Talk:Gouverneur Morris

Untiled
Could someone add a note on how to pronounce his given name? I've always wondered. (Well, not always - but intermittenly over a long period of time.) Adam 03:49, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Good question, Adam. I have always heard it pronounced like the English word "governor," but I wouldn't claim authority on it. Decumanus 05:46, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Is Gouverneur, New York named for this gentleman? I used to play against their sports teams in high school, the town name is pronounced Gover-noor. Yes: the town of Gouverneur is on land originally owned by Morris and settled at his instigation. The town museum has the original deed. He had a summer house there, and visited a few times. The house still stands. Mrandolph 19:38, 4 January 2007 DigiBullet 19:30, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)

It is a French word (of course, cognate with 'governor'). In French, it is pronounced (aprox.) Gwoh-ver-nur, with that throaty French R and the U pronouned as in 'tu' or German "Uber". It is a very cool and unique name- never heard it on another person.

I always thought it was pronounced Goovenor. Strange name.


 * It was his mother's maiden name, and I've seen several different ways to pronounce it.--Linden Salter 05:42, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * He actually signed the Constitution as Robert Morris.Hemhem20X6 05:42, 15 September 2006 (UTC) No, this is not correct. Robert Morris (no relation to Gouverneur Morris) was a friend and mentor of Gouverneur, and they worked together during the Revolution (GM was his assistant when RM was made Superintendant of Finances) and then in business after the war.  Mrandolph 19:39, 4 January 2007

reverting vandalism
Hi, I noticed that not all edits by User:24.190.151.22 were reverted. For example it reads now "at the age of thirteen" where the text originally stated "at the age of twelve". Each of his changes which I checked turned out to be valdalism. Maybe somebody with knowledge about Gouverneur Morris should have a look and revert as necessary. --Jochen 20:19, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

(somebody also had put "Early awesome Years" for some reason. Edited.

Relationship with Thomas Paine
There is no mention of how Morris tried to have the French secretly, indefinitely incarcerate Thomas Paine. See under the External links section on Thomas Paine: "Major and Minor Works" and search under Washington. The first letter details Morris's actions. freestylefrappe 21:34, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * I've briefly dealt with this in the new section on the French Revolution; for more details see the biographies of Morris which defend him against Paine's accusation.--Linden Salter 05:28, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I would unashamedly refer you to the chapter on Thomas Paine in Envoy to the Terror; or, for more detail, to the underlying dissertation, by me,Melanie Randolph Miller These convincingly rebut the still-repeated falsehood that Morris had Paine put under arrest and did his best to keep him there. Not so at all. Paine was arrested for his activities as a friend of the Girondin government and when the Girondins fell -- they were executed in October 1793 -- Paine was able to lie low for a couple of months but finally got arrested in December. He asked Morris to try and get him out on the basis of being of an American, but he had no diplomatic immunity on that basis and was in fact incarcerated for his activities as an honorary French citizen and deputy to the French National Convention. Paine, naturally, didn't see it that way, and never stopped blaming Morris for the time spent in the Luxembourg. M.Miller

Rewrite and additions
I've done some rewriting, based on the two additional biographies I've listed. In particular, I've considerably expanded the einformation about Morris's years in France, and his Diary of the French Revolution. I've also amended the entries on Thomas Paine and Adelaide Filleul to make them consistent with what I've written here.--Linden Salter 05:42, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality
The section on his political career is extremely non-neutral (is that a word?). Does anyone else agree?


 * Indeed, could you please indicate what your concerns are? Also please sign your posts on talk pages with ~ . Thanks. --Bduke 00:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

The most obvious concern to me, which is why I have tagged the article, is the use of phrases like "brilliant mind". By WP:PEACOCK, we don't use phrases like that; we allow the reader to reach such conclusions from the facts. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 14:11, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Date of birth: calendar
In January 1752, the Julian calendar was still in operation in Britain and her colonies (until September 1752). So, was "31 January" as per the OS calendar (equivalent to 11 February in the Gregorian), or has it already been converted to Gregorian (from 20 January Julian)? I can find nothing online that sheds any light on this. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:30, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Vandalism
Revision as of 18:32, 2 February 2017 (edit) (undo) (thank) Emmakeith06 (talk | contribs) (→‎Early life: I fixed a typo) This user, with a WP history of 3 recent edits, all vandalism (two to this article), needs to be blocked immediately.--Quisqualis (talk) 17:56, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Conway Cabal
The anecdote about Gouverneur Morris casting the deciding tie-breaking vote for Washington in a vote of confidence is attributed to a biography of Washington by Paul Leicester Ford (ca. 1900). I had not seen it in Chernow's more recent biography of Washington, so I looked for it in various places on line: accounts of the Conway Cabal, and biographies of Morris and Washington. I have not found it anywhere. Can anyone point me to more details about this vote? Is this a story that has been discredited in the years since 1900? Bruce leverett (talk) 20:43, 11 March 2018 (UTC)




 * Sources on Morris I found that mention the cabal, but not a vote include:


 * Gouverneur Morris: An Independent Life, by William Howard Adams.


 * American Statesmen: Gouverneur Morris, edited by John Torrey Morse.


 * I also found a slightly different version of the story. In this one, pro-Gates members planned a vote in Congress to remove Washington on a day when they knew Morris could not be present.  When Morris was able to arrive in time, the pro-Gates members realized they were outnumbered, and did not move to dismiss Washington.


 * Continental Congress at York, Pennsylvania and York County in the Revolution, by George R. Prowell.


 * The Story of Old Saratoga, by John Henry Brandow.


 * It seems to me that Morris might have played a role in ending the plot not by casting a vote, but by being present so he could cast a vote, which prevented the pro-Gates members from calling the question.


 * Billmckern (talk) 11:05, 12 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much! The books by Prowell and Brandow are very interesting.  Bruce leverett (talk) 00:25, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Historic Darwin Awards
The way he died (using a whalebone to try to remove a urethra blockage) was even listed in the Darwin Awards. '' --D-Boy Wheeler — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:3810:F130:CD10:3E43:9F38:6F23 (talk) 00:49, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Minister Plenipotentiary to France
Whitridge writes: "His admirers saw his imprisonment as a plot devised by his archenemy Gouverneur Morris, the American minister, and consented to by Jacobin politicians eager to rid themselves of a dangerous opponent. The whole idea is absurd." As editors, we cannot blithely ignore the judgment of subsequent historians on Conway's theories. Bruce leverett (talk) 02:59, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Place of birth, death
The infobox is careful to indicate that his pre-independence birth was in a British province (not the State of New York). Yet, his birth and death are both said to be in New York City, even though the Bronx (where he was both born and died) was not part of New York City at the time of his birth or death. I'm not sure if this should be corrected, or if using current municipal names is accepted for such things. MayerG (talk) 19:47, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Nice catch. I found this article:  which says that the whole estate (Morrisania) was in Westchester County, but by now, it is in the Bronx.  I will look around for guidance as to how to handle this.  Bruce leverett (talk) 01:39, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I didn't see anything helpful in MOS:INFOBOX or in MOS:BIOGRAPHY. Bruce leverett (talk) 02:52, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Reverting recent addition
I will revert the recent addition of three paragraphs. There is some interesting material here, but it has fatal problems:
 * Much, or most, of it covers topics that are already covered adequately in the article, sometimes even in the preceding or following paragraphs.
 * There are almost no citations of supporting references. The only citation is to another encyclopedia.  We don't normally cite other encyclopedias; see WP:SECONDARY.
 * It is ungrammatical in many places.
 * It has been placed in the lead paragraphs, but it is far too long and detailed to be placed there; see MOS:LEAD.

If you disagree with this decision, feel free to comment on it here in the talk page. Bruce leverett (talk) 22:26, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Celebration
Celebration is one of the words that Governor Morris used as a euphemism in his diary to indicate when he was having intercourse with one of his many mistresses he was then chased out of the home by the woman’s husband at gunpoint half naked where he then slipped in mud and lost his leg under a carriage wheel O anagnóstis ton mikrón vivlíon (talk) 00:27, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

'We the People'
Can somebody give ultimate answear who was the author of the phrase "We the People"? John Mikhail argues, that it was James Wilson, so Gouvernor Morris only wrote it down. This is very important question, because phrase "we the people" has very important philosophical meaning in later Wilson's writings. See: https://balkin.blogspot.com/2023/02/the-man-who-wrote-we-people.html Michal.biedziuk (talk) 21:29, 26 August 2023 (UTC)