Talk:Grasobern

Clarity of rules
Wikipedia philosophy is that statements should be attibuted to reliable sources, and if a source supports a statement, then the statement is ok. On that basis, I can't fault the article. But it doesn't lead to a usable account of the rules of the game. And if the account of the rules is not usable, it probably shouldn't be given.

For example "Taking the first or last trick costs the player a block. Anyone who captures the Grasober in his tricks pays out two blocks to each other player. If a player collects all the Miesen in his tricks, i. e. takes the first and last trick as well as the Grasober, he is a Farmer (Bauer) and has to pay four blocks."

"Costs the player a block" – is that a block to the pool, or a block to each other player?

"Anyone who captures the Grasober in his tricks pays out two blocks to each other player." That's fine.

If a player collects all the Miesen in his tricks ... he ... has to pay four blocks." Is that four blocks to the pool, or to each other player?

Maproom (talk) 09:32, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Okay, so I've checked the rules, based on Sirch, who is quite clear. In the normal game, the stakes are paid to the 'pot' (Topf); in Bettel or Mord the payments are paid directly to the winner(s). I've adjusted the text accordingly. Please let me know if you still think it's a bit unclear. Bermicourt (talk) 14:37, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * I think I can understand the scoring now. Is this right? In the normal game, four stakes are paid by a player or players into the pot. In Mord, each player pays three blocks to the winner, or the loser pays three blocks to each opponent. In Bettel "Three blocks are paid directly to the winner(s)." I think this means "paid by each loser to the winner, or by the loser to each winner"; but it could be clearer. Schleicher, as for mord.
 * It's slightly confusing to introduce the term "block" in the Mord section, when what I would call the stake has previously been referred to as "a penalty called a Miese". Is "block" a German word? Maproom (talk) 16:25, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Okay so Miese is a word of Yiddish origin which means something like 'minus points' as far as card games are concerned. So I've replaced Miese with penalty/penalties and kept the original in brackets. I've also clarified that a block is a 'unit' of payment. The word is (and was) introduced as early as the normal game and then used consistently. The source for that is the German Wiki article and I suspect it's a Bavarian term, but I haven't yet tracked it down. Most of the sources use Grundbetrag ('basic amount') or quote a monetary figure. I've also spelt out the number of blocks paid in the case of the declarer of a Mord or Bettel winning or losing (which is basically as you describe above). HTH. Bermicourt (talk) 17:55, 30 September 2018 (UTC)