Talk:Great White Hope

Untitled
I added a reference to Eminem. 86.134.199.92 20:21, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

I removed this text pending some attribution of who uses the term in this way (books, authors, etc.), or an article that this might usefully link to: * A relatively minor use of the term exists. It refers to a refuge of the last survivors of the white race, in an Eurabia-style future scenario where the immigration, higher fertility rates and warfare of the non-white populations from the Middle East and Africa have decimated the white populations of Europe/North America. This term could be inferred to mean inhospitable territory such as central Russia, or Northern Canada, where the white survivors would hope that the environmental conditions would prevent the Middle Eastern / African infiltration from taking hold. --70.94.40.34 18:54, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Sources for individual people?
I'm not sure about the norms for references on a set index. I notice that this page cites several dictionaries for the etymology of the nickname, but no sources verifying that the people or characters listed have been called by the nickname. I suppose that could be done at the linked pages (as it would be for a disambiguation page), but only Larry Bird and the various boxers contain the phrase (Great) White Hope. The other biographies don't seem to include the phrase "white hope" at all. (The article on boxer Conor McGregor also lacks the phrase.)

I am concerned about this because (a) I'm a pain-in-the-ass stickler for proper sourcing, and more importantly (b) I worry that there could be BLP concerns if, for example, the nickname was applied as an insult or is otherwise controversial. Cnilep (talk) 08:28, 7 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Revert to DAB this doesn't really look like a set index to me; the criteria for inclusion in a set indes should be narrow, for example "ships named HMS Ark Royal" (actual ships, not fictional ones). Criteria for inclusion here seems to be "anyone, fictional or non-fictional, to whom someone somewhere once referred as the great white hope". If this is to be a set index article, we need a better set of criteria for inclusion, and references need to be cited, although some leeway could be given if there is an article and it mentions prominently, preferably cited, that they were called "great white hope". Personally I think this is a failed cause, probably the better idea is to revert to a DAB and copyedit as such, then split the dross off into an article such as List of non-fictional and fictional people who have been referred to as a great white hope and let everyone put their vanity entries there. MegaSloth (talk) 09:02, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Great White Hope (disambiguation) exists. Perhaps this should be merged there (or, I suppose, actually vice-versa). Cnilep (talk) 05:36, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Per MegaSloth's suggestion, I have restored the page to its previous status as a disambiguation. The dross can be collected from page history if anyone is interested in creating a list page. Cnilep (talk) 07:16, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Why is this a Disambiguation page?
This is a common phrase in the English language that has been applied to dozens or hundreds of people in the last hundred years. I tried to give the origin of the term along with sources, but my edit was reverted because it's a DAB page. Where would be the right place to discuss the origin of the term? This article doesn't even contain Jack Johnson's name, which seems like a HUGE oversight. RoidingOldMan (talk) 16:20, 14 November 2023 (UTC)


 * A disambiguation page is not a dictionary page per WP:DABDICT. There's already similar content about etymology on Wiktionary, i.e. wikt:great white hope, which is also linked at the top of this Wikipedia page. Thus, you may add further content there. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 06:16, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not trying to discuss the meaning of the words as much as I'm trying to give context and history. It appeared proptly after a specific fight. There was an initial crop of "white hopes" in the 1910's. They even held 3 different "White Hope" Tournaments in 1911 in New York. And then it's been applied regularly to other people sometimes in different sports. Surely that history does not belong on an etymology page? RoidingOldMan (talk) 20:00, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
 * No, this page is surely not an etymology page. As I stated above, please add these content to the "Etymology" section of great white hope. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 12:27, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I guess I don't understand. This is a saying. This is a phrase. Why is 23 skidoo entirely about the origin of the phrase? RoidingOldMan (talk) 06:33, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * 23 skidoo (phrase) is an article (and a rather fully developed one at that). Great White Hope is a disambiguation page like 23 skidoo. Adding a few sentences to a disambiguation page doesn't magically transform it into an article. If you really think there is enough material for an article, you can create one at Draft:Great White Hope (phrase) and if it is accepted, you can request to move the current disambiguation page to Great White Hope (disambiguation) and the new article to Great White Hope. older ≠ wiser 12:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you that's helpful I'll do that when I have the motivation.
 * RoidingOldMan (talk) 07:52, 23 December 2023 (UTC)