Talk:Greater Tokyo Area/Archive 1

More info
Shouldn't there be more information on the characteristics of the GTA?--BlueSunRed 06:09, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * What sorts of information would you like to see? Fg2 07:08, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

Some definitions of the Greater Tokyo Area now include the southern portion of Ibaraki Prefecture (up to Tsukuba City)

Cities not within any cities?
What does the header Other Cities not within any cities mean?

Definition
関東地方/Kantou-region is 一都六県/いっとろっけん/ittorokken, one To and six Prefectures; Tokyo, Kanagawa, Chiba, Saitama, Ibaraki, Tochigi, and Gunnma.

首都圏/Shutoken is 一都六県 plus 山梨/やまなし/Yamanashi prefecture.

--Oda Mari 05:44, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

On Shuto-ken I made explanation on National_Capital_Region_(Japan). See also ja:首都圏

What is the Greater Tokyo Area article explaining about? 関東地方？　首都圏？　南関東？　They are different. Please clear the point of the article. --Oda Mari 06:51, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Could you read the article more carefully, Mari? Although I have not written that passage. This article is themed about the urban sprawl around Tokyo, which is best referred to as the GTA or "Tokyo (Toshi) Ken" as the Bureau of Statistics. The GTA is either the "Tokyo + three" or 50 - 70 km radius circle centred at Shinjuku. Other names are aliases whose definitions are different by person. Soredewa 11:57, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I think I read it carefully. What puzzles me is that the map shows only 南関東, yet the contents are written about some area where it seems like to be 首都圏. And where is the word 東京圏 coming from? I don't use the word and I looked up 5 国語辞典 but did not found the word. Looking at the jp.wiki, I learned this English article is a roughly translated excerpt from the Japanese 南関東 article. Unfortunately I don't think the original article is a good one.--Oda Mari 15:21, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

The main focus of the article as written is the statistical area known as 京浜葉大都市圏. Strictly speaking, it is not identical to Tokyo+Chiba+Kanagawa+Saitama. --Polaron | Talk 15:58, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

What is 京浜葉大都市圏? I Know 京浜工業地帯　but I've never heard the word. It's not common or familiar to almost all Japanese. I think the word really exists but it is not a word people use in their daily life. I'm sorry but I don't have time to spare right now. I'll learn about it and write you again. --Oda Mari 16:40, 22 May 2007 (UTC) I'm back. Yes, I found it in the Statics Bureau's page. I think the word is only used by them. Not a general word and a general conception at all. Maybe it's better to redirect(?) to the similar article.--Oda Mari 19:10, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry that I could offended you, Mari. I am not familiar with 京浜葉大都市圏 either. But I think the Statistics Bureau is worth some respect because it takes data on people's movements and argue upon them and have large influence on academic and political discussions. I assume 京浜葉大都市圏 is very close to the English-speaking people's perception of the GTA and Japanese-speaking people's Shuto-ken or Tokyo-ken. At the next release of 2005 census-related papers it would be 京浜さ葉大都市圏 because of Saitama city. Soredewa 08:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

You don't have to be sorry. I didn't feel offended at all. I just wrote my questions. That's all. And now I understand the importance of the article. Thank you Soredewa and Polaron.--Oda Mari 09:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I think South Kanto is a physical or administrative and solid concept the GTA is a demographic or economic and liquid concept. I do not feel Chōshi and Tateyama are within the GTA (of course there are strong commercial and tourism links but few commuters.) Probably it will be clearer to establish separate entries for the GTA and South Kanto and discuss their relationships. Soredewa 06:16, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * We can always put the various definitions in the article since all of them are variations on the concept of "Greater Tokyo". --Polaron | Talk 12:50, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I lived in Japan for two years. No one there calls it "Tokyo-ken." Indeed, it's not a "ken," it's a "to." The correct designation of the Tokyo metropolitan area is "Tokyo-to." This is analogous to Hokkaido, which is also not a "ken" (prefecture), but a "do." Hokkaido is actually "Hokkai-do"; a "do" named "Hokkai," as Tokyo is a "to" named "Tokyo." NOT a "Ken."Bluerondo (talk) 03:34, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Bluerondo, and thanks for the comment. I hope I can clarify it a little. First, you're exactly right about Tokyo being named "to," and not a "ken." But there's more to it. The broader area that includes Tokyo and some surrounding prefectures is called a "ken," using a kanji that's different from the one for prefectures. Two expressions using this particular kanji for ken are shuto-ken and Tokyo-ken. The first, shuto-ken, I see in newspapers and on radio and television. The writing is 首都圏. You can see how the last kanji is different from 県. The term is analogous to the English word "district" in "capital district." I don't see the second expression, "Tokyo-ken," as often, but it is seen, and it uses the third kanji in shuto-ken. A Google search will turn up lots of uses in native writing. It means about the same thing as shuto-ken, a region encompassing Tokyo-to and some nearby prefectures. So the meaning is different from Tokyo-to, and it's one of the terms that could be translated as "Greater Tokyo Area." That's why it's discussed in full in this article, rather than in Tokyo. I hope this helps. Please let us know if you have more questions. Best regards, Fg2 (talk) 04:56, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

The Tokyo area is not all urban
I'm trying to determine a good way to convey that the Greater Tokyo Area is not all urban sprawl. Rather it is cities of all sizes separated by what is often rural landscapes. A good aerial photo of a rural farmland with Tokyo off in the distance would be one way. I added a panoramic that party achieves that effect but an additional photo would be good too. Bryan MacKinnon (talk) 09:05, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * There are loads of photos on Commons. Check it out! Fg2 (talk) 09:14, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It is more the concept I was fielding here than the photo itself. Though I've not found a suitable photo in the commons yet but that is a secondary concern.  Bryan MacKinnon (talk) 13:26, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

The three infobox photos at the top all show central Tokyo while the article is much broader in scope. I propose going with central Tokyo, Yokohama (from an earlier version), and an photo of suburban Tokyo. I don't want to start an edit war if someone has a different vision. Bryan MacKinnon (talk) 09:52, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hello Bryan, You might get a broader spectrum of opinion by raising this issue at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan. Chances are, a few people keep watch on Greater Tokyo Area, while more watch and participate in the project page. Fg2 (talk) 10:05, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Opinions sought
Folks, I'm looking for some opinions here. Per my note above under "Tokyo is not all urban", I'm trying to convey visually that Tokyo is not all urban but really a mixed bag and thought that the panoramic is one way to do that. All the other photos on the page are very urban which if fine but is not the whole story. Before anyone removes the photo, I'd like to solicit if anyone else has a view on this. I'm also open to any other photo that conveys the same. Thanks Bryan MacKinnon (talk) 12:53, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * My main issue with the image was that it seemed out of place (images don't typically precede the opening paragraph) and lacked obvious encyclopedic value without any explanatory text. I now see that it had a hidden caption. I've fixed this (by adding "thumb") so that it appears without the need for a mouseover and placed the photo in a more appropriate part of the article. Cheers, mgiganteus1 (talk) 14:22, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Maps
Probably it is obvious, but I just cannot figure out what the meaning of the dark-blue areas in some of the maps in "Various definitions of Tokyo/Kantō" is. Is it explained somewhere? bamse (talk) 11:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Which is most common. Neither cited
This article claims, without any citation, in two different parts that two different definitions are "most common". In the intro the "National Capital Region" is claimed to be the "most common" and in the chart "One Metropolis, Three Prefectures" is claimed to be most common. We should not contradict ourselves in that way. We need to find a citation and remove the other or remove both.--Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 04:00, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Contradictory population
This article lists a population of 42,607,376 while Greater Tokyo Area, which includes all of Kantō region plus another prefecture, just lists 37,883,000 inhabitants. The part can't contain more inhabitants that the whole. Something should be checked and fixed, or at least it should be explained better.--Pere prlpz (talk) 11:01, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Greater Tokyo Area. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130531000745/http://www.ukmediacentre.pwc.com/imagelibrary/downloadMedia.ashx?MediaDetailsID=1562 to https://www.ukmediacentre.pwc.com/imagelibrary/downloadMedia.ashx?MediaDetailsID=1562

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:15, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Greater Tokyo Area. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070210012525/http://www.stat.go.jp/data/kokusei/2000/final/zuhyou/092.xls to http://www.stat.go.jp/data/kokusei/2000/final/zuhyou/092.xls
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101220043131/http://www.esri.cao.go.jp/jp/sna/kenmin/h19/main.html to http://www.esri.cao.go.jp/jp/sna/kenmin/h19/main.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111108043249/http://www.metro.tokyo.jp/ENGLISH/PROFILE/overview02.htm to http://www.metro.tokyo.jp/ENGLISH/PROFILE/overview02.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070202012748/http://www.urban.e.u-tokyo.ac.jp/UEA/index_e.htm to http://www.urban.e.u-tokyo.ac.jp/UEA/index_e.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 06:00, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

City vs urban population in the infobox?
Hi!

The infobox mentions the population as follows:

Population (2016/17 only for total population)[2] • City 38,140,000 • Urban 38,050,000

The definitions section explains neither of the two.

That minor <1% difference seems like its either due to some obscure detail in what's included, or a "duplicate" quote of two very similar estimates from different sources. Without an explanation this arguably doesn't offer any more information to the average reader as just either one on its own.

Furthermore that distinction isn't present in the infobox of similar pages such as on the NY met area hence I assume it's not included in the template.

As this is in the infobox please consider removing one to improve conciseness.

If the distinction is worth keeping somewhere in the article it should be explained somewhere.

Thanks in advance!

PS: Sorry if this isn't the right place to put this, I'm a bit confused about how the talk pages work (and where the discussion pages from the past went). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.204.154.253 (talk) 13:19, 23 December 2020 (UTC)