Talk:Grand Rapids, Michigan/Archive 1

Furniture Capital of the World?
At one point in time, Grand Rapids was called furniture capital of the United States, but I don't think it's even that anymore. I find many references to it as "Furniture City" online (and not just through Wikipedia siblings), but only a few to "furniture capital" and most of those say "of the United States" with none being "of the world." So, I'm reverting it. Euphoria 06:22, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Economy
I've moved the following comment here, from the page itself:
 * please note: the above fails to acknowledge the influence of the Amway Corporation on the town's economic identity-- although the names of DeVos and VanAndel, founders of Amway, clearly register in its peripheral institutions. It is this very absence of acknowledgment that makes the political economy of Grand Rapids at times bewildering to its analysts. User:24.199.73.18

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Tverbeek (talk • contribs) 12:32, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Library
Something should be said about the renovation of the main branch of the library. A couple of years ago it went under major renovation. King-of-no-pants 01:49, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Radio Stations
I noticed that on the media page there are only FM radio stations. Can someone add some AM stations? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baseball 292992 (talk • contribs) 00:45, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Grand Rapids in Popular Culture
Other city pages have a section for references to their city in popular culture. Might be something that others could contribute too. Here's one for Scranton, PA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scranton%2C_PA#Scranton_in_popular_culture — Preceding unsigned comment added by MidnightSwinga (talk • contribs) 02:29, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

River Bank Run
The 25k takes place in May, not June as stated on the page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GRKaters (talk • contribs) 14:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC).

Election results
The sentence "Not True" is not appropriate. It is under presidential election results for 2000 and 2004. I can't find election results for Grand Rapids, but I can for Kent county, Michigan. Unfortunately, the winner of the greater number of votes may be different for the city versus the county. According to http://www.uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/statesub.php?year=2000&fips=26081&f=0&off=0&elect=0 in Kent County in 2000, Bush got 59.37% of the vote and Gore got 38.13%

According to http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/statesub.php?year=2004&fips=26081&f=1&off=0&elect=0 in Kent County in 2004, Bush got 58.85% of the vote and Kerry got 40.19% of the vote.

Yes, but the city of Grand Rapids only accounts for a third of the county's population: I'm sure the suburbs vote more heavily Republican. Telos 01:05, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Merchantile Bank
Why is it important to have Merchantile Bank on the front page? THere are lots of banks in G.R, but why that one?


 * Because while Fifth Third, Huntington, LaSalle, Chase, etc. all have a presence in Grand Rapids, Mercantile is the only bank based in Grand Rapids. Telos 01:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Weather
I was wondering if something should be added for weather in Grand Rapids. I've seen it done in other city pages such as Salt Lake City's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Lake_City,_Utah

Especially with our unique weather that is affected greatly by Lake Michigan, such as lake-effect snow, it might be helpful to add for people doing research on the area.

Grmagellan 14:06, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Recent Changes
First, photo wars -- I'm glad that we can finally have a skyline picture, but other pictures continue to be added and deleted. The famous horse doesn't belong in the city page, because it isn't in the city limits. A cultural attraction it may be, but that doesn't put it under Grand Rapids jurisdiction. Due to the fact that it's address is Grand Rapids Township, I understand the confusion, but they are seperate governments, the township has a page of its own, and this distinction has already been articulated. If this were a page about the metropolitan area, then, certainly, it belongs. As Grand Rapids is not one of the 100 largest cities in the nation, however, the closest thing we have to a metro is Kent County -- where the horse is mentioned. It may seem a technicality, but this is common practice -- the Chicago page doesn't mention that McDonalds Corporate HQ happens to be located in a suburb thereof; Minneapolis can't claim to the home of the Mall of America, etc.

Next, cobblestone -- the picture certainly does serve a purpose by showing the only such street in Grand Rapids. It may or may not be "attractive", but this is a rather subjective justification for removing a picture, no? Furthur, Wikipedia is not a tourist agency -- it is an encyclopedia, attempting to depict Grand Rapids as it is, not as a whitewashed advertisment. Would anyone dream of deleting a photo of Lincoln because he was "ugly"? Or for that matter, blanking the Civil War page because it reflected poorly on American history?

Finally, one user seems to be responsible for all these changes, User:71.205.123.166. This user has blanked his/her warning page five times, despite repeated notices not to do so, and violated the 3-revert rule. My guess is that this is city hall, or a real estate agent attempting to draw people into Grand Rapids, as the collective effect of the edits is to make Grand Rapids seem appealing and cut out negative imagery. I love Grand Rapids as much as anyone, but the job of an encyclopedia is to present an unbiased assessment of fact. Other activities by this user seem to have been removing unpleasentries from Gerald R. Ford's biography page, such as information regarding childhood abuse, etc.

Telos 13:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * First off I am not a real estate agent nor do I work for city hall. And no, I am not trying to remove any negative images of Grand Rapids, I merely do not see      the purpose of the cobblestone picture.  Who really cares?  We have one cobblestone road in Grand Rapids, what makes it so special that it deserves a poorly taken picture on wikipedia.


 * Secondly, Leonardo DaVinci's Horse is a major symbol for the city of Grand Rapids. Yes the address of Meijer Gardens is technically Grand Rapids Township, but the Grounds also overlap with the city of GR.  The neighborhood located behind the Gardens (Bradford St.)  Are all in the city limist, ther is even a Grand Rapids Public school back there.  So sinse the gardens are in two municipalities, let them share the claim.  Grand Rapids Township has a picture of the horse and so should GR.


 * I'll leave your picture of the cobblestone street if you leave the picture of DaVinci's horse.


 * I have been watching this whole thing unfold, here are my 2 cents.  About the skyline, we have a great picture as of right now (1/4/07), lets keep this one.  As for the cobblestone street and the DaVinci horse, lets remove both of them.  The horse may be a symbol of the city, however it is not in Grand Rapids, MI.  I think it would be more appropriate on a page about the Meijer Gardens.  The cobblestone street picture is not very nice, in my opinion, and could also be removed from the page.  I have one final question.  The section on radio stations seems a bit long, perhaps it warrants its own page, a list of the radio stations of GR, with a link to it from the main page.  Something like the list of startrek TNG episodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_episodes)  King-of-no-pants 06:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I find no mention of either the horse or the cobblestone street in the article, so why should there be pictures? These two contested pictures are completely disconnected from the article itself so they should BOTH be removed unless a substantial amount is also included in the article of the city.  Aside from the argument about whether or not the Meijer Gardens is within the city limits; which is it not, the horse is not iconic of Grand Rapids, and is more iconic of the Meijer Gardens, two strikes against the horse picture.  I also agree that the picture of the cobblestone street is of somewhat poor quality, not very encyclopedic, it also adds little to the overall article about the City of Grand Rapids. --Pchov 11:38, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I am from Grand Rapids and I'm wondering why there is nothing on the page about East Grand Rapids, Eastown or the large "blues" music influence on the town? I would really like to see something about that on this page. I currently don't live in GR, but when I think of home, I think of "Blues on the Mall" and "Eastown Street Fair", Yesterdog... as well as all the live music (a live band somewhere every night of the week). And yes, also the cobblestone/brick roadS. There are more than just one of these roads (for whoever wrote there is only one), Cherry St., Wealthy St., Lakeside Dr., the streets running along and behind Michigan St., "Look-out Hill" and all sorts of back alley roads in Heritage Hill/Cherry Hill neighborhoods. I think the cobblestone and brick roads are significant, they're part of the signature of the town. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.46.0.13 (talk) 15:29, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Leonardo da Vinci's Horse
This seems to be an on going debate regarding the picture of Leonardo da Vinci's Horse. I had removed this picture citing the fact that the horse is not within the City of Grand Rapids (in fact, it resides within Grand Rapids Charter Township), it was also not mentioned anywhere in this article. The picture has since been placed back on this page. I will be removing it once again. --Pchov 14:01, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Image Grdowntown.jpg is NOT A COPYVIO
Yassie...this is an Image I took with my own camera on my own time and I release this image and all its copyrighted privileges. I understand that the previous Image I was posting was copyrighted and for that I am sorry...but this one is not. Please discuss on here before you once again attempt to remove my image. ---Eman1114 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eman1114 (talk • contribs) 19:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Gerald Rudolff Ford
The biography for Gerald Rudolff Ford who raised Gerald Ford and for whom Ford legally changed his name has been nominated for deletion as being non-notable. The man is the reason why Ford was raised in Grand Rapids. You can make your comments at Articles for deletion/Gerald Rudolff Ford. Americasroof 05:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Removal of links
I don't agree with the removal of the majority of links on 12/18. They were all relevant to Grand Rapids. --Trackstand 04:21, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Just being "relevant" isn't enough; they have to be sources of encyclopedic information. Lately people have been adding more and more links to local businesses and organizations they want to promote, treating this like some kind of portal or guide to Grand Rapids, and that's simply not the purpose of Wikipedia. It's also debatable whether local activist groups like GRIID and Media Mouse (both of which I like, by the way) are really notable enough to warrant articles. See WP:NOT. Tverbeek 12:19, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I just removed a ton of external links that provide no encyclopedic content, many of them were for commercial companies. Please read Wikipedia's guidelines on external links before adding any more external links.  --Pchov (talk) 21:24, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

M-44 Connector sign is incorrect HELP
Didn't know how to do this one. Sorry. Maybe somebody can HELP. 7&amp;6=thirteen (talk) 21:16, 20 January 2008 (UTC)Stan

Revision of the page
I am currently working on a new version of this page on a seperate page. I do not wish to have everybody comment on it yet since it has my personal comments inbedded into the text that needs to removed. Also I need to find Citations for pretty much the entire article ARGH! In anycase once I get that stuff done over the course of the next month I wish to have it checked over before we do a massive revision of the present article. I do not wish to OWN this article but this page is pretty sloppy and needs to much work to just do minor edits. In due time I will get this done but I am making this one of my pet projects to get done this winter. I tend to get this stuff done pretty fast as I did in the Medical Corridor article. If anybody has anything else they would like to have in the article you can just let me know. Right now I have the layout pretty much done but I do have one question.

As of the past decade their has been a major reconstruction of the city. Some would say revival or a lot small projects but in any case where in the present article would be a good place to locate that at. I really feel if anybody would look at this city 15 years ago to now they be shocked at how much has changed. --Mihsfbstadium (talk) 21:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I am not sure if the article needs to be completely rewritten but the answer to your question is the reconstruction of the city should be in the history section. - Epousesquecido (talk) 01:28, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Gabriel Monge-Franco/Gabrielinux

 * (Moved from Talk:Michigan.)

Anyone know who Gabriel Monge-Franco (aka Gabrielinux) is? He claims to be a famous Grand Rapidian.

At 1:34 on June 8 he added himself to list of “Notable current/former residents”:
 * Gabriel Monge-Franco, open source developer, computer hacker, author and renown humanitarian.

At 1:38 on June 8 he removes the following from the list of “Notable current/former residents”, saying he “Cleaned up random people that were thrown in this section who are NOT even a bit famous”, but he keeps himself on this list: So, apparently, Gabriel Monge-Franco is more famous than Richard DeVos, Paul Schrader, Del Shannon, Jay VanAndel and the others? Has Gabriel Monge-Franco not seen the landmarks around Grand Rapids named after DeVos and VanAndel?
 * Ray Bentley, Buffalo Bills linebacker and commentator and author
 * Ralston Bowles, recording artist
 * DeBarge family, recording artists
 * Richard DeVos co-founder, Amway and Owner, Orlando Magic of NBA
 * Vernon J. Ehlers U.S. Congressman
 * Arnold Gingrich, founder Esquire Magazine
 * Al Green, singer
 * John A. Hannah, Michigan State College (MSU) President
 * Adina Howard, recording artist
 * H. Wayne Huizenga, owner, Miami Dolphins
 * Josh Kalis, professional skateboarder
 * Chris Kaman, basketball player
 * Marvin Sapp, Noted gospel recording artist, Pastor of Light House Church of Worship and Praise
 * Wally Phillips, radio personality
 * Paul Schrader, film maker
 * L. William Seidman, economist and financial commentator
 * Del Shannon, recording artist
 * William Alden Smith, U.S. Senator, in 1912 was Chairmen of Committee investigating the sinking of Titanic.
 * Mustard Plug, well-known Ska Punk band
 * Still Remains, internationally-known metal band
 * Jay Van Andel, co-founder, Amway
 * Jason Wood, vocalist for NY band It Dies Today

At 23:42 on June 15, for some reason he scrambles up some of the names on the list of “Notable current/former residents”, moving Marvin Sapp between Chris Kaman and Maynard James Keenan, Mustard Plug between William Alden Smith and Still Remains, and Michael Kooreman to the bottom. At 23:45 on June 15, he adds his name to the list of “Notable current/former residents”, saying he “Undid vandalism performed by Phizzy”:
 * Gabriel Monge-Franco, writer, poet, computer hacker, musician and humanitarian.

At 23:47 on June 15, he adds a link to "External links": Phizzy (talk) 13:32, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Gabriel Monge-Franco's blog and adventures on Grand Rapids


 * Looks like a problem.--Parkwells (talk) 13:35, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Indeed. A couple of thoughts, though.  First is that this should be raised on the Grand Rapids talk page, not here.  Second, that entire "list of notables" really should not be there at all.  The preferred method is to link to the separate Wikipedia page - see here.  Third, I'll at least take out the link to his blog.  Whether or not he's notable (seems unlikely, eh?), it violates WP:COI for him to add it.  JohnInDC (talk) 13:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I meant to put this on the Grand Rapids talk page. Phizzy (talk) 14:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If Parkwells doesn't object then you can just copy the whole discussion over to there, with a note there that that is what you've done. JohnInDC (talk) 14:12, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I wound up removing both the external link to the blog, as contrary to WP:COI and WP:ELNO (#12 - avoid "Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority."); also the self-referential entry as a 'notable' for lack of evident notability WP:BIO, and also as problematic under WP:COI and WP:ELNO. That whole list could use a paring - a sensible and informed one, but a paring nevertheless - and as I said above, truly the best thing to do is remove it from the page altogether and fold it into the separate Wikipedia page that already exists for the purpose.  JohnInDC (talk) 14:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Notable current/former residents
I deleted the name Brenda Garcia from this list as it was not cited. Many of the other names should be deleted also unless cites can be found. - Epousesquecido 23:25, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello. I added the band Whirlwind Heat. They've put many records out and toured the world repeatedly, so therefore they're notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.176.249.232 (talk) 18:16, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Quadrant definitions are wrong
Division is the E/W dividing line south of about Leonard, but north of there it gets funky for a while until eventually the river ends up being the dividing line. I'm going to try to work it out, but I know there are some streets just east of Monroe b/t Knapp and Ann where the adresses go up from the middle of the block (12, 8, 2, 6, 14 for example) Any help would be appreciated.Vrefron (talk) 15:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks to me if Division continued due north from Michigan St. it would indeed divide those streets. Perhaps the wording could be changed to reflect that the street doesn't divide the city, but the line that does can be described by a portion of the street...? —Zeagler (talk) 16:37, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Population figures etc. at Lansing, Michigan and Grand Rapids, Michigan
The edits on this page by user Calebrod3294 are part of a larger pattern. He has changed many articles. The figures on these two are so screwed up by his many apparently vandalizing edits that they need to be undone -- reversion would help. This user needs to be warned, blocked, etc. This is above my pay grade. 7&amp;6=thirteen (talk) 01:33, 15 February 2009 (UTC) Stan

One of the principal cities in west Michigan?
This article used to state that Grand Rapids is the principal city in west Michigan. Now it states that it is one of the principal cities in west Michigan. Given that Grand Rapids is the center of the Grand Rapids-Muskegon-Holland, Michigan combined statistical area, the only CSA in west Michigan, I think it is better to say that Grand Rapids is the principal city of west Michigan. Pdcook (talk) 01:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed and changed to "largest city in West Michigan". "Principal" is too vague here. --Thomprod (talk) 12:51, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds much better now! Pdcook (talk) 16:53, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Entertainment and performing arts
This section has turned into a list of people's favorite celebrities. I really like the Red Hot Chili Peppers, but how is it relevant to the Grand Rapids entertainment scene that Anthony Kiedis lived here as a kid? This sort of stuff belongs in the List of people associated with Grand Rapids, Michigan article. It would be more informative to talk about venues, not people. I might rewrite this section unless someone has a better idea. Pdcook (talk) 17:06, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I moved individuals to List of people associated with Grand Rapids, Michigan and provided a link to it. The section speaks just of venues now, albeit not very well. Pdcook (talk) 16:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Culture-La Grande Vitesse
Is there a reason to give the French phrase for "Grand Rapids" (les rapides grandiose) in the parenthetical phrase, after the explanation of the grammatical incorrectness of "la grande vitesse"? Are we insinuating that Alexander Calder should have named it les rapides grandiose? Pdcook (talk) 20:28, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I simply removed the phrase about it being grammatically incorrect, as it really isn't relevant to rest of the context of the paragraph. Pdcook (talk) 02:07, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

New picture for the new skyline?
Does anyone have a good picture that shows the new River House Condominiums? It's a fairly dominant feature of the Grand Rapids skyline and we should probably show it in the article. PDCook (talk) 02:40, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

links to nonexistent Wikipedia articles
The tourism section of this article has many links to nonexistent articles. I don't feel like going back and seeing who made these, but was anyone planning on making pages where those links are pointing? If not, we should remove the links and just put plain text. Pdcook (talk) 21:45, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Since no one has responded or made the links in question into Wikipedia articles, I'm going to remove the redlinks. Just plain text will look better. Pdcook (talk) 21:31, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

✅ PDCook (talk) 14:59, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Economy/area businesses
The economy section is beginning to get a little too list-like (particularly the last few sentences). This tends to happen when people keep adding different industries and companies they know about. Now it's to the point where it's difficult to rewrite it into a coherent section. Should we create a separate article that lists companies in the Grand Rapids area, provide a link to that article in the economy section and speak more generally about the economy in the economy section in the parent article? Pdcook (talk) 21:59, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Should add that Grand Rapids is the "Most" Sustainable midsized city in country according to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Civic Leadership Center and Siemens Corp.

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2010/05/post_30.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blittled (talk • contribs) 01:20, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Transportation history
I was thinking it might be a good idea to move the transportation history into the Transportation section. Some of it is a little redundant and it might be better to group it all together. Any objections? P. D. Cook Talk to me! 14:06, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Rapids?
Is there any history as to when the "Rapids" on the Grand River were removed? I am assuming they were flattened to facilitate the transportation of lumber down the river, but I was wondering if that is true or not.
 * I believe with the addition of the sixth street dam, the rapids were taken away from the river. I'm not quite sure if this is correct, either. King-of-no-pants 03:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

12.75.43.149 17:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)Grand Rapids' river rapids fall 1000 feet between the Ann Street bridge and Wealthy Street bridge. The rapids were eliminated by several weirs to control flodding and to create electricity. the Sixth Street dam had two purposes. First, to create electricity and second, to divert some of the river water for a power canal (now removed) that created water power for several industrial sites along it. The power canal ran from the Sixth Street dam to Pearl Street where the Public Museum now stands. The power canal was drained and filled-in in the 1960's. The electric company that used the Sixth Street dam was disbanded back in the early part of the 20th century and its building and equipment removed. The only evidence of it today are the two cement projections from the middle of the dam. 12.75.43.149 17:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

That, and 'the tooth", a small rocky island in the Grand River, near the Public Museum. This was built to hold a transmission tower for the electrical lines from the power company.  It was the site venue for an ArtPrize entry in 2009.Pustelnik (talk) 18:10, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

City Cemeteries
Perhaps I overlooked it when I scanned the article but I didn't see any mention of the cemeteries operated by the city. I think this deserves a place in the article--just one or two sentences though--not a big paragraph. Has this been discussed before? Is it already in the article but I missed it? Any suggestions? Thanks. MorbidAnatomy (talk) 03:04, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see a problem with adding something about cemeteries as long as it's referenced. I'm not sure if it's typical of city articles to routinely include them, but if they have interesting history and are thus somewhat notable, then it would be a nice addition, IMO. P. D. Cook  Talk to me! 00:02, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Lip Dub
I saw someone had added a bit about this video. Viral though it may be, does the Lip Dub really warrant inclusion on the Grand Rapids page? What do you guys think? Le fantome de l&#39;opera (talk) 15:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the short line about it is fine. Having a world famous film critic calling it the best music video of all time makes it an important part of the pop culture landscape of Grand Rapids. Authority 3 (talk) 19:14, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

bicycle resource
Why website lists Grand Rapids among Top 25 bicycling cities in the United States Updated January 23, 2012, 2:05 PM by Garret Ellison in The Grand Rapids Press

99.181.152.120 (talk) 00:06, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Skyline Pictures
Is there an available picture of the skyline? There are no graphics on the article that show Grand Rapids as a modern urban area. Euphoria 20:16, 11 April 2005 (UTC)

I took a picture of the skyline today, and added it. King-of-no-pants 20:51, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * does the weatherball still work? need a photo! Cramyourspam (talk) 19:41, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

1915 Panorama Photo
I was looking closer at the 1915 panorama photo, and at the bottom between the two photos on the right side the photographer (I'm assuming) wrote... © K.S. Spencer 1915 Battle Creek Mich

— Preceding unsigned comment added by MM3Meister (talk • contribs) 04:45, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

River, rapids, canal
It would be very nice if the article said a little about the river, rapids and canal. In "Topography" we mention "where there was once a set of rapids" but we don't say what happened to them (that's just weired!) and we don't under "Transportation history" say anything about riverboats or the canal. I don't think I am qualified to supply this content but I would certainly love to see it covered in the article. Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 09:20, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Metropolitan Area Population
The page cites two different metropolitan populations, one in the first paragraph,

The Grand Rapids Metropolitan Area (CombdSA) has a population of 1,315,319

and one in the population table on the right of the page,

- Population - City (2000) 	197,800 - Density 	4,434 mi² / 1,710.8/km² - Urban 	539,080 - Metro 	771,185

Could someone verify the proper metro population for Grand Rapids, and fix the discrepancy?

Thank you. King-of-no-pants 03:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I know I'll take grief for this, but in the infobox I list the MSA population, which is the most often used population when talking Metro Areas. CSMA includes Grand Rapids and the metros of Muskegon and Holland.  What I will do is also add the MSA population to the city description. --Criticalthinker 02:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

It looks like the CSMA is the 2005 estimate, not 2000 as stated.

I am from Grand Rapids and I'm wondering why there is nothing on the page about East Grand Rapids, Eastown or the large "blues" music influence on the town? I would really like to see something about that on this page. I currently don't live in GR, but when I think of home, I think of "Blues on the Mall" and "Eastown Street Fair", Yesterdog... as well as all the live music (a live band somewhere every night of the week). And yes, also the cobblestone/brick roadS. There are more than just one of these roads (for whoever wrote there is only one), Cherry St., Wealthy St., Lakeside Dr., the streets running along and behind Michigan St., "Look-out Hill" and all sorts of back alley roads in Heritage Hill/Cherry Hill neighborhoods. I think the cobblestone and brick roads are significant, they're part of the signature of the town. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.46.0.13 (talk) 15:27, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Hey guys, why no mention of "Michigans old soldiers home", aka The Veterans Home over on Monroe, and the Veterans cometary that has Civil war to recent veterans at final rest there? And how the cemetary can be seen when driving east on I-96 between the 131 exchange and the Plainfield exit? Wizardofsnog (talk) 01:03, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Confusing revert
For some reason, John from Idegon doesn't think that this source stating that the district traditionally elects mainstream Republicans "even comes close" to supporting the statement I added that the district traditionally elects mainstream Republicans. I think it does. Furthermore, as anyone familiar with the history of the district can confirm, Ford, Sawyer, Henry, and Ehlers were all moderate Republicans (there was a Democrat in there too but he was a post-Watergate fluke), so the statement is hardly contentious, and I disagree with his (clumsy) removal of it. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 15:34, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Notable people
There has been a fair amount of back and forth over who to include here in this article and who to just put in the list article. There is precedent for including a bit on the most prominent ones, but it isn't needed. So I removed the whole list until we can establish a consensus here as to who to include.

That means we effectively have two questions to answer:
 * 1) Should we include any names?
 * 2) If so, how do we decide who?

To me the most effective strategy would be to only include those whose notability is both world-wide and general. Pretty much, President Ford. No-one else.

Any and all input is welcome. thanks

John from Idegon (talk) 05:56, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Use of colored flag and seal
The flag and seal recently added are not interpretations of the original work. The images below show the color, format and design of both the flag and seal.


 * The seal has a "dotted" border, a bald eagle bearing a shield, arrows and an olive branch, a hand from above holding the scales of justice and the text "City of Grand Rapids Mich." and "1850" are incorporated. Behind the eagle, rays of sunshine are radiating toward the viewer.


 * A more colored version of the seal (much of the paint has weathered off)
 * Image shows the details and lines of the seal


 * The flag has a white pale emblazoned with the seal, while the field shares the same blue color of the flag of Michigan.


 * An example of the color and format of the flag

Hopefully this explanation was thorough enough.--WMrapids (talk) 01:23, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Your flag and seal are by definition interpretations of the originals. The two photographs you provided are also interpretations, and the differences between the two are too numerous to mention. There is no reason to use your own creation over the seal provided by the Grand Rapids Historical Commission in the first link. As for the flag, that image could be improved to better represent the photo from mlive, but again, not with the seal of your own creation. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 01:41, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Official or non-official flag?
The flag presented in the infobox is not the official flag for Grand Rapids according to this article. Which flag should we use? Is there a way to show both?--WMrapids (talk) 02:55, 11 February 2016 (UTC)


 * So after WGN America tweeted that the unofficial flag is ugly, should we make changes to add the official flag of the city? The city itself states that the "pac-man" is just "used to provide a uniform symbol of the City of Grand Rapids, and enables the public to recognize City services and programs". [1]


 * I think that something more official should be used for this article.--WMrapids (talk) 02:26, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Be bold! You don't need to get permission to make a change and it certainly appears there is no opposition to using the official flag. I'd support that cgsnge. John from Idegon (talk) 04:16, 23 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Ok, I tried to update it the best I could. This is not an edit criticizing the unofficial flag but one that shows the city's official flag.--WMrapids (talk) 11:01, 23 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Maybe not outright ugly, but the unofficial flag is very dated-looking (one suspects the late-80s to early-90s); sadly, it remains enormously predominant over the official, more stately-looking flag. I have seen one of the "true" flags flying in the city, ever, and the "Pac-Man" a myriad. But both ought to be included on the page, for those very reasons.2603:3015:E81:8040:ACB6:4E5F:4F80:F36 (talk) 17:10, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Do you stop having a hometown once you're dead?
Same place again - in the second paragraph of the lead, we have "Grand Rapids was the hometown of Gerald Ford, the 38th President of the United States." Should or could this be "Grand Rapids is the hometown of Gerald Ford, the 38th President of the United States." Ford is no longer with us but surely GR is still where he was from - it is still his hometown? I'm not sure but I think it should perhaps be "is" - any comments please? I won't change it without a consensus (or a silence! ) as I have no 100% that conviction I'm right! Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 08:30, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I recently changed the phrasing of this on the page to "childhood home", for a slightly different reason: Ford was not born in Grand Rapids, but Omaha, Nebraska, and lived in Illinois after that (Oak Park, outside Chicago's West Side). A technicality, but, perhaps, relevant. 2603:3015:E81:8040:ACB6:4E5F:4F80:F36 (talk) 17:17, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

City nickname
As a resident of GR for about 15 years now, I must point out that, aside from 2-4 businesses, at least one of which has been closed for 3+ years, 'River City' is never used as a euphemism for Grand Rapids. "GR" is much more common as a moniker across the region, especially amongst actual metro residents. While no one actually says 'Furniture City,' it is indeed a historical label, while 'River City' may have been a passing craze, which has no currency. 2603:3015:E81:8040:ACB6:4E5F:4F80:F36 (talk) 17:06, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Although I agree that "GR" is a commonly used euphemism for Grand Rapids, what it takes to use it here are sources. In 30 years of living in West Michigan, I don't think I ever told any one I was going to Grand Rapids. It was always GR. However, I don't ever recall seeing it in print. And there in lies the problem. John from Idegon (talk) 17:48, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Contradiction?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, "The for-profit vocational school Davenport University, a private, non-profit..." seems like a contradictory statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:404:C200:7150:2852:5F3:C2B7:1737 (talk) 03:20, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:SOFIXIT. John from Idegon (talk) 03:22, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Ford burial - on or in?
At the moment the article, talking about President Ford, says: "He, along with his wife, former First Lady Betty Ford, are buried on the grounds of the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Museum in Grand Rapids." I am hesitant to change this as I am not, as they say, from around these parts. If I were not hesitant then I would change the "on" to an "in" so it would read: "He, along with his wife, former First Lady Betty Ford, are buried in the grounds of the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Museum in Grand Rapids." To me this is not a question about the process of burial (although, yes, it is usually in rather than on the ground!) but rather about the description of the location ... "there is a coffee shop in the grounds of the museum" reads better to me than "there is a coffee shop on the grounds of the museum" where it seems to risk confusion with the usage "on the grounds of" meaning "by reason of". But this could be purely a BrE/AmE thing, or just me being stupid, so I will not change it - at least not until others have had a good chance to comment. So what do you think? Oh but by the way I am changing that "are" to an "is" right now - that's not a question of English dialect, it's just wrong! Cheers DBaK (talk) 08:23, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered, ground and grounds are two different words. If Ford and his wife are indeed buried (not in a crypt), then they are a buried in the ground (earth). But that's not what the sentence says. Grounds is a synonym for premises. They are buried on the premises of the library. Rhadow (talk) 22:12, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

"Politics" section
An update is necessary for the "Politics" section of the article, especially since there are no sources present in the section.

According to The New York Times:

Democrats have made gains in some suburban neighborhoods surrounding Grand Rapids, while Republicans have grown stronger in outer-ring suburbs and rural areas. ... Kent County, which includes Grand Rapids and its suburbs, has grown by 14 percent since 2000, and the population has become increasingly more educated. Educated people were coming in. But something else was happening: Educated people who had been here for a long time were changing. By the early 2000s, white voters without a degree were drifting toward the Republican Party and white college graduates were going the other way. By 2017, the pattern that Pew identified in 1994 was practically reversed: Just 42 percent of well-educated white voters leaned Republican, while 53 percent preferred the Democrats. ... White college graduates are only part of what is turning some suburbs blue. The other powerful force is rising racial diversity. ... That diversity describes Kentwood, one of Grand Rapids’s largest inner-ring suburbs.

The Associated Press also states:

The Democratic-leaning city [Grand Rapids] and the historically Republican turf surrounding it in Kent County have seen a rise of Democratic activism and electoral success since Trump took office. Democrats also are benefiting from demographic changes, as the area has grown younger and more diverse, and there are signs the improving economy also could be helping them.

Both of these sources, per WP:RSP, are considered "generally reliable", meaning:

Editors show consensus that the source is reliable in most cases on subject matters in its areas of expertise. ... Arguments to exclude such a source entirely must be strong and convincing

With both sources, I propose adding the following: "The city proper and inner-suburbs favor the Democratic Party, while outer-suburbs of Grand Rapids support the Republican Party. Traditionally, Grand Rapids supported the Republican Party. According to The New York Times, population growth brought more educated and diverse residents to Grand Rapids, resulting with more support for the Democratic Party since the 2000s."

I do not see a WP:NPOV issue that you raised on my talk page. Thanks.--WMrapids (talk) 19:50, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Murders
The unsolved murders go under looked. There was 43 murders including the 38 which were solved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.12.251.150 (talk) 20:37, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

More Context on File:Grand Rapids, Michigan skyline April 2022.jpg
Hi, I wanted to give some more context on the reverted edit. I'm going to list the 3 main reasons why I undid it. For starters, the River House building ends up taking up a lot of the photo. From the looks of it, the focus was on River House, and the rest of the skyline was just left out to the side of the photo. River House being in a skyline pic for Grand Rapids isn't necessarily bad, but this photo focuses too much on River House.

Second off, the timeframe between File:Grand_Rapids_Skyline_(2022).jpg and File:Grand Rapids, Michigan skyline April 2022.jpg is about 1 day. An updated skyline photo usually doesnt happen within 1 day, unless the photo being replaced was really low quality (were talking 400x700 photos.)

Finally, the file in question (File:Grand Rapids, Michigan skyline April 2022.jpg) seems like it has a somewhat noticeable blue tint to it. This doesn't mean the picture was edited to be this way. Hell, some of my photos I make minor adjustments to so they're more visible.

If you want to respond to this, feel free. WeaponizingArchitecture &#124;  talk to me  19:11, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Neighborhoods section?
Would anyone object to adding a Neighborhoods subsection (perhaps under Geography)? I know various neighborhoods are mentioned throughout the article, but perhaps having a separation section, even with just bullet points of the different neighborhoods would be helpful. LimonesMI (talk) 20:37, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:03, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Grand Rapids, Mi Product Exports (2020).svg