Talk:Grand Orient

Netherlands?
I realise that the Grand Body in the Netherlands is called the Great East in their language, however, I feel a better purpose would be served if the Grand Lodge and Grand Orient pages looked at the name differences, as well as the functional differences.--Vidkun 22:33, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Grand Orient definition
Kent Henderson's definition: pg 21, Masonic World Guide 1984 edition: "There are two main types of masonic government - the Grand Lodge and the Grand Orient.  Both have their similarities, and their differences . . . "  pg 23 "The Grand Orient.  This form of masonic government possesses many inherent differences to Grand Lodge-type structures.  A Grand Orient can in many ways be termed as a "substitute" for a Grand Lodge.  It is of French origin, and is in effect, a masonic oligarchy.  The term means Grand East - the east being only part of the lodge.  This terminology is most definitive, as a Grand Orient is usually comprised of a Grand Master and a council.  The Grand Master is always appointed by the council, and the council has the sole power to appoint any member to it, with the result being that it is entirely a self-perpetuating body.  The net result of this Grand system is that it excludes the effective voice of far more than it includes. The oridinary mason, therefore, has no say whatsoever in Masonic government under a Garnd Orient. This system, not surprisingly, has historically faced many challenges from within and without. In terms of regular masonry, those jurisdictions using a Grand Orient system have seen it modified to make it more democratic and representative.

''Grand Orients and Supreme Councils. The prevalent feature of many Grand Orients is that they have often come to be controlled by a Scottish Rite Supreme Council. This type of masonic body is also a masonic oligarchy, even in Britain and America, although this is not the point of issue here. Of course, as was explained in the last chapter, such an occurrence is regarded by regular Grand Lodges as being a gross irregularity. However, there are some Grand Orients wherein this Supreme Council control has not occurred.''"--Vidkun 22:33, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

prodded
I get the reasoning behind the prod, however, before it goes away, this information defining the difference between various types of GL's should go into the GL article, such as the oligarchical nature of GO's (Council is self selected, and appoints GM from within the Council) the historical trend of GO's being subordinate to a "higher" Rite (AASR SC), as well as the specific diffent GL structures in the US (appointed, elected, all PM's etc). I just feel that the GL article should reflect the different styles of GL's there are. Do I have time to be bold and add it? Not right now, I just started a new job (after 1.5 years unemployed).--Vidkun 19:21, 12 October 2006 (UTC)