Talk:Greeble

Greebled greeble
There was some prose greebling in the article; I've removed it. Namely:


 * For some definitions in relation to Greeble, Protrusions are Panels, and Nurnies are Widgets.

&#8227; &#5339;&#5505;  [ &#5200; ] 02:16, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Missing image (greeble_city.gif)
Whoever added that image may want to upload it again, as it seems to have vanished. I just commented out the tag to clean up the page a tiny bit. —Rassilon 20:37, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Merging Greeble and Nurnie?
I've read both articles, and I can't find any difference between the two (except their names). How about if we merge the two and mention both names? Peter S. 23:27, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Definitely sounds to me like they are the same thing. I agree that they should be merged. Mobius131186 18:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Support - They're virtually identical. Maybe include a small section on terminology, but there's no discernible difference. Unless I'm not looking at all the nurnie detail... Grahamdubya 00:49, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The term "nurnie" refers to something very different than "greeble" in Special Effects. A nurnies is a rolled or damaged piece of latex rubber used to simulate guts viens or skin texture. This term is used professionally at many special effects shops in the Los Angeles area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.113.128.44 (talk) 16:47, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Greebles in visual processing and face recognition
Greebles in Gauthier's paper is totally different from the main picture. I think this greeble and that greeble is totally different, so we might upload another picture for Gauthier's greebles, OR we might create an article for Gauthier's greebles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Janviermichelle (talk • contribs).
 * I agree, I've added a Split tag. Unless someone knows of a reason they should remain together (was one inspired by the other? or just same name arrived at independently?), then they should/can be split. --Quiddity 06:01, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Origin of the word "nurnies"
Though the article gives credit to Ron Thornton for coining the term "nurnies", the term existed before that. In the movie Short Circuit 2, the sentient robot Johnny 5 is enlisted to help assemble miniature toy versions of himself. While giving a demonstration of his assembly capabilities, he utters the line "don't forget the nurnies!"

It is possible that this doesn't refer to quite the same thing, but being that he is assembling toys with basic capabilities (such as rolling/track motion an limb movements) it is likely that they would have added superficial detail parts whose sole purpose is to enhance their visual appeal - the nurnies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.95.227.78 (talk) 17:13, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree - We made short films in high school (1980). We were told the term came from Star Wars, but it appears they used Greebles as their term.

This page says the term was used by other shops, but not ILM: http://agraphafx.com/vfx-archaeology-part-4-nernies-and-greeblies/ 107.77.206.159 (talk) 21:12, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

At the 1982 Daytona Beach Science Fiction Association Convention (Galacticon 1982) in Daytona Beach, Florida, we built a replica of an "ALIEN" movie's corridor as our main entrance-way into the convention. We called to task our Association members to provide scrap items including foam packing, PVC piping, interesting cardboard packaging items, etc. so that we could build it. The entire team called them "nernies" or "nurnies", though we all understood that it was an already established name defined for "any ordinary object that could be re-purposed into appearing as a science-fiction-like item". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evonleue (talk • contribs) 22:04, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Computer game reference
A game for Mac computers is called Greebles, it's similar to Pacman in style. Is it worth a mention? 123.208.126.203 (talk) 06:50, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Only if it is connected (citation required!) to the topic already here. Otherwise, it would need its own article, before we could add a page-top hatnote, to disambiguate the two separate topics.
 * (From a search, it looks like someone already tried to write one, but it was deleted per Articles for deletion/Greeble (game)). -- Quiddity (talk) 19:00, 29 March 2010 (UTC)


 * how peculiar. the deleted article references a "Newly released minor iPhone game". I was playing greebles on Mac in the mid 90s. Have to agree that it's not worth its own article unless more information is found though. 58.171.100.12 (talk) 10:10, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Edited for clarity
I edited out some redundant and meaningless statements from the first paragraph, such as They serve no real purpose and cause the flow of the eye over the surface of the object to be interrupted (i suppose you have to puncture the eye first, to have it flow like that?), etc. Please verify. 91.189.74.35 (talk) 10:24, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Plural vs singular forms
Throughout the article there is an inconsistency of use of plural and singular forms of both 'greeble/greebles' and 'nurnie/nurnies'. If both forms are correct and refer to the same thing, this should be mentioned in the beginning of the article. If not - it should be described how the singular is different from the plural. 91.189.74.35 (talk) 10:24, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

The original word is "greeblie"
The original word is "greeblie", not "greeble". It is known as "greeblie" by people at ILM and by most people in the movie-prop and model-building world. The origin is much older than ILM, and used to be used as a placeholder name for indeterminate tiny things on a surface, mostly unpleasant ones - mostly bugs and mites, breadcrumbs, pilling on clothing etc. There are many uses in publications and media where the word is used to denote tiny insects. The word "greeble" is at most about 15 years old, and stems probably from misreading the word specifically when used for movie props.

I'll move and edit the page when I have found good references. There may be a book about ILM that talks about how they started using the word. Until then here are some references that are not so good:


 * Urban Dictionary
 * Sesame Street - Ten little Greeblies!

Johan Hanson (talk) 02:22, 18 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Strangely enough, by not providing an IPA pronunciation, it seems like more and more self-taught model-builders have started learning the incorrect way of saying this word, since they've only read it on forums and in articles like this (though, plenty of people also spell the word phonetically as "greebly" and "greeblies"). As I understand it, the word has always been spelled "greeble" and pronounced "gree blee" (/ˈɡriːbliː/). The best reference I can find is this clip from the Tested Youtube channel, where Adam Savage (an ILM vet) and Norman Chan discuss the process of building a replica of Han Solo's blaster. At the very least, it would be nice to see a note that greebles are almost always referred to in the plural (with an IPA key for pronunciation).
 * PeterJ3D (talk) 06:27, 1 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Here are a few other examples of the word "greeble" being spoken aloud:
 * Star Trek Medical Tricorder prop (Both the singular and plural versions of the word are spoken)
 * Tested Y-Wing model interview (Norman Chan and professional model-maker, Steve Neisen, discuss greeblies and kit-bashing)
 * PeterJ3D (talk) 21:45, 2 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, here's an even better source:
 * Adam Savage's One Day Builds: Kit-Bashing and Scratch-Building! (Adam Savage explains both the pronunciation and origin of the word)
 * PeterJ3D (talk) 22:35, 8 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Not to beat a dead horse, but here's yet another video reference for pronunciation of the word "Greeblies":
 * VFX Artists React to Bad & Great CGi 62 (ft. ADAM SAVAGE)
 * PeterJ3D (talk) 03:18, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Citation for plastic soldier in Star Wars Executor model
http://starsandsabers.tumblr.com/post/20602994933/star-wars-fact-20-a-plastic-soldier-is-among — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.135.89.138 (talk) 15:19, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Nice article. Now where shall we add "Azteking"?
New article ore here? If at all?--Tobias &#34;ToMar&#34; Maier (talk) 11:07, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Uncited material in need of citations
I am moving the following uncited material here until it can be properly supported with inline citations of reliable, secondary sources, per WP:V, WP:CS, WP:IRS, WP:PSTS, WP:BLP, WP:NOR, et al. This diff shows where it was in the article. Nightscream (talk) 16:50, 8 February 2022 (UTC)


 * With that, you've basically completely changed the focus of the article, but especially of the introduction, from general greebling also done in movie CGI and props and video games, to mostly greebling done in tabletop modelling. The resulting article flows poorly, makes barely any sense, and frankly, reads like ass. 77.20.148.121 (talk) 06:04, 15 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Talk about missing the point.


 * It doesn't matter what you think the "focus" of the article looks like now. Wikipedia's core policies must be adhered to, and they weren't. Are you suggesting we should allow uncited material to fill an article simply because of what the focus of the article appears to be if we adhere to policy?


 * You don't like the way the article looks now? Then fix it! Quit whining, roll up your sleeves, and do the necessary work in finding reliable, secondary sources, and citing them for the material you wish to restore to the article. Nightscream (talk) 18:14, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

LEAD SECTION
...is a prominent detailing added to the surface of a larger object that makes it appear more complex, and therefore more visually interesting. It usually gives the audience an impression of increased scale. The detail can be made from simple geometric primitives (such as cylinders, cubes, and rectangles), or more complex shapes, such as pieces of machinery (cables, tanks, sprockets). Greebles are often present on models or drawings of fictional spacecraft or architectural constructs in science fiction and are used in the movie industry (special effects).

Etymology
The earliest recorded use of the term "greeble" found to date was by those working at Industrial Light & Magic for the special effects of Star Wars. They also described this design method as "guts on the outside".

In fictional spacecraft
Due to the inherently fantastical process of designing a fictional spacecraft, the use of greebles has become something of a staple in the visual design of countless science fiction properties, where they serve as an easy method of adding perceived depth and technological complexity, often by emulating the exposed instruments and other technical elements seen on many real-life spacecraft. One of the earliest applications of the concept can be seen in the visual production of 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) where they were used by in the designs of spaceships to fill blank spaces with random, seemingly technical details.

In fictional spacecraft
In such physical models, greebles could be anything from parts of raw plastic cut into various shapes, to eclectic parts of shop-bought model kits—the latter being a common kitbashing technique. For instance, in Star Wars the original Imperial Star Destroyer was constructed from a plywood frame and adorned with sheet styrene. Panel lines were cut into the styrene, but the ship looked too bare. Hundreds of model kits were purchased, which the model department cut apart and attached, along with more sheet styrene, to the ship's surfaces, with these large areas of ancillary details serving to make the ship more believable for the audience. The greebles themselves served only to fill space and had no specific in-universe functions in the ship's design, although later many of them would be given a specific function by fans or technical illustrators for fan guides. A plastic soldier was part of the greebling on the Executor. Star Wars modelers utilized many kits of WWII submarines, whose pipes, cranks and knobs worked well for the exteriors of starships and weapons. When the crew was done they had several submarine hulls left over, some of which were used in the creation of the EF76 Nebulon-B Medical Frigate seen at the end of The Empire Strikes Back. George Lucas said the ship reminded him of an outboard motor.

Another example of greeble application was the Battlestar Galactica model for the original 1970s series, whose hull had pieces from a wide assortment of kits, including Apollo orbiters, Saturn rocket boosters, F-16 fighter jets, and various tanks.

Given its origins, greebling is most often associated with the type of large city-like spaceships made popular in Star Wars, but has been generalized to refer to any dense covering by different (usually mechanical) components. Similarly, Borg starships (and drones) in Star Trek are heavily greebled using leftover sprues from previous kitbashing and photoetched bits.

Other uses
During production of the first Star Wars movie, Tunisian Customs enquired about a part of C-3PO's costume listed as "assorted greebles". The producers allegedly described it as "something that looks cool but doesn't actually do anything."

Automated greebling
In 3D computer graphics, software can be used to create greeble patterns, making it unnecessary to manually create large assortments of precise custom geometry. This is a process well suited to automatic, software-based procedural generation, particularly if a great degree of control is unnecessary or the greebles are small on-screen. Most greeble-generating software works by subdividing the surface to be greebled into regions, adding some detail to each new surface, then recursively continuing this process on each new surface to some specified level of detail. Similar algorithms are used in the creation of fractal surfaces.

As someone said above, this page should indeed be "greebly", not "greeble".
"Greeble" is apparently mostly a misunderstanding/mispronunciation, according to what I've read. While it may be in use at this point, it's not the original/correct term, and we should really be documenting the true history of the word here.

According to a 14-year ILM employee:

The rest of the thread, among others like it, is informative. For instance, that same post indicates that "nurnies" may also be spelled "nernies", at least by some industry people.

Also noteworthy, "greeble" can apparently be used, but as the verb form, i.e. to greeble something is to add greeblies to it, e.g. "Hey Adam, have you greebled that ship yet?" Felice Enellen (talk) 06:15, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Also, I should add, I'm intending to change these things myself unless someone can come up with a good counter-argument for why we should be documenting misinformation. I'll retain "greeble" as an alternate spelling of "greebly" but the main word will be "greebly". Felice Enellen (talk) 06:32, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You can change the things yourself, but please keep in mind that internet forums are not admissible references in Wikipedia.- Altenmann >talk 21:59, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm aware. I offered the forum comments here because, even though they may not rise the the height of an archival reference, they're still compelling enough to show that the page seems to be currently written with an insufficient understanding, if not an outright misunderstanding, of the term's actual history. It seems to me that we should be starting with "greebly" and waiting for references that indicate otherwise, rather than starting with "greeble", which has been claimed inexplicably to be pronounced like "greebly", and doing likewise, which doesn't make sense to me. Felice Enellen (talk) 23:14, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Luckily, I've found (and added) a reasonable ref for "greebly". - Altenmann >talk 23:53, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Well, as Google ngram shows], the usage of "greeble" vastly dominates "greebly" - Altenmann >talk 03:14, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Possibly of use: Adam Savage's ILM Modelshop Greeblie!
 * edit, didn't notice there was already a different video of him saying the same thing. (Hohum @ ) 17:03, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Google ngrams only show how much something is used, they don't show whether or not it's correct. For all we know it's the result of this page spreading misinformation to newbie model makers. Can you limit the time range on an ngram search to before this page existed? Felice Enellen (talk) 01:28, 10 July 2024 (UTC)