Talk:Gray Fox (Metal Gear)

Old discussions
Quick question: In Gray Fox's profile block, his true name is listed as "Frank Jaeger". However, in a text profile, someone edited in the name "adam gould". I've never heard this name before, and I doubt it's authenticity, considering that basic grammar didn't seem to be a big concern of whoever made the revision. Also, the text profile lists his nationality as "English,U.K,Great britain". There are no other character profiles with this extra text block. Can I get an agreement to edit this section out of the article? Village Baka 22:04, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it was just some idiotic person trying to be funny and failing miserably. Change it back. --JackRaiden

How is it, that in The Twin Snakes he had a nose?


 * He had one in MGS as well, which is odd. Presumably he had cosmetic surgery some time after his torture. Sockatume 10:15, 11 May 2005 (UTC)


 * The information about his nose and ears being mutilated was actually from Metal Gear 2 and later mentioned in the Official MGS1 Strategy Guide. For some reason, the fan-translated version omitted this little detail (most likely an editing mistake). I provided a screenshot where he mentions it along with my own translation.

Considering that his Tom Berenger-like face looks alright to me, he most likely had surgery. Jonny2x4 03:52, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

What happened to the image that used to be shown above. It was much better than this one to the left, which is now shown on the article. - Hayter 19:24, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've replaced the old MSX-style Fox with the Shinkawa-style for the Phone/PS2 update. I did it to be consistant with the latest potrayal of the character (I did the same with Big Boss too). I really have no strong preferance for one or the other otherwise, so you can revert to the previous one if you want to. Jonny2x4 18:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I wasn't aware this was the new version. It might be beneficial to have both, with a short paragraph detailing the how/why for the change. - Hayter 09:32, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Is the information about Fox losing his nose and ears in the latest versions of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, the ports on Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence?

Weapons & Abilities
"Gray Fox's cybernetic armour enhances not only his strength, but his agility, speed, stamina, reaction time, durability; seemingly any human attribute up to nearly 20-30x normal human." What evidence is there that points towards this "20-30x normal human" stat? Similarly in regard to "any human attribute," there is no evidence presented to show that Fox's mental capacity was increased by the armour. "Physical attributes" may be a better phrase, unless there is data presented in AC!D which corroborates this. - Hayter 17:08, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

It's a, uh... sword?
Does Fox sport a katana or a ninjato? I've seen it edited each way a couple of times. Is it referred to in the game as anything other than a sword or blade? I think the sword in MGS2 is referred to as a Katana, but though it's based on this one, it's clearly (probably) not the same one. Strikes me that the idea of a ninjato is illogical; just wondered what others thought. --Hayter 20:25, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


 * The sword in MGS2 was described as a 'High-Frequency Blade'. I don't think it exists in real life, as it's electrical.  Hitting someone with the blunt edge can knock them out, and it is also equiped with Stealth technology (like Fox and Otacon's stealth suits) so it can turn invisible when the user does. 87th 01:53, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Of course it doesnt exist in real-life, we should just mention what it resembles. -- Psi edit 02:42, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe in Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes, that it is revealed to be a high-frequency blade, like Mr. X's in Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty. Although I could be mistaken.

I say that it should simply be listed as a "high-frequency blade" and not likened to any particular sword. For the sake of accuracy, though, it might also be a good idea to mention that it was called a "Katana" in the games. Village Baka 22:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

SPOILER!
The picture of the Ninja at the top of this page is a big spoiler for anyone who hasn't yet finished MGS. JP Godfrey 16:21, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * How so? The ninja appears early in the game and this very illustration is presented in the game's instruction leaflet if I'm not mistaken. Aside from which, anyone accessing an encyclopaedic page on a subject such as this must be prepared for the possible eventuality that they will spoil something for themselves. - Hayter 19:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not revealed that Grey Fox is the Ninja until the fight against him perhaps halfway through the game, so it's a spoiler in principle. That said, the number of people who are familiar with Gray Fox from the first two MG games but who have yet to clear MGS must number in the single digits. Sockatume 21:01, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention that, as Hayter said, spoilers must be expected when looking for information on the internet. If you wanted to keep any spoilers out of the article, you'd have to say nothing aside from "He looks like a cyborg ninja, and has something to do with the story."

Total re-write
I've re-written the whole article in a similar manor to Solid Snake's one.


 * I dumped the Berenger picture because I was having problems with it
 * I took the noteable points form his early career and wove them into their respective games

There you go, if you wanna bitch about it (As i did about Solid Snake) do it here

(The Bread 04:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC))
 * You can probably scrounge up an in-game image from before MGS; that'd probably be better than the Japanese manual scan.
 * The plot summary is also really, really detailed; it could probably be reduced in length by half.


 * Despite those nitpicks, it looks loads better. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree. Stick with the artwork. I still don't understand the need of replacing the fully-detailed Shinkawa artwork with in-game screenshots, when they both ultimately achieve the same purpose. The artwork achieves this much better, because it gives a full body view of the character. And don't give me this crap about how stylized the artwork is, because the in-game models are pretty much polygonal's representations of Shinkawa's art in the first place.Jonny2x4 17:28, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Nobody's replacing the Shinkawa artwork. I was suggesting replacing (or just omitting, given the lack of comment on the image) the MG scan. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:34, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected then. The manual artwork is fine, since it shows how Konami's artists depicted the character before MGS. Jonny2x4 23:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Is that the only place Gray Fox looks like that? If so, we should dump the image; it's not illustrating a style, just decorating the article. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:51, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I was thinking about shrinking the MGS one as it waffels a bit, but I was trying to cover each appearence of Fox and what he did. The game also reveals important things about his backstory, so I put them.

What things should I dump then?

(The Bread 04:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC))
 * Not sure. I'll take a crack at this later. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I've cleaned it up
And dumped the cleanup tag. It's now pretty good. All the plot summary is condensed, and only the info relevant to Fox has been kept.

Any comments?

(The Bread 06:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC))
 * I'm still sure the MG2:SS summary could be shortened. I keep meaning to take a crack at it, then getting distracted by other work. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 07:07, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm having trouble with that one, someone (I think it's Jonny but don't hold me to it) keeps adding a note on his death scene, that we probably don't need. I'm gonna fix it up and see what happens

Also MG2's summary pretty much can't be shortened, it's very short.

(The Bread 03:57, 3 August 2006 (UTC))

Old bio
Gray Fox is only his codename as a member of fictional special forces unit FOXHOUND; his real name is Frank Jaeger. He is initially Solid Snake's best friend and war buddy in his first appearance in Metal Gear, but becomes an antagonist, turning his back on both FOXHOUND and Solid Snake in Metal Gear 2. He returns as the genetically and technologically enhanced Cyborg Ninja in Metal Gear Solid.

In Metal Gear, he disappears after sending a cryptic message about a "METAL GEAR," and Solid Snake, the protagonist, must save him and learn from him about the enemy superweapon, codenamed "Metal Gear". In the sequel, Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, Gray Fox once again disappears, but turns out to have defected to the side of the antagonist, Big Boss. However, Gray Fox secretly assists Snake by leaving him anonymous tips over his radio. Solid Snake confronts and seemingly kills Gray Fox in a final fistfight to the death in a minefield.

In Metal Gear Solid, Cyborg Ninja (designed by Yoji Shinkawa and voiced by Greg Eagles in English and Kaneto Shiozawa in Japanese), a katana-armed ninja in a cybernetic exoskeleton, confronts Solid Snake. A mysterious voice without a face, code-named "Deepthroat," also gives Snake cryptic advice via radio. They both turn out to be Gray Fox, who is seeking another confrontation with Solid Snake. He challenges Snake to a final duel, for the sake of the battle itself. This battle isn't to the death, however; Cyborg Ninja instead later gives his life to help Solid Snake destroy Metal Gear REX.

Just as Metal Gear Solid eclipsed its predecessors in popularity, Cyborg Ninja turned out to be much more of a fan favorite than Gray Fox in his original form. The Cyborg Ninja has appeared in a number of games after Metal Gear Solid, either as crossover appearances in other games, or in the form of other mysterious characters in later Metal Gear games. Metal Gear Solid's poplularity lead to the game being remade for the Game Cube, in this version Gray Fox was voiced by Rob Paulsen

In Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty, Olga Gurlukovich wears a suit similar to Fox's. Her suit isn't the only reference to Gray Fox; she also offers cryptic advice via radio, using the name "Deepthroat", then "Mr. X". Recently, the E3 2006 trailer of Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots has shown Raiden (donning a Cyborg Ninja exoskeleton) performing acrobatic moves, which are very similar to Gray Fox's.

The Cyborg Ninja suit is a hidden option in two of the "VR Mission" modes included with other Metal Gear games. In Metal Gear Solid: VR Missions (which was included in Metal Gear Solid: Integral, released only in Japan, and in the Windows version of Metal Gear Solid), Cyborg Ninja appears in three unlockable missions, and in Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance, one of Raiden's unlockable costumes is the Cyborg Ninja suit. Cyborg Ninja also appears in the Game Boy Advance game Konami Krazy Racers, as one of several playable Konami characters.

--94.246.150.68 (talk) 17:37, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Naomi Hunter relationship not covered (yet)
--94.246.150.68 (talk) 12:21, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Unnotable reception (could be restored if notable)

 * Fandomania
 * The Armchair Empire (ranked #8) in 2006,
 * Wild Gunmen (ranked #3)

--194.145.185.229 (talk) 15:53, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Why "Cyborg Ninja"
For example:, for details: - and even if it's everyone who are mistaken about it, just write about it (like: "it is really just 'Ninja', not 'Cyborg Ninja', contrary to popular opinion"), and source it properly, instead of just deleting whole paragraph indisriminately, while still leaving the "Cyborg Ninja" stuff all over the article elsewhere - including "the identity of the Cyborg Ninja (サイボーグ忍者, Saibōgu Ninja)" in the very intro, and in infobox too (btw "サイボーグ忍者", even the Japanese Wikipedia uses this name for him in MGS). --194.145.185.229 (talk) 12:42, 19 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The whole paragraph was unsourced to begin with, making it original research. In Metal Gear 2, Kyle Schneider was already a cyborg ninja and most of these sources are unreliable. The only impact he had was that Olga directly impersonated him in Sons of Liberty.Tintor2 (talk) 14:09, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

KS was "Black Ninja", not "Cyborg Ninja", and not even a cyborg at all. Anyway: there are almost no storyline stuff references to begin with. (Tagged now.) --194.145.185.229 (talk) 10:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

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Requested move 2 March 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved per consensus. — usernamekiran (talk)  12:05, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Gray Fox (Metal Gear) → Gray Fox – Per WP:SMALLDETAILS, this is the only article that is entitled "Gray Fox" in capital letters. "Gray fox" in lowercase can still be the fox species. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 11:42, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Gray Fox is a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to Gray fox now because many people capitalize names of animals. The Gray fox article "has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with the term," per WP:PTOPIC. Dekimasu よ! 09:22, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose suggested moves (I dislike SMALLDETAILS as the only rationale for a move). I would support a move to Gray Fox (character) as a more generic disambiguation. --Izno (talk) 16:24, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose Gray Fox (disambiguation) Grey Fox (disambiguation) In ictu oculi (talk) 08:59, 6 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.