asked the editor to go over my English and correct it (seems still not enough). And now I am in a position it hard to understand where to go: on one hand the neutral and simple article was not good with notability problems, and now it is too self promotional. OK, than please help me to make it right. Tell me what should I do. Completely rewrite it? Remove all links you consider to be a spam? I'll be happy to do that and reduce it to any level you advise. And would I expect that next editor come up again with not enough verifiable information and not notable subject? I ask you, please, to enter into communication with me, not just put tons of tags on the article. I assume editors here are for help, not for punishment or discrimination. Am I correct? --Михаил Дмитриев (talk) 20:01, 22 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I am not discriminating or punishing, rather I am highlighting issues that need addressed. If I was better at writing prose I would give a hand, but I'm not that strong in that area. Rather I do my part on wiki by gnoming. βcommand 22:50, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your first communication with me. I do not know what is gnoming. Wiki said gnoming is traveling gnome prank. (BTW "Traveling" in this wiki article seems to be misspelled). And a prank, - it indicates, - is a trick to purposely make someone feel foolish or victimized, usually for humor. It makes me lost even more. I agree that you did a great job in making me feel foolish or victimized but it does not help much with an article.

History page of the article shows that at the first time you kindly visited and edited it the minor change was done – some links suspected for spam were removed. It was undid by an editor I asked to help with English and than I contacted you to explain that it is not the sign of disrespect to your input but an attempt to save references needed for the article. At the same time I did eliminate all references I could, following your suggestions. However, in response to that undid action your second visit left very nice track – so many tags that the article hardly may survive.

I like your personal page about stupidity and it’s contagious forms. I hope I did not get this syndrome yet regardless I certainly have significantly limited English. On another hand, I have some experience with that you call writing prose and editing. Once I had two English Literature professors editing “my writing”. Actually, it was writing of one of them, but another though it is my. It was edited badly. The corrections were delivered to the author, first professor, and he said – your English is not good to edit my writing, we will get it corrected again. It was 8 cycles of corrections – they corrected each other without knowing it is not me. And finally, they said, OK, now your English is kind of OK, we can publish. I did not create this situation deliberately as a joke or prank. I just was scared to tell them in a beginning what happened and how with some missunderstanding they correct each other.

I referred to this story just to show how relative could be conclusions on the style and tone. The editor I asked to help me with English on my article is a very well known English essay writer. Sure, I may assume that my initial writing was so bad that it is unfixable even by such an expert, but tell is it true that all wiki articles are an examples of Pulitzer Prize awarded prose?

Do you see why I have feelings you do punishment (you did it all after second visit of the article in response to undo action of your first corrections). And do you see why do I feel this a sort of discrimination. Should I make an experiment? Should I write an article for wiki about one of many smallest Arabic Colorado paper and prove it will be no actions against those articles with so many tags like in your comment? (Let’s say I am just kidding).

OK, let’s just get practical. As you spent that much time tagging my article, please be so kind to go with me from tag to tag and help me with more particular suggestions to fix it to the level those tags could be removed. Would you, please? And I promises I will not hold any gnomes in a prison of my yard :-)--Михаил Дмитриев (talk) 00:19, 23 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Betacommand has tagged the article to alert interested editors in specific areas that the article needs work. Please quit asking him to edit the prose for you, as he has stated this is not his area. Wikipedia is volunteer work. I will be glad to edit the article for prose and do an initial copy edit. --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 20:49, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I've come in and cleaned up some grammar and usage issues, and reformed some links and such. More needs to be done. Bravo to User:IP69.226.103.13 for their work. More refs need to be cleaned up and moved into the list. -- Stani Stani  23:27, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Notable authors
Let's add the most notable 3-6 of these:

Many authors and reporters widely known in American-Russian communities have contributed to Gorizont. Among them: Dmitri Radishevski (New York - Moscow), Evgeny Segal (Denver), Anna Zontova (Los Angeles), Maria Virizhnikova (Denver), Emil Margolin (Denver, Berkley), Vladimir Klebanov (Philadelfia), Mark Pecherskiy (San-Francisco), Inna Kolobova (Dallas), Yuri Kolker (London), Eugin Berkovich (Hannover), Victor Topaller (Tel Aviv, New York), Mark Nolski (Denver), David Genis (Denver), Semen Dukarevich (Denver), Dmitri Klein - Kalinin (Denver), Zoya Master (Denver), Svetlana Kollesnikova (Denver), Ernest Stefanovich (Lithuania) and others.

and link to their notability. --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 07:08, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

It is difficult to find links in English for most of listed authors.
 * Victor Topaller - author, reporter, TV host, artisti, political activist etc - here is a link to one of his books
 * Dmitri Klein - The Laureate of National Award "Golden Pen of Russia" 2008, 2009. I could not find reference in English

Three authors were found in Russian Wiki.


 * Yuri Kolker - ru.wiki
 * Evgeniy Berkovich - ru.wiki
 * Ernest Stefanovich - ru.wiki

I would agree some of names are prominent and known in Russian Literature or Journalism but I really do not know if any author's names should be listed in this article at al. --3ont (talk) 16:19, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Date 2001, 1995
It doesn't matter what it feels like, the reference given says 2001. If you find another reference that lists a different date, feel free to add that. --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 07:10, 25 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Bravo! IP69.226.103.13 Looks much better. Documents on 1995 or 1997 are placed here http://3ont.livejournal.com/919.html and link to changes of the company in 1997 is here http://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/ViewImage.do?masterFileId=19971150794&fileId=19971150794 . And I have no idea about notability of those authors. I've seen those in a paper a lot and assume some of them are big names but I am not an expert. Can say only that Victor Topaller is a big star - very popular one on Russian TV, and Kolker is kinda patriacrch of Russian Immigrant Literature and a big name from Russian program of BBC. May be some one will finde links.--3ont (talk) 07:38, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The 3ont link is, I assume, your blog or something. It's not a reliable source, it just looks like someone talking about the newspaper. Reliable sources are published mainstream resources, like The Times, CNN, journals, etc. --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 07:54, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. The reference to confirm 1995 has been found. Porter, William (1997-12-14). "Headlines from Home Immigrant newspapers thriving". The Denver Post: pp. D-01.--3ont~☺~ (talk) 23:16, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Time to Remove Tags?
Due to the improvements in the article by a few authors, I suggest removing or reducing the number of tags.

Another run-through or two for grammar and usage would be a good idea, and I will take another stab at it shortly.

If no one objects, I will remove the present tags when I do this, possibly adding a different tag about expanding the article further. -- Stani Stani  21:58, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Took off tags. Article stable and much improved. Could be expanded. &rarr;  Stani Stani  22:47, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 2 external links on Gorizont (newspaper). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://coloradocommunitynewspapers.com/articles/2008/08/21/entertainment/20084834.txt/
 * Added tag to http://coloradocommunitynewspapers.com/articles/2009/09/28/highlands_ranch_herald/news/01_rl_eurofest_hr.txt/
 * Added tag to http://coloradocommunitynewspapers.com/articles/2008/08/20/local%20news%20and%20features/20083889.txt/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120222035945/http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=a3519aab6e3caa7f36ecba2bf482fc20 to http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=a3519aab6e3caa7f36ecba2bf482fc20
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090328121059/http://www.limmudcolorado.org/sponsors to http://www.limmudcolorado.org/sponsors/

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Gorizont (newspaper). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080828081152/http://www.russianfestivaldenver.com/sponsors07.html to http://www.russianfestivaldenver.com/sponsors07.html/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090328121059/http://www.limmudcolorado.org/sponsors to http://www.limmudcolorado.org/sponsors/

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