Talk:Greek Football Cup

Titles by city section
Shouldn't be Athens separate from Piraeus;They are two different cities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eagle of Pontus (talk • contribs) 21:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

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Greek Cup winners and finalists
The column listing the "Runner-up" is redundant. There is already a column listing "Finals" (in how many finals did the team appear) and "Wins" (how many times the team won the Cup). The times it did not win the Cup, the team came second, i.e. a runner-up. A useless statistic. -The Gnome (talk) 08:54, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Please don't damage the article!!!
Someone has added a lot more Cups to AEK. Please somebody correct that! AEK have won 14 trophies and next to that about 19 years appear as winning seasons for them! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.177.202.243 (talk) 15:46, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

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Statistics on performance by club section
There is an ongoing edit war on this section. It is all about 1961-62 Greek Football Cup season, where the final between Olympiacos and Panathinaikos was abandoned in overtime. The participation of both teams in the 1962 final is mentioned on the notes section. User:Kyopa insists on adding both teams as runner-ups. In my opinion, this action leads to a statistical error. We can't have two runner-ups for one cup season. When a sports competition is not concluded, there can be no winner, nor runner-up. It is abandoned, cancelled. I also made a suggestion to add Final Apps on the table, but this would be a little confusing as 1964 and 1966 finals were not held. I would like to see other editors' opinion on this. Thank you Abudabanas (talk) 19:55, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Dear Abudabanas. You say: In my opinion ... We can't have two runner-ups for one cup season ... I also made a suggestion to add Final Apps on the table, but this would be a little confusing as 1964 and 1966 finals were not held!
 * So you count two finals (1964,1966) that did not take place and you do not count the one that took place (1962), because he was not given a cup? If you take university exams and you do not succeed, what will you say? No tests were performed! I'm sorry. I can't agree with you.--Kyopa (talk) 20:43, 7 December 2020 (UTC)


 * My point of view is for article to stay as it was, but because you are so persistent i suggested that we could add a Final Apps category on the table. As i already wrote on your talk page, if we do that, we will have to deal with 3 particular Cup seasons. In 1962, two teams participated in a final that was abandoned. I would add 1 Final App for each team, but not as runners-ups (game started, teams appeared on the pitch, match abandonded in overtime so we can't have winner/runner-up). In 1964, final was not held (2nd semi-final abandoned) and Cup was awarded to AEK (0 Final Apps, Winner AEK, No Runner-up). In 1966, final was not held because Olympiacos decided not to play against AEK (0 Final Apps, Winner AEK, Runner-up Olympiacos). This is my personal opinion if we add a Final Apps category and because i think that all this could be a little confusing for some readers, i believe that the article must stay as it was. 1962 Cup season was eventually abandoned and there can be no runner-ups. I know that you disagree, maybe i am the one who is mistaken here, let's see what other editors think on the subject. Abudabanas (talk) 22:40, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

,, hi guys! As long as I researched the 3 finals I ended up in this conclusion:


 * 1961-62: The final was eventually abandoned and even though it did occur in the first place, since the HFF didn't consider the blame for any of the clubs (so it can award the game to its opponent), neither did set a replay match or even considered the score of the match (before the fan invasion) as the final score (I'm not 100% sure about that), the match is like it never took place, so there is obviously no winner and conclusively, no runner-up, just 2 clubs that qualified for the final that "never happened". (No winner and no runner-up(s))


 * 1963-64: Correctly, since only one club did qualify for the final with no opponent at all, it was proclaimed the winner without a match nor a runner-up. (Winner and no runner-up)


 * 1965-66: Also correct. Since the final did not occur due to the one finalist did not show up for the game, so it is awarded without a match to the other finalist, thus proclaiming the first as the runner-up and the latter as the winner. (Winner and runner-up)

Even though we discuss our opinions and exchange our points of view, we must not forget that this is an encyclopedia and whatever our beliefs are a reliable source outranks them all. So we can make a final desicion about the article here and now, but if any user brings a reliable source to the table we must side with him whatever our views are. I hope I covered you all! Best of wishes! BEN 917 10:40, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

BEN 917 In your opinion, then we should also delete this entry, after the final was finally abandoned. You do not say that? --Kyopa (talk) 17:20, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

, no I did not say any of that. On the contrary, we should keep the article as an information fact for anyone interested on why the 1962 Greek Cup was never completed (historicaly speaking), but statisticaly it has no use. I have litteraly created 5 Panhellenic Championship seasons' articles where the championship's final phase never took place and if you visit the talk page of those articles, I specifically state what was the purpose of creating them. BEN 917 19:59, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , I cannot find any evidence of the participating teams being awarded the runners-up honour. I have gone through sources for both the English and the Greek wiki, and I can't find any mention of any runners-up being declared. As far as I can tell, the match was removed from the record in terms of winner and loser. Meaning that nither club came away with anything, be that first or second place. REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 13:42, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year. A key element is that Olympiacos played in next year's cup winners' cup. This means that he was recognized as a finalist. --Kyopa (talk) 12:03, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Happy New Year to you too . Greece still had a space in the Cup Winners Cup to fill, So one of them still needed to be entered. Handily, Panathinaikos won the domestic title and so gained entry to the European Cup. Making Olympiacos the logical team to enter the Cup Winners Cup as Panathinaikos were already in a European cup competition, and probably wouldn't have welcomed extra fixture congestion. While Olympiacos had finished as runners-up in the league and weren't in and such competition. REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 13:14, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

, Panathinaikos was the champion. Olympiacos is one of the two finalists and that is why it went to the cup winners' cup. Otherwise someone else could play, such as AEK or PAOK.--Kyopa (talk) 15:49, 7 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Exactly. If Olympiacos had won the league then Panathinaikos would have entered the Cup Winners Cup. REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 17:47, 7 January 2021 (UTC)


 * This source of the football federation solves everything . He says: We have 2 finalists, but we don't have a winner.

"* Επεισοδιακός αγώνας, που λόγω των πολλών διακοπών και καθυστερήσεων κράτησε παραπάνω από ό,τι είχε αρχικά προβλεφθεί κι έτσι... νύχτωσε, µε αποτέλεσµα ο διαιτητής να τον διακόψει. ∆εν ορίστηκε επαναληπτικός κι έτσι το 1961-62 έχουµε τελικό κυπέλλου, αλλά δεν υπάρχει... Κυπελλούχος"

--Kyopa (talk) 08:33, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

, finalist and runner-up are not the same thing. Finalist: a competitor or team in the final or finals of a competition. Runner-up:a competitor or team taking second place in a contest. We have two finalists, but we don't have two winners or two runner-ups. Abudabanas (talk) 13:19, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
 * You have tired me. Pick up your puppets before the barriers begin.--Kyopa (talk) 21:32, 11 January 2021 (UTC)


 * , can we take this to WT:FOOTY before it gets out of hand and people start getting blocked? REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 14:16, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

, user  is a verified puppet with multiple accounts. I don't mind this as much as the fact that he ignores the sources and tries to pass on his personal views. I'm not in the mood to talk to a wall.--Kyopa (talk) 15:01, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I have noticed the IP edits recently and I strongly advise Abudabanas to stop it, as it will not do anyone any good. I have suggested WT:FOOTY as it would mean that we have multiple unbiased people giving their opinions instead of two people with conflicting ones. REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 15:55, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

, maybe you should see this .--Kyopa (talk) 17:13, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

, two years ago i made some edits on 2017–18 Super League Greece that caused an edit war. Being a PAOK fan i felt that someone should write down exactly what happened. I totally made a mistake and mainly presented PAOK pov (that the league title was stolen). I was accused of using multiple accounts (totally deny that, you can check on the archives to see exactly what happened, i have no problem at all) because other users (i believe PAOK fans who felt the same as me) defended passionately my edits. I was banned for 3 days, i have since then learned my lesson, i started reading Wikipedia Terms of Use and i never made a single edit on that article again. This is an encyclopedia and not a fans forum. As for the current situation, I have done everything that needs to be done when an edit war occurs and editors disagree on something. Wrote on Kyopa's Talk page, made a suggestion to solve this on Greek Football Cup Talk page, called other users who have made hundreds of edits on Greek Football to write down their opinion, proposed to add a Final Apps category on the statistics table. As you can see from the edit history of the article and Talk page, there are 3-4 users that have the same opinion with me on the matter while Kyopa is on his own. He simply has a different opinion and i totally respect that. I stopped reverting (unlike he does) and never provoked him. Of course, i never used multiple accounts, i totally deny that once again. I agree with your suggestion on taking this to WT:FOOTY and i am not surprised that he is not in the mood to see what other users think on the subject. Thank you for helping on this as you clearly are a more experienced user. Best regards! Abudabanas (talk) 17:52, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

According to user, i am someone who ignores the sources. He also showed an interest on my edit history. I love football statistics and retro football games and that is why i expanded almost every Greek Football Cup season (for most seasons quarter-finals and semi-finals were the only rounds mentioned). Since we are checking edit histories, Kyopa who always relies on sources made this edit for example. Last season, the Greek Superleague calendar had 36 matchdays (26 regular and 10 play-offs) and Olympiacos after a 33-game unbeaten run lost. Kyopa added Olympiacos unbeaten run to List of unbeaten football club seasons. I assume that he is an Olympiacos fan and he also wants his team to be credited the runners-up honour for 1961-62 Greek Football Cup season. You won't find any source that indicates this. BEN917 who has made a lot of edits on Greek Football also agrees with me and REDMAN 2019 also couldn't find any evidence of the participating teams being awarded the runners-up honour. 1961-62 Greek Football Cup season was eventually abandoned and Olympiacos and Panathinaikos were the two finalists who participated in a final that was stopped in overtime and the Greek Federation never ordered a replay. I have no problem to ask for a third opinion or go to Wiki Project Football. I was the one who called other users to write down their opinion, i stopped reverting and tried to solve this without provoking anyone. Thank you all, i am also tired of all this (as Kyopa said and i understand that, i also informed him when i stopped reverting) and hope for a solution. Happy New Year to everyone. Done. Abudabanas (talk) 10:10, 13 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I've started a discussion at WT:FOOTY and pinged both of you. (and BEN917) REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 12:16, 13 January 2021 (UTC)


 * This is broadly the same as the 1909 Scottish Cup Final (actually quite similar with the supporters suspecting a fixed draw). Neither team is a winner, neither is a runner-up, Panathinaikos can't claim it as part of a double, and luckily for the FA they were already in the European Cup so it was logical for Olympiacos to get the CWC place even without the final resolved. As with the Scottish Cup, the two clubs are not exactly short of honours so they don't need to desparately claim it as an appearance in a final, and of course can't claim it as a win. For the Scottish player articles, I have been adding 1909 as 'finalist' in their personal honours section if they took part. As for the article on the 1961–62 Greek Cup, I don't see why there should be any suggestion of deleting it: the event still took place, it just didn't have the same outcome as normal. And in this main article there's already a note explaining the 1962 events so my personal opinion is that it shouldn't be listed as a runner-up for either team. I'd amend the display so that the note is attached to the runners-up total. Crowsus (talk) 13:14, 13 January 2021 (UTC)


 * God bless you. Perfection. Abudabanas (talk) 14:45, 13 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Good job Crowsus, but wrong. Like the players (you said it), the teams must be credited with participating in the final.--Kyopa (talk) 17:20, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
 * They are credited, both the main Greek Cup article and the List of finals notes their participation, and I'm quite sure already did before this stuff began. Crediting both as runners-up is factually incorrect - and unless you can find a source crediting them as such, it's also WP:OR to state that they are considered as runners-up. Crowsus (talk) 17:25, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Good luck Crowsus. He once again reverted on the main article and i don't think that he is ever gonna stop reverting everyone. I 'm done. Abudabanas (talk) 18:18, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , Unless you can produce a reliable source that states that both teams were awarded runners-up honours, then please stop reverting. REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 11:35, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * This is one of the best articles i found on the internet on 1961-62 Greek Cup final (author=Kostas Pallis, work=oldfootball.gr) Intro translation (on bold): Following the events of 1962 Greek Cup Final, a General Secretariat of Sports' decision ended permanently the Cup competition of that season and one of their first announcements of measures was that Olympiacos vs Panathinaikos games are forbidden. Last paragraph (bold, left): The penalty decided by the Sports Council was to issue an official rebuke at the Hellenic Football Federation (HFF / ΕΠΟ), to forbidden the replay of the match and a 2-week deadline on the Federation to punish everyone responsible for the rioting, otherwise the financial support of the Federation would be banned and their members would be led to the Sports Fan Committee.   According to this source, not only were the two teams granted the runners-up honour, but the Greek Sports Council ordered the Federation to punish everyone responsible for what happened. Thought maybe this could help. Abudabanas (talk) 22:41, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * This means Abudabanas, that both teams lost the final. It was their punishment. So I was absolutely right.--Kyopa (talk) 07:13, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Man, i honestly believe that you could become a politician.Abudabanas (talk) 09:20, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * My friend, your help was crucial. Although we had different views, however, you strengthened mine. It is what they say: "when you dig another's hole, you fall into it yourself".--Kyopa (talk) 09:31, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Just because the match replay was banned doesn't mean that they are both runners-up. It means the match didn't finish. No winner, no runner-up, no nothing. REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 18:19, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I also second Abudabanas's view about the politician, really I do. REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 18:20, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Here is another article, posted on in.gr (date 26 June 2020, Nikos Velonakis), a website owned by Olympiacos president Evangelos Marinakis. Third paragraph translation: The Red-Whites (Olympiacos) have 27 wins on 39 final attempts with a 69.2% winning percentage (note that the 1962 final against Panathinaikos that was abandoned and not replayed is not included). Abudabanas (talk) 10:01, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * This article was also re-posted on tanea.gr and tovima.gr  (webites of newspapers ΤΑ ΝΕΑ and ΤΟ ΒΗΜΑ, also owned by Olympiacos president Marinakis). Abudabanas (talk) 13:49, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I see the sources say:

"Για 41η φορά στην ιστορία του θα εμφανιστεί σε ραντεβού κούπας (επί συνόλου 78 διοργανώσεων), ενώ η ΑΕΚ από την άλλη είναι συνεπής για 26η σεζόν (και 5η διαδοχική).

Οι Ερυθρόλευκοι έχουν να επιδείξουν 27 κατακτήσεις στις προηγούμενες 39 προσπάθειες στέψης, οπότε το ποσοστό επιτυχίας τους ανέρχεται στο 69,2% (σημειωτέον δεν συνυπολογίζεται ο τελικός του 1962 με τον Παναθηναϊκό που διεκόπη και δεν επαναλήφθηκε)."

"For the 41st time in its history, it will appear in a cup appointment (out of a total of 78 events), while AEK on the other hand is consistent for the 26th season (and 5th consecutive).

The Red and Whites have to show 27 conquests in the previous 39 crowning attempts, so their success rate amounts to 69.2% (it should be noted that the 1962 final with Panathinaikos was not interrupted and was not repeated)"


 * These 41 participations in the final do not come out with 28 conquests and 12 runner's up. One is missing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyopa (talk • contribs) 19:46, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Even Olympiacos president Marinakis' media does not count the 1962 Final as winner/ runner-up. That is why one is missing my friend. Abudabanas (talk) 20:32, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Now nothing is missing bro.--Kyopa (talk) 20:41, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Write here on Talk page that you want to add Final Apps counting the 1964 and 1966 Finals that were not held. If you get approval, go on. Abudabanas (talk) 20:48, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Because the teams qualified for the final.--Kyopa (talk) 21:03, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I am happy with Kyopa's insertion of an Appearances column which counts the 1962 final as a solution to that issue. However this total should have one less for Olympiacos and two less for AEK for the unplayed finals of 64 and 66 (while keeping the winner and runner-up lists as they are). Hopefully this can be accommodated without another edit war over the technicalities? I see Abudabanas already suggested that before so hopefully they are in agreement, then it is down to you to also agree Kyopa...? Crowsus (talk) 21:16, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Of course he will not agree. He will count a Final app for Olympiacos and AEK, even if the 1966 final was not held. We would have solved this months ago, but Kyopa here wants 2 runners-ups for 1962 or that the 1966 final will count as final app for Olympiacos-AEK. This is simply endless. Abudabanas (talk) 21:28, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I can not make any discussion when an administrator threatens to block me because I have a different opinion. I think I tried to compromise but Abudabanas works as if he owns the article. You all support him and I am alone. So what should I discuss? I think the problem is this: Wrong terms are used. The one who wins the cup is called the winner and the one who loses is the finalist. When two teams qualify for the final, they are automatically considered finalists, regardless of whether the final is interrupted, postponed or canceled. In our case we have 2 finalists and no winner.--Kyopa (talk) 06:27, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Another proposition. Two extra columns, one Finals reached and one Finals played. Winners and runners-up stay as they are.


 * Olympiacos: Finals reached 41 (1962 included), Finals played 40 (not the 1966), W/RUP 28-12


 * Panathinaikos: Finals reached 29 (1962 included), Finals played 29, W/RUP 18-10


 * AEK: Finals reached 26, Finals played 24 (not the 1964, 1966), W/RUP 15-11

If you don't agree with that, then this is gonna be simply endless. Abudabanas (talk) 09:50, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * And I have to note that I find adding two extra columns unnecessary as the notes on the current edit by Crowsus explain everything and the table would become larger without reason at all. But let's see... Do you agree with the two extra columns? (if you agree, and all the other users consent, i suggest that Crowsus makes the edit) Abudabanas (talk) 10:09, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * and if you don't then a block will be needed I think. REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 10:38, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Nice. I agree to do what Abutabanas proposes with the two columns. It sounds good, but let's look at it in practice. However, it is not democratic to speak to me arrogantly and threaten me because I just have a different opinion. I do not vandalize or curse anyone.--Kyopa (talk) 11:50, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * You are the definition of edit warring / vandalism. No cursing? You have called me enemy, vandal, puppet etc. I am the one here who spoke to you arrogantly, whatever man...And please, sounds good, but let's look at this in practice...Do you agree with the two extra columns exactly as I wrote it down for the three teams? YES or NO? Abudabanas (talk) 12:00, 20 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I said I agree. And do not shout. I am neither your son nor your slave. Of course I told you puppet because you are. And a vandal too. But here you have friends and I do not. That is the difference.--Kyopa (talk) 12:19, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * People wouldn't be backing him up if he wasn't right. Surely you can see that? REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 12:26, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Of course you are not my son or slave Kyopa. However, after your statement that you were finally manipulated by me and agreed with something I proposed, then perhaps that makes you my puppet. Or not? I don't know. I am confused after months of talking. And for finding out which one of us has democratic virtues and which one is a vandal, I am calling for an open democratic vote. Over the next month, registered users who are interested on Greek Football Cup page will vote if:


 * A) The article stays as it is, with the last edit made by Crowsus
 * B) We add two extra columns on the table (Finals reached and Finals played)

Rules: 1) No edits over the next month, 2) IPs and new users' votes won't count, 3) we can't call other IPs/users to vote (checked from our edit histories) and 4) votes from my other friends/puppets GiantSnowman, REDMAN, Crowsus, Nehme, BEN917 who will probably obey the Master of Puppets Abudabanas won't count also. Fair enough my democratic friend? Abudabanas (talk) 16:09, 20 January 2021 (UTC)


 * 💝Dear Abudabanas! I imagine you now standing in front of your mirror and smiling arrogantly. You will talk to him and say: I humiliated Kyopa! So listen human. I do not accept any of your terms nor will I accept your point of view. I will do what I think is right.--Kyopa (talk) 16:31, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I will tell you only this about how I am feeling in order to stop you from imagining things. It is not my point of view that you won't ever accept. It was also GiantSnowman's, REDMAN's, Crowsus', Nehme's and BEN917's who all had the same opinion on this. However, I believe that you simply don't care cause... did not ask for anyone's opinion because I believe that the opinion of many can not replace the opinion of one. That is also a very democratic statement. And to talk, try to reach consensus, argue, agree or disagree with a person with such beliefs is pointless. Be well Kyopa. Have a nice day, week, month, year. Honestly. Ciao Abudabanas (talk) 17:03, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

FINAL 1962

 * (Nea Filadelfia Stadium (AEK) 27/6/62)
 * Panathinaikos - Olympiakos 0-0
 * The game was abandoned during extra time (after 97 minutes) because in the stadium there was not floodlight installed. Another reason is that the spectators of both teams, suspicious that both teams wanted a replay (for financial reasons), had started riots and for many minutes there was no action to see (31-minute break). So the darkness set and the game was abandoned.
 * No replay was held, so for 1961/62 there was no cup awarded.


 * Panathinaikos : Voutsaras, Tzounakos, Linoxylakis, Kamaras, Pitychoudis, Andreou, Papaemmanouil, Domazos, Toum-

belis, Theofanis, Panakis.
 * Olympiakos : Tsanaktsis, Plessas, Simantiris, Polychroniou, Savvas Papazoglou, Th. Mbembis, Kostas Papazoglou,

Ch. Yfantis, Aristidis Papazoglou, Psychos.
 * RED-Cards : 5' Papaemmanouil & S. Papazoglou, 33' A. Papazoglou.
 * Ref : Möhler (SUI) .--Kyopa (talk) 06:59, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, none of that is in dispute. Nothing in the above text states both teams were given runners-up status or something similar ('awarded silver medals' etc), you seem to be trying to present the above and/or the RSSSF ref as evidence of both being runners-up when neither does so. And as I've said, I've been on the club websites, they only care about the cup wins, they don't list the finals they lost - or in this case, didn't win or lose - so I'm not sure why it matters so much to you. Crowsus (talk) 12:12, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Crowsus There are athletes and teams that have shared medals or titles. So why can't there be 2 finalists (meaning losers) in a final? By doing so, you eliminate the path to the final and the event itself. They went, they claimed a trophy and the federation did not give it to anyone. He ignored them, like a woman ignores 2 prospective lovers. So they both lost. It is a matter of principle for me to deal with the subject. Both interested (Abudabanas and BEN917) they are puppets and vandals. You will see it soon.--Kyopa (talk) 12:44, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * No, they didn't lose. The referee abandoned the match. You are the only one pushing for this two runners-up thing and refusing to accept there can be a different outcome, i.e both listed as finalists but neither winner or loser. Crowsus (talk) 22:47, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , I have made a minor change to the edit you made. Are you in agreement with what the page currently looks like? REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 11:32, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * . No. But I will accept it so that you do not send me back to the administrators. I will look for evidence to correct this misconception. I will never accept this nonsense. No final was abandoned. It was stopped and did not happen again because both teams were punished. So both are runners-up. They forced them to be.--Kyopa (talk) 16:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I just want this to end. As long as you're not going to keep on reverting then fine by me. REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 17:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Reasonable. I, in your position, would do the same, having imposed my point of view. As he imposed it here, writing that..  NB: includes Olympiakos' no-show in 1966 but not the abandoned final of 1962 
 * (C) Copyright Jotis Panagiotas and RSSSF 1999/2020
 * Great mind for sure. Of course, there are no such stupid conclusions here
 * (C) Copyright Alexander Mastrogiannopoulos and RSSSF 2003/04.
 * So someone Jotis Panagiotas came and decided not to count on this final!!! Nice🤦🏿‍♀️.--💫 Kyopa ▪ (talk) 19:11, 29 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Um, that's the same reference you tried to use to promote your viewpoint last week. It says there was no cup awarded. Nowhere does it say both clubs were declared runners-up!?! Are you hoping everyone is just so sick of this that they won't check? You'd be almost right, but i thought I'd have a look, only to find it was the same one above. You're just simply taking one statement and claiming it means something else, repeatedly. Crowsus (talk) 19:12, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

They do not say the same thing. Mastrogiannopoulos does not say anything because he does not need to say. Panagiotas says that he does not count on his final 62 because no one was given the cup. His own conclusion. I don't think anyone asked him ... In a few words. Who is Panagiotas to judge if someone is a runner-up or not?


 * See that
 * The Champions Teams and the Championships of all Categories
 * ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΟΣ: 65
 * Α' Ανδρών: 7 (1933, 1934, 1936, 1947, 1949, 1951, 1952)


 * Εθνική Κατηγορία Ανδρών: 2 (1969*, 1971)


 * Α1 Εθνική Ανδρών: 23 (1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019)
 * ΕΘΝΙΚΟΣ: 50
 * Α' Κατηγορία Ανδρών: 16 (1931, 1948, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966)


 * Εθνική Κατηγορία Ανδρών: 9 (1967, 1968. 1969*, 1970, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976)

(Note: Co-champion with Olympiakos)


 * You see, we have co-champions in Water polo. Why can't we have two runners-up in football?

And in football: ''Ethnikos was one of the founding unions of Ε.Π.Σ. Piraeus, in the championships of which he was the main protagonist. During the time he participated, he won three championships in Piraeus, in 1928, 1929 and 1939, while he almost permanently occupied the second place in the remaining seasons. In the Piraeus championship of 1929, Ethnikos was declared co-champion with Olympiakos. Also in the 1935 championship starring Ethnikos and Olympiakos, it was not completed because EPSP considered that there was no point in continuing, considering that both teams would reach the final phase of the South championship, unofficially declaring them co-champions again this time''.

I think you have to admit that I'm right. So the views on statistical paradoxes or errors are simply wrong. Wrong views that I paid unfairly without fault. If anyone has something to say, let them say it.--💫 Kyopa ▪ (talk) 06:00, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Pointless. Abudabanas (talk) 08:10, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

You created all this anomaly, for your own reasons. Your problem. In 24 hours the entry will be corrected.--💫 Kyopa ▪ (talk) 08:35, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

. "Indicative of his dominance in the organization in those years is that throughout the 50's he was absent only from one final (1955) and from one in the 60's (1967)!"
 * New elements: from here. "Olympiakos won the Greek Cup four times from 1951 to 1954 and five times from 1957 to 1961. The red and whites took part eight consecutive times in a final from 1956 to 1963. In 1964 the final did not take place. in 1965 he won the trophy again and in 1966 he was a finalist again, but did not go down to compete. In other words, it could expand the series"

All sources speak of the presence of Olympiacos in 8 consecutive finals (1956-1963). So that of 1962 is also calculated. No cup was awarded, so what name will we give to his participation? Finalist, runner-up, passer-by, sucker, tourist, what? And to finish. Whoever reaches a goal and for whatever reason does not conquer it is lost, runner-up, loser. The words end from me.--💫 Kyopa ▪ (talk) 20:43, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
 * "The words end from me". And yet you still continue to add unwanted and incorrect material to the article. If you want a block then just say so instead of all the trouble. REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 10:37, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I spoke and I proved. You who did nothing, better leave. Your threats do not frighten me.--💫 Kyopa ▪ (talk) 14:15, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * "Olympiacos in 8 consecutive finals" merely means that they were PRESENT. That doesn't mean that they WON. Padgriffin  Griffin Noises 14:27, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Padgriffin Brother. Infinity and stupidity have no limits, although I doubt infinity. I resign as stupidity is invincible.--💫 Kyopa ▪ (talk) 15:49, 3 February 2021 (UTC)