Talk:Graduation

Discussion
Unless this article is expanded, explaining a history of Graduation, I feel that it should be move to the Wiktionary. Otherwise, this article seems to be listed in the stub directory. Allyunion 22:03, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I disagree. The article doesn't merely define the word, but goes into detail about graduation ceremony traditions. As such, it's a valid encyclopedic article, in my opinion. --Ilya 22:32, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I suggest then that other view points of graduation to be submitted. I know for a fact that the Japanese have a different way of graduating and their songs are different as well.  But off hand, I'm not an expert in the matter so I can't say anything definite about Japanese style of graduation or any other culutre in fact.  Additionally, maybe some notes how the whole graduation idea came about...???  - Allyunion 08:44, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Good idea. I made a start on this the other day by adding information about the practice of graduation in the United Kingdom. It would be very interesting to see how things are done in Japan and other places. Marnanel 13:43, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC):Added convocation and invocation as two related terms in the outline.(Linusjoseph 16:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the silliest article I've seen. I agree about moving it to Wiktionary. Who comes here and wants to know this much about "graduation"? Talking about large institutions holding several ceremonies at different sites? This is absurd. None of this information is relevant or noteworthy.24.136.36.187 21:39, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * After 12 years later, I also agree moving/transferring this to Wiktionary. We need more trustworthy editors to fix articles like this on Wikipedia.[[User: Dallas The Wiki Guy 7:06 PM/19:06 UTC-4 (0:04/12:06 AM UTC), June 28,2019

Outline Discussion
Rather than editing the article itself, I'm going to just draft an outline suggestion on changing this article to include the customs from other countries. (I used two countries just to show for example). Here I added some

Brief overview of graduation

Western Tradition
Mention briefly about robes, etc.

United States
Specific traditions in United States, maybe mention some historical quirks from various universities and various university traditional quirks. Mention about something about a traditional "Senior Prank" Perhaps include High School Graduation?

Particular Institutions
Dartmouth is said to have held its commencement ceremony on more consecutive occasions than any school in the U.S. Is this true? It has granted degrees each year since 1771, but were all granted at official ceremonies? Harvard, William & Mary, Penn, Columbia, Princeton, Brown, and Rutgers all closed during the Revolution or at some other time since, probably Yale too.

Usage of "graduation" for schools below high school
Though many junior high schools, middle schools and even elementary schools and preschools have so-called "graduation ceremonies", I'm certain that the use of "graduation" isn't technically correct in the US unless it describes finishing high school or higher institutions. Bubbha 09:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You are correct. Graduation in the true sense only applies to high school and above. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 04:21, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

United Kingdom
Specific differences between UK and US. Maybe how the ceremony is held?

Eastern Tradition
Mention briefly about Eastern tradition, include any influences brought about from Western culture

Japan

 * Mention about different ceremonial songs, etc


 * Not having been to Japan myself I don't feel qualified enough to add them in here, however I understand that Aogeba tōtoshi and Hotaru no hikari are both traditional graduation songs, and thus merit being mentioned here. Aidolon 04:19, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I have some more songs to add here when I find some more info about them online (Sakura and Ryoutati no niti ni?)Michaelsammler (talk) 12:30, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Terms like "long-winded" for the principle's speech, or "rather stiff by western standards" don't really seem appropriate for an encyclopaedia. 8:17 PM 5/4/2008 - Ymirfrostgiant


 * I have been to 8 or so graduations ceremonies in Japan for both Elementary school and Junior High school. I would like to start removing the negative opinions of the original poster. I also would like to add some more information. Any thing I add though, is from my experience at small rural schools and differences may occur at larger schools or different regions, although I feel the gist is the same and the traditions date from at least 2 generations prior to now. I am a new user so any comment or help are appreciated. Michaelsammler (talk) 07:50, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I am adding a lot of detail to this section. I can't back it up with sources. But I think it is important for people trying to understand why graduation can be so emotional in Japan. For example, I don't know the origin of the slow deliberateness to everything, but it builds up the tension of the moment a lot. Michaelsammler (talk) 12:30, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Should the Japanese graduation be listed under Japanese_Education? With a short summery and a link here? Also, although I have never been to a Japanese high school graduation, I still want to remove opinion from the article. I will check with my Japanese colleagues for reference. One more thing, I have pictures of the podium with a bonsai, and the ceremonial flagging used. Needed?Michaelsammler (talk) 00:47, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

China
Influences from Western culture, any historical view points of how scholars before modern day graduation was held???

- Allyunion 00:30, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This is slightly wrong
"the University of Wales hold their graduation ceremonies almost entirely in the Welsh language, even though few students understand either of these languages" - this should be changed so that it says that only Welsh Speakers understand most of the congregations of a graduation. This is just another blatant attack on the Welsh language.Amlder20 17:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well spotted; fixed. (You know this is a wiki and you can change it yourself, too, of course.) Marnanel 23:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

SPAM
Would a knowledgeable editor please assist here:


 * 1) (cur) (last)  18:47, March 12, 2007 66.114.46.247 (Talk) (undo)
 * 2) (cur) (last) 23:19, February 28, 2007 211.125.175.193 (Talk) (undo)

In between these two edits a prominent advertisement for www.graduationtickets.com appeared in the article, yet the history will not identify that edit. The history appears to be incomplete. Could we please remove the spam and figure out what happened here? Miqrogroove (talk) 02:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * It was added in the March 12 edit. .  Its gone now.  Thanks.Montco (talk) 03:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Is the graduation ceremony mandatory?
I've met a few university/college students in my country who would rather skip the graduation ceremony if possible, but had to go through with it in order to receive their degrees. Some of them disliked the formalist nature of the whole affair, some had other obligations and would rather not stay a month just for a glorified party, and others still simply hadn't made that many friends through college and didn't want to be that lonely person who is only applauded by their family. Is it the same way over in the States and Western Europe, or are you given the ability to simply get the degree you earned without sitting through contrived speeches and insincere frat-boy pats in the back? 87.101.51.85 (talk) 00:30, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Its certainly not mandatory at my university (SUNY at Buffalo), though there are some awards which can be recieved only if you attend. I'm not sure, though, if thats typical of American universities in general or not - the fact that mine is quite large may also have an effect on their policy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.205.101.232 (talk) 01:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * AFAIK it's not mandatory at any British university. There are, however, at least some universities where the regulations stipulate that honorary degrees can't be conferred without the recipient present. Timrollpickering (talk) 16:04, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

De breuitate uitae or gaudeamus igitur
At which universities' graduations is this sung? None that I know of...--Oxonian2006 (talk) 22:03, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's just say the top 2 Google hits for it are both this very Talk Page Section (why Google repeats the exact same hit, I have no idea). It's probably not notable. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 19:05, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Anglo-saxon-centric
This article reflects the view of the U.K. and other countries that copied it. I am pretty sure most universities do not have formal ceremonies. And the article is completely wrong when saying "candidates will almost always wear" this cheesy dress. Existing ceremonies should be documented, but we should also say ceremonies are not the norm. Nicolas1981 (talk) 14:32, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * See: Chinese academic dress. "Cheese" for your crow? :D Shoreranger (talk) 14:39, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link :-) The "ancient academic dress" is especially interesting. From reading the article it seems that it was not a dress that was worn during a particular ceremony. It was a dress that was worn by the academia and officialdom alike, as an everyday dress. Sadly, the article really lacks sources, would be nice to research this topic. Cheers, Nicolas1981 (talk) 15:06, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Nevertheless, from the photos alone, it appears that "formal ceremonies" are indeed held. Combining the English-speaking world, Europe and the Chinese pretty much covers the majority of the planet. Therefore, your claim that "most universities do not have formal ceremonies" seems likely to be a mistaken opinion. Shoreranger (talk) 15:53, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The picture you mention is not of an ancien academic dress. It belongs to the "other countries that copied the U.K." I mentioned. Of course, in any country you can find a few universities that take the U.K. or U.S. as a model for different things. Especially in Hong Kong, I guess. "Combining" ? Remove Europe and you're left with just the English-speaking world. I graduated in Europe and the "ceremony" was nothing more than a paper sent by mail. On the other hand, I have to add that a friend in Japan indeed had a ceremony, with a dress that does not look like U.K. heritage. Cheers Nicolas1981 (talk)
 * I was refering in my last post specifically to your assertion "I am pretty sure most universities do not have formal ceremonies." The pictoral evidence, at least, from China indicated you were mistaken in your opinion about formal ceremonies.  The western garb was irrelavent to that portion of the discussion.  Because you, personally, did not attend an academic ceremony upon completion of your studies does not mean that the majority of graduates in Europe did not, nor does it mean the opportunity was not available to you, either with or without your knowledge (an optional ceremony may not have been known to you).  It is generous of you to acknowledge your personal knowledge of a ceremony involving a friend in Japan, which confusingly seems to completely invalidate your previous assertion. Shoreranger (talk) 17:16, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Question
After one graduates high school they then become - ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.189.166.112 (talk) 20:40, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * ... a 'high school graduate'! At least that's a term that seems to be on American TV and in US media I come across in Australia. Over here, there really isn't a noun phrase expression for the concept (or, at least, not one I've ever come across).Luton Hoo (talk) 16:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

This article requires major clean up, esp. consistency between the regional description sections Turidoth (talk) 00:27, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That's true. (S)He also becomes an Alumnus or Alumna of [Insert name of school here]. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 19:02, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

University of Cambridge
The section on the University of Cambridge is rather long for an article on graduation in general. On the other hand, the University of Cambridge article has nothing on its graduation process. Should the section be moved there, leaving only a summary?

Thanks, Cmglee (talk) 23:40, 21 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Done! cm&#610;&#671;ee&#9786;&#964;a&#671;&#954; 00:01, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Class of...
US schools and UK universities often use the phrase "class of..." (e.g. class of 1986) yet the term is ambiguous: does it refer to the year or graduation or the year that the graduates entered the institution? Does anybody have an accurate description? This article is certainly the right place to explain it. Mrstonky (talk) 18:46, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * In the US at least, the phrase refers to the year of graduation, so that a student entering an institution as a freshman in the 2007-08 academic year and graduating at the end of the 2010-11 academic year would be a member of the Class of 2011.Donn Smith (talk) 21:08, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

"History of graduation in Medieval Europe"
There should be a whole section on the history of graduation, processes, traditions, political controversies, etc. Graduation did not spawn like that, but was the result of many transformations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Christian.ispir (talk • contribs) 10:45, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Original research
I am going to place an original research tag on the article because it is writen as such, not citing any sources for verification.--Marceki111 (talk) 22:46, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * There's a difference between an article not being sourced and an article that contains original research. I think you're confusing this concept. Just because an article doesn't have sources does not mean someone is pulling the information out of thin air. Original research means that someone experienced something or did their own research on it and then wrote an article only relying on their knowledge. I see none of that present here and have removed the OR tag.  Pinkadelica ♣  08:47, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

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