Talk:Great Britain road numbering scheme/Archive 1

Date of creation of classification scheme
The article gives 1919 as the date for creation of the road numbering scheme; I'd like to see a cite for that. Although the classification studies began during the Road Board period, the first list of road numbers was not published until 1922. Argatlam 20:20, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

M roads and motorway standard
Were the motorways always numbered M*, or were the A routes originally moved to them (as was often done in the U.S. where the U.S. Highways were moved onto new freeways, and then moved back off after the Interstate Highways were numbered in 1959)? --SPUI (talk) 01:08, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I believe most motorways have always been M roads. They were built as entirely new roads. Some however are upgrades to A roads, and get an M in brackets after their A number. And various A roads have been upgraded to the same standard, but without being classified as motorways. (The motorway classification means restrictions on the types of vehicle that can legally use the road. Such restrictions do not appply to a motorway-standard A road which is not actually classified as a motorway.) Laurel Bush 10:22, 30 May 2005 (UTC).

No. The numbering scheme for motorways was developed for England the summer after the Preston Bypass had opened as M6 (Public Record Office file MT 112/67 refers). A summary can be found here. Bracketed numbers were reserved for motorway-standard town bypasses which could be, and often were, later assigned unbracketed numbers when they became part of interurban motorways. Examples include the A4(M) Maidenhead bypass (now M4) and A20(M) Maidstone Bypass (now M20). The A1(M) designation persists because the 1946 tea room plan called for improvements to the A1 along its existing line rather than an interurban motorway in the same corridor as the A1. The English motorway numbering scheme does not apply in Scotland, where motorways generally take the numbers of the A roads they replace even if it means the resulting motorway designation has discontinuities (like the M8) (the A8000(M) is an anomaly). Argatlam 20:20, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Article name
I am wondering whether the article would be better named United Kingdom road numbering systems (systems plural). The article seems to be about several separate systems based on a common template, two systems within the United Kingdom (one in Great Britain, the other in Northern Ireland), the others in neighbouring crown dependencies. I imagine the template itself is UK in origin. Laurel Bush 10:33, 30 May 2005 (UTC).

Motorways
Are motorways not roads? (ie shouldn't they be in the article, or at least prominently linked, or the article renamed) Morwen - Talk 15:33, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Motorways are covered, though more could maybe be said. --SPUI (talk) 22:22, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The most important A-roads
I'm planning a template box for UK A-roads similar to the one recently implemented for motorways. It'll include A1 to A99, but I was looking for some consensus on which three digit A-roads are important enough to be contained as well.

The following I have no doubt about:
 * A361 (the longest 3-digit A-road)
 * A406 North Circular
 * A580 East Lancs Road
 * A720 City of Edinburgh Bypass

but which others should be considered? The article names a few, but I don't know how seriously to take these. Erath 20:47, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

A Road/B Road pages
At the moment, there is a seperate page for B Roads, containing much of what is in this article; however, A road simply redirects here. Do people feel that B Road should be merged into this article, or that a new 'A road' article is begun, moving some of the content from this page?

Alternatively, of coruse, it could just be left as it is! Robdurbar 12:53, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Trunk Roads
I notice there is a list of motorways and (M) class A roads, but is it worth also creating a list of trunk roads ((T) class A roads)? Does anyone have any comments about this, or has it already been done? Thanks. Road Wizard 13:20, 15 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, the number of trunk roads has been greatly reduced, so should be a manageable task to list them. I wouldn't have thought that there is a single list anywhere (especially as Scottish, Welsh and English trunk roads are all administered by different organisations), so might have to collate from various sources. this was the situation in England near the end of 2004 but a few of those may have now been de-trunked. IIRC, all (or close to all) primary routes in scotland are trunk.Richard B 19:00, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I hate to say it, but...
Actually, we could do with adding "(Great Britain)" to each and every one of the road names in Category:Roads in the United Kingdom. The reason is that this numbering system is used by other countries, leading to dab pages and renaming. So either we're proactive and rename the lot, consistently, or we let each person who comes across this lot (like me, trying to fix A2 road!) chose their own renaming. I vote for the former... :-) JackyR | Talk 18:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Surely a dedicated article about the GB or preferably UK road network(s) would be better?
I've noticed that this article seems to have become the main centre on Wiki regarding the GB/UK road network, but isn't it purely about the numbering system which is only a part of a much wider topic? IMHO a dedicated article about the road network(s) in the United Kingdom with for example: details of different standard of road, numbering system(s), topics of interest, significant roads/routes/histories, links to relivant sites (SABRE, CBRD etc), would be better than using this as some sort of centre which it's title doesn't suggest it should be? I know railways are much more detailed and have a better following but in comparison surely we can do better than this as our centrepiece? --Achmelvic 02:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I've been toying with the idea of having a History of Motorways in the United Kingdom page or something similar.   There is already some information on motorways about the UK network.  There is also bits on Interchange (road) and of course special road.  I suspose if you wanted to do it you could plan it along these lines:


 * Roads in the United Kingdom - which would carry general information, management, maintenance, ownership and any differences between the constituent countries.
 * Motorways in the United Kingdom - this would be an expanded List of motorways in the United Kingdom discussing the aims, purposes, management etc of the motorways
 * History of Motorways in the United Kingdom - this would talk about the background to the construction of UK motorways, original plans, unbuilt routes, the role of anti road protests. We already have excellent web resources at CBRD, Pathetic Motorways and various other sources
 * Road transport legislation in the United Kingdom which could incorporate special road - this would summarise the legal basis of UK roads, toll roads
 * Road signs in the United Kingdom - this is an already exisiting and IMHO superb page.
 * Road classifications in the United Kingdom which could incorporate Great Britain road numbering scheme, a similar article on Northern Ireland. It could also bring in Trunk road in the UK and primary status


 * There are two further articles at Speed_limit and National speed limit which I am not sure we could do with...


 * Admittedly I have proposed a serious rewrite and rearrangement of the UK roads articles. I am also surprised that Northern Ireland material appears under Roads in Ireland and not in a seperate article - if anything I would have thought it should be in a UK article.  However I am also aware of the background to a lot of articles there which can cause problems.


 * Just my thoughts but I would be interested in other opinions...Regan123 23:12, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

fictitional roads
this article makes no sense?

First digit numbering contradiction
This article states, "The first digit in the number of any road should be the number of the furthest-anticlockwise zone entered by that road. "

Yet the article Anomalously numbered roads in Great Britain says, "The first digit of a road's number should be the number of the zone it occupies."

Can anyone with more knowledge of the subject clear this issue up and correct any offending article? Thanks! --Heycos 23:55, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Roads can (and frequently do) cross zone boundaries. The numbering is either
 * The furthest anticlockwise zone entered.
 * The furthest anticlockwise zone of either of the ends of the roads.
 * I'm not so sure which of the above it is - in the vast majority of cases it's the same, but there are roads which cross the same zone boundary more than once.Richard B 12:34, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

road number icons
I'm drafting a page for the A660, using the "UK road routebox", but getting a red link instead of an image for the road number. Is there a way to generate/request the appropriate image, or what? PamD 22:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I have created quite a few as have some others. I'm not around much these days as real life is proving more enjoyable than the battles on WP.  Can you let me know the roads you need and if they are primary and/or non primary, I will see what I can do. --Regan123 23:11, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm only planning on A660 (my local main road), but when I browsed various of the blue links from A roads in Zone 6 of the Great Britain numbering scheme I found several infoboxes with red links instead of images. I don't know whether there's a way to get a list of those, short of clicking every blue linked road... perhaps check against a list of exisitng images?  PamD 06:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it is a case of checking each article I'm afraid. Regan123 09:58, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I've now created A660 road so would be delighted if (A) you could create an icon for the A660, a primary route. Other A6nn roads which currently have infoboxes with red links are (B) A666, A685, A690, plus A683 is linked from one of those.  Also there's a page with infobox for A6055.   There are other roads which have pages without infoboxes, possibly because there isn't an icon: (C) A605, 607, 612, 614, 625, 628, 630, 631, 635, 636, 638, 642, 647, 686, 6030, 6079.  I haven't looked in other regions, just the ones on the A6 region template.  So if you're willing to create any more icons, the (A,B,C) in this sentence indicate apparent priority bands for the A6 area.  (But basically, I'd just be very grateful if you could make one for my A660!).


 * As an alternative: could someone create a mark2 version of the infobox template which makes the icon an option, so that people can produce a respectable-looking infobox even if an icon isn't available? Red links spoil the look of the page. Thanks.  PamD 14:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I've updated the A660 one for you. Do you need any others?  I have found the links more reliable when I add them to red links as opposed to loading them on the off chance they will be used. Cheers, Regan123 10:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Sorry, wasn't monitoring this page so hadn't seen this.  That's great.  PamD 09:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * And in reply to "Do you need any others?": there are infoboxes with redlinks in the articles for A640, A696, A6055. The first of those has redlinks in its infobox for intersecting roads A671, A664, A663, A672, A6052, A643.  That's all the redlinks I can find in the "6" set of roads. Thanks, PamD (talk) 16:42, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * And further: I've trawled through the pages which are linked from the zone 1 template, and the redlinked images are: A 1261, A139, A1049, A1086, A179, A1174, A1034, A1300, A1303. PamD (talk) 17:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * OK will try and do these. Can you try and let me know if they are primary or non primary. I have opened a page here Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Roads/roadsigns for requests. Regan123 (talk) 17:57, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Can you recommend a resource to check primary/non? Or do I just need to check a road atlas for them all? Thanks for adding the template info to the project page, it will help future new or one-off creators of road articles (assuming they find their way to the project page).  PamD (talk) 15:06, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Just look at the map. If a road is any location a primary route then I create primary sign. Regan123 (talk) 03:04, 24 November 2007 (UTC)