Talk:Graham Chapman

Filmography Correction
The Filmography states Chapman was Narrator for the films Tom and Huck (1995), To Die For (1995), and Speedway Junky (1999) all after Chapman’s death in 1989. I could find no evidence he was in any of these films so I have removed them from the list.Vigilfree (talk) 05:21, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clearing that up. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  16:12, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Pointless nationalism
Will you please stop adding "England" to the infobox parameters? It's silly and pointless. You directed me towards Template:Infobox_person which in turn goes to Manual_of_Style/Infoboxes which says "The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance." Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  16:12, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Its standard formatting to include a person's country of birth and country of death. Please see Template:Infobox person and specifically the Parameters section, under which it states for birth place section to state city, administrative region, country. Please view the table displayed there. This is clearly visible across Wikipedia and is shown that it should be included in the infobox template, which I have linked. You have given no good justification of why your niche way of doing this should justify going against what is stated should be included in the infobox template. Adding a person's country of birth and death does no harm to the infobox or page, it just gives more information that can clearly be viewed at a glance. Yes, the infobox shouldn't be overloaded. I'm not proposing we add multiple lines of address or anything like that, it’s literally one country and one new word on each line. How does this make the infobox hard to read or negatively overload it? Helper201 (talk) 16:23, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I suppose the starting point of this is - are you confused which country Leicester is in? Are you confused which country Kent is in? And, as a follow up - do you realistically think anyone else would be confused. I have already read the links you put in the edit summary, and was aware of them anyway. "Adding a person's country of birth and death does no harm to the infobox or page" - it does if it's unsourced and wrong (although in this specific instance it isn't). As a quick and easy way of resolving this, I will go with whatever suggests as he's probably right. Ritchie333 (talk)  (cont)  16:28, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Personally I am not, but I am not everyone. Many non-British and/or non-European people may not know these places are in England, therefore it would be beneficial to them at a glance. Wikipedia is an international resource. Neither claim is wrong, so that seems a moot point. I see no justification for rejecting the standard information stated to be included in this infobox template type. Helper201 (talk) 16:34, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping, and your kind words. I routinely add "England" (or equivalent) after the names of towns, cities and counties, in infoboxes, as the infobox documentation in this case recommends. I know plenty of people who - I would wager - would not know what Kent is, never mind that it is in England. Perhaps as a compromise, do so on the first occurrence (as I did on William Booth (forger), for example), and after any reference to another country?  Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:51, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay I've done that. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  18:13, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * why include it for birth place but not death place or vice versa? If someone does not know that Leicestershire is in England there's probably about an equal chance that they also don't know that Kent is in England. I honestly see no way in which adding the country as recommend for birth place and death place negatively effects or impacts the infobox in any way, it only helps the reader by providing more information that is simple and easy to understand without being in any way being overloaded. Helper201 (talk) 20:29, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, having England by Leicestershire for birth place but not England by Kent just looks very odd and inconsistent, and makes it look as if somehow Kent is upon glance not part of a country, or a country in-of-itself. Helper201 (talk) 20:37, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Personal life
The personal life section tells us:

"Chapman and Sherlock moved to Belsize Park in 1968... In the mid-1980s, having resettled in Britain, [they] moved to Maidstone, Kent."

AFAIR, Belsize Park is in Britain. There is also no mention of them leaving the UK nor, in the body, of the home in Highgate mentioned in an adjacent image caption.

The whole narrative is very confusing (or confused). Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:00, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The pertinent sentence that clarifies this (Chapman moved to Los Angeles in the late 1970s, returning to Britain in the mid 1980s) is in a different section. I've reorganised things so they make a bit more sense. He didn't live at the Highgate house until the early 1970s; he wouldn't have been able to have afforded that until Monty Python brought him fame and fortune. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  18:12, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Middle name
I just noticed that the supposed middle of name of Chapman, "Arthur", is not in any sources given in the article, nor any I could find. Significantly, the most used source, Bob McCabe's officially authorised biography, does not mention it, referring to the opening paragraph of his life as simply "Graham Chapman". I'm going to take that as definitive. (Actually, spotted it, I just did the fact checking).

The middle name was added here on 9 October 2008 (years before I started improving it) by, and since none of the other edits by that IP look like vandalism, I have to treat it as a good faith improvement, though not one cited by the highest quality sources.

Can anyone else back up my thoughts here? <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  13:01, 17 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Do we accept britannica.com as a reliable source?:  https://www.britannica.com/biography/Graham-Chapman Hogyn Lleol (talk) 13:20, 17 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Generally, yes, though I am still twitchy that a source described as "written with the full authorisation of Chapman's family and with extensive input from The Pythons" and citing several interviews with his brother John and David Sherlock, doesn't have it. I can't think of anything that screams out "reliable source" more than a professionally published work researched with the full co-operation of those closest to the subject. It's possible Graham just made it up one day to a journalist while he was bored, as people have a tendency to do. (cf: Ulysses Adrian Wood) <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  13:38, 17 November 2020 (UTC)


 * See p23 of 'Monty Python Vs the World' by Jim Yoakum https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CLfZDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=%22graham+chapman%22+%22middle+name%22+arthur&source=bl&ots=3OTJvETOpa&sig=ACfU3U0LruGIuT158KoUHYO0hPDci-vbEQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5w4Kh3IntAhVjQUEAHe6bApU4ChDoATACegQIARAC#v=onepage&q=%22graham%20chapman%22%20%22middle%20name%22%20arthur&f=false

Hogyn Lleol (talk) 13:52, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

St. Bartholomew's Service Ambiguity
There seems to be a bit of ambiguity regarding his memorial service at St. Bartholomew's. In the heading of the article we have the following:

His life and legacy were commemorated at a private memorial service at St Bartholomew's with the other five Pythons two months after his death.

In the later Memorial Service section under Illness and Death, the second paragraph starts with the following:

A public memorial service for Chapman was held at St Bartholomew's on 3 December, two months after his death.

Can anyone clarify whether the service was private or public, or whether there where two separate services around the same time? I suspect there was only one public memorial service, since there's mention of the service being televised, but I figured I'd bring it up here first in case someone knew better. Warhorus (talk) 21:21, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * It was "private" in the sense that people couldn't just walk in off the street, but "public" in that it was filmed and attended by many people. Anyway, I've removed "private" from the lead as it's factionally questionable and not really relevant to understanding the basics of Chapman's life. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  13:25, 15 June 2023 (UTC)