Talk:Gravity knife

Break out a new article on "Sliding knife", "Telescoping Knife", or "OTF Knife"?
The article has strayed a fair bit from covering just paratrooper gravity knives and their direct descendants. For example, the roll-lock knife, etc.

There is currently no article covering OTF knives (contrasted with fixed-blade or folding knives); just portions of this article and a sub-section under Knife.

OTF knives, by whatever name (with redirects for said extra names) could easily fill their own article, with a subsection and link to this article, and coverage of roll-locks, trick knives, Chinese police telescoping knives, OTF auto-knives, etc.

EDIT: I went ahead and created the Sliding knife article. I'm totally open to folks re-naming it to OTF or whatever. I cut-n-pasted a goodly chunk of the Gravity Knife article over there. The legal section of this article still needs lots of work though.

MatthewVanitas (talk) 11:44, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Anon edit
To the anonymous user who made the edit before mine: please use this discussion page for comments addressed to the author.

I edited the article to include your comment about paratroopers, because I think it's always useful to provide some context. I left in the bit about the spring mechanism which you dispute: feel free to use this talk page if you want to discuss this with the original author(s).

I have no knowledge about the subject, I just came across the page and cleaned it up :) --Last Malthusian 12:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Article needs attention
Some sections, e.g. Legal Caution, are messy and in need of attention; if anyone can help, please do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.97.233.157 (talk) 00:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Images
Do the images really have to be so big? --Muna (talk) 19:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

The first image is okay I think, the exploded parts is supposed to be 1=1scale, the gentlemans pair has been resized smaller. last image is a thumbnail, should be okay. Also, My writing is sort of drafting/technical, and not prose. so the legal part could be broken into rulings and hypothetical flawed theory Jerryk50 (talk) 02:16, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

this article has been split into the beginnings of the OTF knife, some images still have to be sorted, Jerryk50 11 April 2008  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.23.219 (talk) 03:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

editing flags, wikipedia original research
Gravity knives has been cited by Editor Mike Searson for, No references or sources, original research or unverified claims, quality standards, personal essay, tone or style, neutrality or factual accuracy, and weasel words.

reply to no original research, JerryK50 has put in illustrations and flatbed scans of actual examples of his own knives, Wikipedia lists this as a primary source, and new (approved) illustrations seem not to require references.(quote wiki-standards, An eyewitness account of a traffic accident is an example of a primary source.)The illustrations are modified for high contrast clarity as per U.S.Gov patent illustration standards, and have NO modification or factual changes or new postulated theory. Some multiple images have Figure A, fig B, to avoid confusion within adjacent text.

reply to (make no analytic, synthetic, interpretive, explanatory, or evaluative claims of illustrations and photos) New images are welcomed by wikipedia, but printing the name of the image in text, is explanatory. This very statement is a contradiction of Wikipedia guidelines, subject to interpretation, (see, machine gun-operation,for presumed correct style).

Example - Under Mechanical, is a photo of a japanese flick knife, exploded to show mechanism, It is outlawed under the general name inertia knife by lawyers, it is not called a gravity knife by collectors, (AKTI american knife & tool inst.) it is sold at the atlanta blade show as a false gravity knife, and there are 3 sentences telling the parts and function., this was cited for tone, and removed entirely by editor, and was (undo)by JK50 re-posted with a request to edit and not purge. Please advise how to say the facts evident in photo, assign names, Please advise how to reference a negative fact, (if you go to AKTI website, which is not a spam sales site, this knife is not considered a true gravity knife, ergo, it is a false gravity knife.)

reply to (tone or style, personal essay,weasel words) All wikipedia articles begin as a personal essay, first drafts are subject to refinement. References are added. then, the final article is recognized as encyclopedic. the editor has approved similar articles/switchblade, but not approved sections of gravity knife, If necessary, please post "under construction" Jerryk50 WILL ATTEMPT A REWRITE OF PARAGRAPHS CITED WITH TONE FLAG, and address the editors concerns. PLEASE consider my limited available time JerryK5071.126.43.92 (talk) 18:35, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * And you should be considerate of other people's time as well.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 18:50, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Help me out, Jerry
Collectors have observed many trends in knife design that are resultant from legal rulings. Which collectors? Has this been published somewhere? Is it published anywhere that a third party made this observation? If not, this is original research.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 20:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Around 1965, New England local laws prohibited bayonet points with a sharp upper. Which law? When was it enacted? If we can cite the law, that takes care of this source. Are we talking about bayonets or double-edged knives or both? Swedges? or a Clip point?--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 20:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC) A dealer ordered stilettos with clip-point blades starting a trend, so even though gravity knives were already outlawed, they also became available with clip points. Which dealer? Reword this entire sentence so it makes sense? so what if they were outlawed? Were they outlawed for having a clip point or being a gravity knife?--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 20:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

- I'm starting to think that so much of my stuff is new research, Actually it's not, Go to a blade show.
 * I know what you mean, I went through that myself a year or 2 ago, although my "welcoming editor" was a little weasel who did not want to help at all.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 00:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm looking for this, I vaguely recall it was a boston massachusets law (new england), and it outlawed sale of pocket knives with a double edge or false edge, which are currently known as bayonet points, (not bayonets as in rifle mounted)I am absolutely sure I read it in blade magazine some years ago,I am looking for a good reference. it was directed toward Sykes fairbairn commandos, I don't know why, drop point hunters or swedge blades where not included.
 * OK, I'll look tonight for this...thanks!--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 00:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

In sequence, switchblades and inertia knives were outlawed 1957, (inc gravity) so then bayonet point manual picklocks were sold, then picklocks were replaced by lockbacks approx1962(does not apply) the false edge law was enacted approx 1965(not later than), Robert Klass kissing crane was first to start shipping clip point lockbacks. then then Gutman Cutlery Co, (G.C.Co)followed shipping them. Then gravity knives (silk rippers otf's)went from drop point to clip point too. then they switched back, making them rare collectibles.
 * Cool, good to know...I'm not much of a gravity knife guy, although as a punk teenager in NYC I used to carry those 007 gravity knives with the wooden handles and 6-7" blades.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 00:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Switchblades of italy book, only generically points out false edge swedge blades as occuring after the 50's, and does not say why.
 * Well, it's a source!--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 00:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

other trends, new german law, knives must have a stubby blade ratio length vs width, new trend, 9 inch switchblade handles with blades from shorter knives other trends, whole batches of switchblades that do not lock open at all, they are just like folders. latest trend, 5 months ago, ebay won't allow switchblades, so rizuttos are now sold with missing spring and nail nick. ( I know that is not documented, but I know the importer that placed the order.)
 * OK, I'll look for these, too...if you don't want to name the importer, it's cool, too--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 00:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I just got back in, I'll work on this more as I can, I'm understanding the process. Still disappointed, but I understand.Jerryk50 (talk) 00:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You're a fine editor, it makes sense the more you get into it. Believe me, one of my articles on here about a knifemaker could fill a book if I could write it "my way" as opposed to "wiki's way".  Jerry...I really hope you join the cutlery project I'm trying to get off the ground on here!  Your knowledge will be very helpful--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 00:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)