Talk:Grand Bay-Westfield

Cleanup
Language is a bit colloquial and could stand to be improved.Plasma east 12:23, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

MANY changes. Tag removed. Shopteacher 00:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Move to Grand Bay-Westfield
This article should be moved back to Grand Bay-Westfield.

I assume the previous move here was because somebody was confused by French names of amalgamated communities using a dash between the former community names or because electoral ridings use em-dashes in similar cases. Neither applies in this case. G. Timothy Walton (talk) 19:18, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Boundary changes
it's good to see somebody improving this page. There's some information I'll let you decide how to put in.
 * Pamdenec and Westfield were both local improvement districts before 1966 and were converted into villages with the new Municipalities Act. LIDs were quasi-municipal entities that were incorporated to administer service(s) specific to the LID; they didn't have taxation power and were never considered on par with municipalities. I think there's a page on wiki that's about LIDs in various provinces.
 * Pamdenec was incorporated as an LID on 6 January 1948 (The Royal Gazette, 14 January 1948, pp. 13–14). The boundaries were altered in 1952 (RG, 29 October 1952, p. 297) and services added in 1965 (RG, 24 March 1965, p. 123).
 * Westfield was incorporated as an LID on 23 October 1952 (RG, 12 November 1952, pp. 309–310). Services were altered in 1957 and 1959 but there were no boundary changes. (changes: RG, 13 February 1957, p. 63; 6 March 1957, p. 90; 4 February 1959, p. 61)
 * If you're interested in the exact boundaries, you can email the Legislative Library of New Brunswick and ask them to scan the pages for you.

Keep up the good work. G. Timothy Walton (talk) 23:26, 6 July 2022 (UTC)


 * All good suggestions - I'm hoping to develop a full history of the boundary changes but I ran out of steam for the day. I knew about the Westfield LID but not Pamdenec LID. That's great info! I've had quite a tough time getting reliable information on that era. DarkLanternBrigadier (talk) 01:00, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Have you ever come across a reference to a Grand Bay LID before, @G. Timothy Walton? This report from the CAO of Grand Bay-Westfield states that "In the 1960s there were three local improvement districts including Westfield, Grand Bay, and Pamdenec." (https://grandbaywestfield.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Administrative-Report-Westfield-West-Response.pdf) I have never heard of a Grand Bay LID. Do you know of any source for this? DarkLanternBrigadier (talk) 10:54, 27 September 2022 (UTC)


 * @User:DarkLanternBrigadier There's nothing on my computer. If there was a third LID they fell down on their paperwork so badly that it wasn't gazetted (to my knowledge) and it didn't appear in the summary of LIDs that was done for the Byrne Commission as a preliminary document. I have/had a photocopy of the Byrne document before I moved; no idea where it is now.


 * The Provincial Archives answers public inquiries. You could ask them to scan it for you or just check the document and see if Byrne mentions a Grand Bay LID.


 * Any LID that still existed in 1966 became a village, seven years before Grand Bay was incorporated. It wouldn't be the first time local officials made assumptions. G. Timothy Walton (talk) 15:34, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll check out Byrne.
 * Agreed on the problem of assumptions. Part of the reason I wanted to update this page was because I noticed that the Town's strategic plan copied the old version of this page without checking to see if any of it was accurate. (https://grandbaywestfield.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/GB-W-Strategic-Plan-FINAL.pdf) DarkLanternBrigadier (talk) 15:54, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Champlain Naming Controversy
As I mentioned in the changelog, I have removed the reference to Champlain discovering, naming, or even visiting the Grand Bay. This is a claim I hear often and have even seen published by the Town. Former Deputy Mayor Likely even brought it up during the recent naming debate. It is repreated so often that surely it must be true... except I cant find a single reliable source that supports this. The two best sources I can think of (Ganong's place-nomenclature and Champlain's own journals) both provide no evidence to support this claim. I am willing to be proven wrong on this if someone can find a good source to back up the claim, but until then, it should not be published on this page. Any idea where this claim comes from? Are there sources Ive missed? DarkLanternBrigadier (talk) 13:57, 1 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Rayburn might have it but he sometimes "corrected" something Ganong got right. Maybe W.O. Raymond but I'm not familiar enough to be sure. G. Timothy Walton (talk) 20:49, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Rayburn says it was "Named by the French. In Maliseet Pekweetaypaykek, which is possibly only a translation of the French name." (121) It seems he concurred with Ganong in this instance.
 * Personally I've not read through all Raymond's history but from what I have found through a cursory skim doesnt indicate that Raymond is the origin. Raymond is clear that Champlain didnt go far upriver. However, there is some ambiguity here that needs to be puzzled out.
 * Raymond writes that "Champlain did not ascend the river far but Ralleau, the secretary of the Sieur de Monts, went there some time to see Secoudon (or Chkoudun), the chief of the river, who reported that it was beautiful, large and extensive with many meadows and fine trees" (18; emphasis mine). If Ralleau "went there [upriver past the pokiok narrows] some time" he could have named the Grand Bay, but I'm skeptical of that interpretation. When reading Champlain's journals, I did not get the impression that Ralleau actually went any further upriver on his own, but rather got the account second-hand from Chkoudun. Raymond paraphrasing Champlain as saying Ralleau went there makes it seem like Ralleau ascended the river but I think he probably just went ashore below the Reversing Falls. Raymond says later on the same page that Lescarbot visited Chkoudun at the same encampment on Navy Island that Champlain described. It seems most likely that Ralleau went ashore at Navy Island to speak with the Wolastoqiyik rather than ventured further upriver to meet with them. DarkLanternBrigadier (talk) 17:54, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * (For reference, this is the line from Champlain which Raymond is referencing: Nous ne la recogneusmes pas plus avant: Toutesfois Ralleau Secrétaire du sieur de Mons y fut quelque temps après trouver un sauvage appellé Secondon, chef de ladicte riviere, lequel nous raporta qu'elle estoit belle, grande     & spacieuse: y ayant quantité de preries & beaux bois, comme chesnes, hestres, noyers & lambruches de vignes sauvages.) DarkLanternBrigadier (talk) 18:12, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:08, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Evolution of Grand Bay-Westfield's Crest from 1973-2021.png

Reform completed
I don't know where to work this in, so I'll leave it for someone else. Here's the citation for the regulation that made the name and boundaries official at the start of this year. G. Timothy Walton (talk) 00:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC)