Talk:Great St Bernard Hospice

Kegs around the dogs' necks
As to the Saint-Bernard brandy-keg legend, after investigating further, I believe that it may not be a legend. Please see references below. Of course the fact that a young artist put a keg around a dog's neck in a painting does not disprove that real dogs might have carried containers with brandy ("phial" in the anecdote quoted implies something much smaller than a keg). The fact that liquor does not make you warmer also does not disprove the legend, as it was believed till quite recently that liquor did help against the cold. The older source indicates that at least one dog carried a phial of liquor, but there's no evidence that Barry was an exception. I don't think you can just dismiss an older story. I can't find any reference to the keg's being a myth that is earlier than the mid-1900s.

I was inspired to do a bit of research online to find out more.

The French Wikipedia article on the dogs says:

The well-known keg that appears in illustrations and in the collective imagination has been viewed, first as a local Swiss practice; then denounced, toward the end of the 20th century, as an unfounded legend based on 19th-century illustrations from Val d'Anniviers in Valais [Switzerland] called far-fetched. But thanks to the work of Swiss museums (e.g. the Museum of the Val d'Anniviers, Barryland Musée et chiens du Saint-Bernard, the Berne Museum of Natural History, etc.), eyewitness accounts and above all the objects that have been collected have tended to confirm the reality of this practice. One of the explanations that has made people believe that the Saint-Bernard's keg was a legend comes from the confusion between people carried off and buried under avalanches, and the rescue of people lost in the mountains.

In the first case [i.e. avalanches] there is as yet no credible evidence that rescue dogs carried this equipment. Indeed, search and rescue of people buried [in avalanches] was carried out only by teams of rescuers. The materiel was was carried by people, horses, or donkeys. The brandy used if necessary was part of the equipment they carried.

In the second case [i.e. lost travelers], in Switzerland a dog was often used (e.g. Saint Bernards but also other breeds) equipped with a keg. With its keen sense of smell, its speed and agility, could find a lost traveler itself without help. This tactic was used even more at night when searches by people had to be stopped until the morning.

''L'imaginaire populaire les affuble d'un tonnelet de schnaps accroché au cou qui serait destiné à revigorer les victimes du froid. Cette pratique a été utilisée surtout à la fin du xixe siècle dans la recherche de personnes perdues dans les montagnes ou victimes d'une avalanche.''

''Le fameux tonnelet figurant dans les illustrations et présent dans l'imaginaire collectif a successivement été présenté comme une pratique locale en Suisse puis dénoncé vers la fin du xxe siècle comme étant une légende sans fondement issue d'illustrations du xixe siècle qualifiées de farfelues du Val d'Anniviers, Valais. Mais grâce aux travaux de musées suisses (ex : Musée du Val d'Anniviers, Barryland - Musée et chiens du Saint-Bernard, Musée d'histoire naturelle de Berne, etc), les témoignages et surtout les objets recueillis ont tendance à confirmer la réalité de cette pratique. Une des explications qui a fait croire que le tonnelet du saint Bernard était une légende provient de la confusion entre le sauvetage des personnes emportées et enterrées dans les avalanches et le sauvetage de personnes égarées en montagne.''

''Dans le premier cas on ne trouve pour l'instant aucune preuve crédible que les chiens de sauvetage étaient affublé de cet équipement. En effet les recherches et le dégagement des personnes ensevelies ne se faisait qu'avec une équipe de secouristes de montagne. Le matériel était transporté à dos d'homme ou à l'aide de chevaux et d'ânes. L'eau de vie utilisée si besoin faisait partie de l'équipement emporté.

Dans le second cas on utilisait fréquemment ( à partir du xviiie siècle selon certaines sources) en Suisse un chien (ex : saint-bernard mais aussi d'autres races) équipé du tonnelet. L'animal grâce à son odorat, sa rapidité et son agilité pouvait retrouver de lui-même et de façon autonome un promeneur égaré. Cette tactique était d'autant plus utilisée de nuit lorsque les recherches faites par les hommes devaient obligatoirement être stoppées avant de reprendre le lendemain.''

There is a picture of Barry at the Bern Museum of Natural History here. It says Barry was only the first among equals, not that he was the only one to carry a keg.

There is also a painting from 1820 called Dogs of Saint-Gothard that shows a Saint-Bernard dog with a keg around its neck.

The German Wikipedia article de:Bernhardiner on the dogs says:

Many of the mythical stories about the dog are easy to find, but have been retold and written so often that it is hard to separate truth from legend. This includes that famous keg of schnaps that the dogs carry around their necks in many paintings, apparently to give avalanche victims a sip to warm them up. The legend seems to come from a letter written by one of Napoleon's soldiers as he traveled past Saint Bernard [hospice]. The overwhelmed monks had started using the dogs as transport animals to bring help to the exhausted soldiers. In the letter it says, "We are astonished that there are huge dogs in this monastery, that can scent the travelers who are lost in the snow. They sit up, offer their brandy, which they carry tied around their necks, and lead them back to the house." The story was passed on by word of mouth and has been used in various films. Whether it is true is still very controversial. Some of the little flasks that remain show that they were only for decoration, as they have no opening. Moreover, the keg would be a hindrance to dogs looking for people buried in deep snow—quite apart from the fact that drinking alcohol is counterproductive to people who are freezing.

''Viele der mythischen Geschichten um den Hund sind denn auch frei erfunden, wurden aber so oft weitererzählt und umgeschrieben, dass es schwierig ist, Wahrheit von Legende zu trennen. Dazu zählt auch das berühmte Schnapsfässchen, das die Hunde auf vielen Abbildungen um den Hals tragen, angeblich um den Lawinenopfern daraus einen Schluck zur Aufwärmung zu geben. Die Legende entstammt vermutlich einem Brief, den einer der Soldaten Napoleons beim Zug über den St. Bernhard schrieb. Die völlig überforderten Chorherren hatten die Hunde als Transporttiere eingesetzt, um den erschöpften Soldaten Verpflegung zu bringen. In diesem Brief stand: «Wir staunen darüber, dass es in diesem Kloster sehr große Hunde gibt, die Reisende aufspüren, die im Schnee verloren gingen. Sie richten sie auf, bieten ihnen Branntwein dar, den sie um den Hals gebunden mitführen, und führen sie ins Haus.» Die Geschichte wurde mündlich weitererzählt und in verschiedenen Filmen als Motiv aufgenommen, ihr Wahrheitsgehalt ist jedoch höchst umstritten. Einige der erhalten gebliebenen Fässchen zeigen, dass es sich wohl nur um ein Schmuckstück handelte, denn diese Fässer haben keine Öffnung. Dazu wäre das Fass für die Hunde bei der Suche nach Verschütteten im tiefen Schnee sehr hinderlich – ganz abgesehen von der Tatsache, dass der Konsum von Alkohol bei Unterkühlung kontraproduktiv ist.''

In the German-language brochure about Barry at the Barry Museum at the Hospice, a monk from the monastery is quoted as having said, in 1956, that the story with the keg is a legend and that the dogs never carried them. But it also says that the legend arose in the late 19th century, while the anecdote cited by the book is from the 1820s, as is the painting of the dogs of Saint Gothard. Was the story just invented by travelers? Maybe.

I found an account of the monks and their dogs from 1787, translated from French, in The Gentleman's Magazine, vol. 61, p. 244, in which the rescues are described but also the danger of alcohol to frozen travelers. The original author, Horace Benedict de Saussure, who wrote Voyages dans les Alpes (Geneva, 1786) had been to the hospice himself in the winter.

In conclusion, I'd say the brandy-keg/phial story is not proven or disproven but that on the whole it looks like a myth. Evangeline (talk) 01:53, 18 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Well researched and a valuable annex to the main article. Buistr (talk) 05:08, 18 April 2018 (UTC)