Talk:Graem Bauer

Character photo
There is a much cleaner picture of Grah..grea... Jack's brother on the 24 wiki site (http://images.wikia.com/24/images/6/67/GrahamNew.jpg) can this be used in place of the current one?

Illuminati?
In what episode did anyone say that Graham is a part of the Illuminati? dposse 23:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

None, just an illuminati not the. Dudeman74 00:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

In the last episode, Jack specifically asks Logan "who are your co-conspirators?" Logan was intent on facing death rather than giving the secret up. A secret so powerful that giving Graham up would have dire consequences in the future for Logan himself, the president. No doubt that Graham and his associates were a secret organization. In real life, there are secret organizations like Illuminati, Freemasons, and Skull and Bones. Its all speculation. Coolguy1368 14:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Graham's Affiliations
Based on the motives of Graham detailed in this article, could Graham be some sort of oil tycoon? This page might be good for discussing theories about Graham's affiliations. -- Huysman  talk  21:21, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Aftermath of Day 4?
Since Day 5 took place eighteen months after Day 4, this implies that their involvement began in the aftermath of Day Four.

Since the two were eighteen months apart, is it possible that they had a hand in part of Day 4, or at least the assassination attempt of Keeler? It may be speculation, but so is the italicized statement from the article. Also, it seems to make sense, as putting Logan in the Oval Office could be seen as the first step.Eric Sieck 23:05, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Chain of Command
Alright, I cut down the second trivia fact, but I don't want it removed again. It helps explains Graham's placement along w/the nerve gas conspiracy. Order_66

graem
the spelling of his name is graem (http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Columnists/Ask-Ausiello/)

Sorry, but i have a really bad feeling that that's wrong.And besides, if we change it here, then that means we'd have to modify every 24 page that has the name "Graham" in it. Just stick with Graham for now. Order_66

Plus, on the official website, his name is spelled Graham, so I'm going with them over TV Guide. Order_66
 * Another site writes it as "Graem." I guess we will just have to wait and see. http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2007/01/looking_for_clu.html (contains 24 spoilers but spells name as "Graem") 23:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Again, on the official 24 website, his name is listed as Graham. So, don't worry about what other sites say. Order_66


 * Actually, some pages on the 24 website (ones from season 5) call him Graham, such as (scroll down to 5:00 AM–6:00 AM); but ones from season 6 call him Graem, such as  (10:00 AM–11:00 AM) &mdash;209.244.31.163 14:39, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I personally think "Gream" is more like a nickname. Plus, in the imdb page the actor, Paul McCrane, is still credited as portraying the charactor "Graham". http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0933901/ Flautist

I agree. It's a nickname used by Jack. Go with "Graham."


 * Please sign your comments. This gives them a better context in terms of who is agreeing & when said agreement took place. -Rhrad 19:05, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

There's no doubt that "Gray" is Jack's nickname for his brother...however, "Graem" is the Celtic version of the Saxon name "Graham." That it is another of Jack's nicknames for his brother is extremely unlikely...what, does Jack get a Celtic vibe from him? Since both are used on the official site, this looks like something the writers need to get straight...once they do, we'll either have to update this article (as it looks like someone took the discussion-section-be-damned approach & changed every Graham to Graem), or will have to update every other article. Granted, the Graham-vs.-Graem brouhaha would still probably deserve a place in this article. I agree with all who suggested the "wait and see" approach. -Rhrad 19:03, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, I'm embarrassed. I, for some stupid reason or just because I'm dumb, didn't see your response. I basically wrote the same thing below, but yours is written more eloquently. Hah. Sorry about that. 24.83.211.180 22:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Closed captioning of the show puts his name as "Graem". -Anonymous 19:11, 23 January 2007 (UTC) ""

OK, whoever went through and changed his name in the article, tell me how to revert the page name, or change it back before I report you. We all agreed on a "wait and see" approach. Now, ont he official website, they still name him "Graham" so please, do not try this again and tell me how I fix this page. Order_66
 * The official site says it's "Graem." "Liddy phones Graem Bauer, Jack’s brother, to tell him that Jack is in Los Angles looking for their father." http://www.fox.com/24/episodes/ However! Even back when Ausielle said that it is spelled as "Graem," the site had his name as "Graham." Example: "Logan phones a power broker named Graham, who is surrounded by other men at computer stations." http://www.fox.com/24/episodes/season5/1am.htm Perhaps his name is spelled both ways? I still say we should wait and see. 24.83.211.180 21:58, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * And I see that you've already established that. Whoops. Ignore me, I'm a dumb n00b. Haha. Sorry. 24.83.211.180 22:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the last time I'll respond to this post today (sorry, everyone)... but I guess the best thing to do would be to email someone at FOX and let them know about the inconsistencies? I would do it, but I couldn't find an address. 24.83.211.180 22:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I have added a comment at the top of the page to discuss here first! At the moment, the official site uses both Graham and Graem, and imdb uses Graham. -- Chuq 23:08, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

On the official poll on FOX's site, the poll question is: "Did you remember Graem/Graham from Season 5?" Crikey! Guess we'll never know. But, yeah, I hope people don't keep on changing it to "Graem" until there's an official ruling about his name. Also I should note that IMDb is edited by users, so I don't think we should consider that site as an official source. 24.83.211.180 23:14, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Although Graem name has been used twice on the official website, the most recent spelling is Graem, therfor his wiki profile should reconize him as Graem
 * Please sign. Although the most recent spelling is "Graem" but fans and readers has been going with "Graham" all along, so my opinion is to not change anything until we have more solid confirmation. Flautist 05:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This absurd. If we are going to pick a "provisional page" it should be Graem. Simply becauses fans assumed it was Graham does not change anything but a need to redirect the page to Graem Bauer. The official website mentions both, correct. However with overwhelming frequency Graem takes precidence - warranting its "provisional" status. Additionally, it will inevitably be shown to be Graem in any event. This is a stupid debate. If there is no external concensus, you must go with the majority. Chuq you are being totally unreasonable and stubborn: if it should remain anywhere, it sould remain at the page where it is most likely. And thgat is Graem Bauer. User:Synflame


 * There's no majority at this point. If there was it should be "Graham" since as of this date this spelling appears in more episodes than "Graem". My point is that the character first appeared in season five and the spelling of the character is "Graham" back then, no question about it, and with FOX still using the "Graham" spelling simultaneously it isn't a good move to change everything for just now. Once the confusion is cleared I'm certain everyone would be happy to move the whole page to "Graem Bauer". For now, please tolerate. Flautist 18:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Unreasonable and stubborn? I'm not suggesting a preference for any particular name.  I'm just suggesting that people stop going through and changing it when there isn't a clear consensus as to which name is right.  The recent frequency of page moves shows that something was not right and it needed to be stabilised one way or another - every second edit was someone moving the page, changing all the references to his first name on the page, or even worse, changing SOME of the references to his first name, but leaving others. -- Chuq 00:22, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * There is far more reason to believe in is Graem. So why not leave it where it is most likely to remain if it is being moved so constantly. I wish it were Graham though. User:Synflame
 * The point is as of this date we don't agree there's even a "more likely to be". If it turns out that "Graham" is the official name that would have been a total waste energy to rewrite everything. You see the official FOX site is still taking a survey and the name "Graham" is still there? That might actually mean something perhaps? Flautist 16:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I just glaced through this particular discussion (for as I wrote something about this on the 24 article discussion) and could you just make copies and then replace it all after? --ShadowSlave 03:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

'''Season 6, Episode 6 just displayed the name spelled "Graem". I don't think you can find a more authoritative source than the show itself. Clint 02:13, 30 January 2007 (UTC)'''


 * I think if that is right then that name would be the correct one to use, does anyone have any problems with leaving it a couple of days (to see if there are any counter arguments) and then changing it? -- Chuq 02:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

How can there be counter arguments against the spelling by the show itself?Jwalte04 02:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * He was called "Graham/Graem" on the Fox website very recently. That implies he may go by both names, for reasons unexplained.  Also the fact that (no offence to ContagiousTruth) it would be good if someone verified what he said. -- Chuq 02:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

'''Further evidence: the website's episode review guide for Season 6 ONLY refers to the character as "Graem". Season 5's guide refers to him as "Graham", which strikes me as a now-outdated spelling of the name from when he was a minor character. Alternately, it could be taken as a "code name" he used with Logan as opposed to his real identity... Clint 02:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)'''

I personally think that hands down, the title of the page should be changed to Graem Bauer. I agree, there is no more authoritative source than the show itself. The correct spelling of his name IS indeed Graem--not "Graham". So why don't we just edit it, and leave everyone happy. I am a HUGE fan of this show, and it makes me mad to see his (now official name spelling) name spelled wrong. Just change it. Thank You, Poppa Yami

I don't understand why all this debate. It was spelled out on the show. Did he have a Title Card during Season 5 that had it spelled the other way? I don't believe Closed Captioning should be considered offical source unless it is know that the people doing the captioning have access to the offical scripts or other offical source. Dr manhattan rffan 20:58, 30 January 2007 (UTC)Dr manhattan rffan

Spouse/Family
Someone help me out here, doesn't spouse mean children? If so, why did we put his wife as a spouse? Order_66
 * No, it means partner. Janipewter 17:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Thanks.Order_66

Specifically, a marital partner (husband or wife). LaszloWalrus 06:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Last name
His last name was spoilerd. Does it belong to this article? AgioMan

Only if it's confirmed in season 6, or by reliable sources. So please wait until the season starts and until we know the facts. Order_66

Is it Bauer? The actor who plays his son already let it slip that his character's name was "Josh Bauer," so that seems fairly convincing enough to warrant an edit (with appropriate documentation of course). Don99

His Last name is officially Bauer, i am watching right now
 * Confirmed. 'Graham' is indeed 'Graham Bauer.' Steviedpeele 02:45, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Wife
His wife's name is Marilyn so would her full name be Marilyn Bauer then? Or is it possible that she would still have another last name? I am putting her last name in under spouse. --68.54.101.229 03:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Fayed?
He is shown to be in contact with the man who sold technology to Abu Fayed.

Can't remember that one. Can someone tell me where it appears ? AgioMan

It is revealed that he's in contact with him inthe fifth episode of Day Six.-68.51.147.38 18:26, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Gray|Grey?
In ep. five of Day Six, Jack and Graham's wife call him Gray (possibly Grey). Should this be included? I haven't seen any official site that can confirm this but one of those two were the right spelling (I turned the subtitles on to see how they spelled it).-68.51.147.38 18:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Its Gray according to the official site. I say throw it down under the Trivia section. Silver Snake13 19:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually it's not, it's "Graem". quoting from my discussion from the 24 article:

"Graham is actually not spelt "Graham" but "Graem", and this is found on the 24 official website[3] (in Jack character guide, season 6, and some other locations if found). Can you please make these changes if possible. Thank You --ShadowSlave 02:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)"

So if these changes can be made (if possible) that would be awsome! =) --ShadowSlave 02:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

It's possible that his nickname could be spelt "Grae." Detective X 07:40, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The Category Box
Does anyone know how to fix the link in that 24 villians category box so that i can cnage it back to Graham Bauer, not graem? Order_66


 * Considering that the FOX website, episode subtitles, the ending credits, TV guide notices and everything from season 6 has his name listed as Graem I believe it is safe to state that since Season 5 concluded they changed his name officially to Graem. –– Lid(Talk) 20:33, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see now. sorry about all that then. I'll drop the issue.Order_66

Incorrect Name! GRAEM not Graham!
I was just trying to edit this page and it looks like it was changed back to Graham. Can we start going through all of this and correcting the name. It's Graem. Not Graham. There are numerous sources confirming this, but people keep changing it to how they believe it should be spelled. I'm hesitant to change this page since it has even the wrong link address but can someone who is more knowlegable with Wikipedia start making those changes? -Kraw Night 01:44, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Did you read the comment at the very start of the article, and the line at the very top of this page? Guess I need to make the font bigger. -- Chuq 01:54, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

For the love of god. It's GRAEM. See the most recent episode on this very page (despite misleading link) http://www.fox.com/24/character/
 * FFS. Look at the first line of this page.  Read the section linked.  All of it.  Including the bit about the current poll question on the official FOX site calling him "Graham/Graem" .  I really hate it when people use big font sizes to draw attention to their own comments over others, but it appears it is necessary. -- Chuq 03:57, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Please discuss this topic in another section above. And you can't say you have "numerous sources" confirming this. TV guide and other sites that doesn't officially link with the show get their preview/reviews from FOX, so your sources are basically one. Flautist 04:04, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The episode that aired on January 29, 2007 listed his name as Graem Bauer when they were rolling the characters at the beginning. If that isn't confirmation, I don't know what is.

Technical issues with page/name
Let's get some technical issues resolved here. We can all readily agree that, thanks to the January 29 episode, his name is Graem Bauer. I propose we nominate the existing Graem Bauer redirect article for speedy deletion so we can move this article properly to that one's place without losing the page history. All in favor? Peptuck 08:15, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No need to nominate it. An admin (such as myself) can move this page over the old one, without deletion.  I'll probably do so soon if there aren't any objections - when User:ContagiousTruth made his edits earlier, I wasn't sure in which context it was displayed (Ie. may have been written on some item (maybe he has a company called GRAEM?), or been faint or blurry and mis-read, or any number of things like that).  Now I have seen the episode and found it was written on screen - during the title sequence - it looks like "Graem" is a definite spelling now. -- Chuq 11:05, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, cool. I wasn't sure what admin powers were available to you guys, actually! Thanks. Peptuck 17:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well. Who's going to do it?  --Serge 20:42, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Job
His job is not "Power broker." There are two uses of the word, both of which are misleading. The first would imply that he trades energy. Where on earth is that ever suggested? The second is colloquially used to refer to anybody in a position to create influence, and this is certainly not a "job" in any way. I am going to change it to "BXJ Technologies" unless someone has any objections. Don

the page was moved. --Serge 04:37, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Requested move
Graham Bauer → Graem Bauer — "Graem" is the spelling used in the show Serge 20:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add  # Support   or   # Oppose   on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~ .  Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the move

 * 1) Support. As nominator.  --Serge 20:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Support -- Chuq 21:09, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Support -- Jwalte04 21:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Support -- President David Palmer I don't see how even the most stubborn could still support "Graham". It's clear this should have been done a while ago.
 * 5) Support -- User:Synflame 8:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC -5) Reverting from my initial move was absurd,
 * 6) Support -- T. Moitie [ talk ] 23:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Nobody knew for sure the "correct" (as "correct" as something can be regarding a fictional character in a TV show) spelling until it was aired this week, including the maintainers of the "official" web site. It's all moot now that it has been officially spelled as Graem during the show. --Serge 20:59, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Two pages
Their are currently two seperate pages for this character, one under the naame Graem Bauer and the other under the name Graham Bauer, both providing essentially the exact same information. Perhaps these should be consolidated (sp?) into one page, or else have one of the two redirect to the other? 66.24.228.114 01:49, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I fixed it. Someone impatiently copy/pasted the content at Graham Bauer to Graem Bauer, and changed Graham Bauer to be a redirect to Graem Bauer.  While that effectively moves the latest content, it loses the history.  The proper mechanism is to wait until an admin does the move correctly per the request noted in the section above.  --Serge 01:56, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Title Suggestion; perhaps stupid
I'd like to suggest renaming the article "Graem (24 Character)" or something like that. The reasoning is because season 5 links to "Graem" back when he was known only by that name. Someone interested in S5 or even having seen S5 might goto the article, see the wikilink's target, or even click the wikilink and see the Bauer name and be spoiled. I suggest the Bauer be dropped from the name, and any Family connection be left out for under the spoiler tag (and only after all the info from season 5 is described so if someone comes to the article, they can stop when they see "in season 6..." TheHYPO 06:11, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No. I get what you're trying to say, but Graem Bauer is his name, and it shouldn't be changed just becuase it's a spoiler. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.247.128.95 (talk) 19:57, 6 February 2007 (UTC).
 * I agree. You really shouldn't browse Wikipedia for TV articles at all if you want to avoid spoilers, unless you're totally up to date. (BTW, an awesome feature would be a "wayback machine" that shows you a snapshot of Wikipedia at some past date, for spoiler-free browsing.) &mdash; brighterorange  (talk) 16:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Revealed to the Chinese?
I absolutely don't recall this. When did Graem let it slip that he was the one who informed the Chinese that Jack was still alive? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AdamSolomon (talk • contribs) 05:14, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

He stated in his first appearance: "We should've killed Jack when we had the chance, not hand him to the Chinese." Order_66

Episode/day confusion
Hey, everyone, in the Day 6 section, there are a bunch of mix-ups between Day 5, Day 6, and Day 7. I got myself confused trying to fix this, partially because I didn't see a lot of Day 5. Furthermore, should they be called "Days" or "Episodes"!? I'm confused. Can someone fix this? 72.223.56.173 23:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, it's all okay, I finally figured out that an episode is not a day/season. 72.223.56.173 23:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

One more thing, though (Is it okay to double/tripe post in chat pages? I'm new here): "Day" and "Season" is used inconsistently and interchangably. Which should be used? 72.223.56.173

What's the point of the family tree.
If you want irrelevancy that's it. Neeknitsuj 12:07, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge
Character may have been instrumental in a couple of seasons but is not worthy of a separate page. The character will not be returning and the overall long lasting notability is lost. Also not all villains can have a separate page and not every member of jacks family can have its own page.--Lucy-marie 16:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Definitely one of the more major minor characters but has limited onscreen time with no chance of more and the page is nothing but a plot summary. Merge. asyndeton 17:12, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

You say the same things on every article. Neeknitsuj 23:14, 7 October 2007 (UTC) That is because it is virtually the same reasoning for each article.--Lucy-marie 16:46, 9 October 2007 (UTC) Do you think the same reasoning is not true for every article that has been tagged? asyndeton 16:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I have also noticed that. Annoying isn't it?Rhino131 00:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * True, but its still annoying. Rhino131 00:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Don't merge. He's a major part of TWO SEASONS. Major minor —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gonzalo84 (talk • contribs) 22:30, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Keep. Not sure why, but I would think the mastermind of the past three seasons could have a page. Rhino131 00:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I am interested to know where you get 'three' from. And saying that he is a mastermind of season 6 is extremely generous. Cheng or Phillip maybe, but not Graem. asyndeton 17:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

now the character is dead. The character will not return. He appeared in less than 20 out if 144 episodes in total. The character had no bearing prior to day five and will have little if any bearing post day 6 merge and stop clinging on to minor character in the grand scheme of things.--Lucy-marie 16:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)