Talk:Greek chorus

Article title
I suggest that the title of the article be "greek tragic chorus", because the range of the topic of greek chorus is much larger, involves all greek poetry in different ways and is all the matter of lyric poetry from Hesiode to Callimaque. Besides, comedy involves as much as tragedy a chorus, and Aristophane the best defender of its privileges. The dyonisiac origin of the chorus is indeed a common place, but it do not resist this question "where and when Artemis do not gather her chorus?" that is 4 time quoted in greek litterature at various epochs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.123.50.57 (talk • contribs) 15:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * But "Greek chorus" is the more common term, whether it be more accurate or not. I think the article should stay as is. Juppiter 03:58, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Read what 82.123.50.57 wrote. This is not an argument about a common name, but regarding the precise title for this particular topic.  The user makes an important point worth considering.  The topic is quite broad and "Greek chorus" could mean one of many subtopics connected to Ancient Greek history, one of which concerns its use in tragic drama.  For the moment, the article should stay, but as it grows it may need to be split into subtopics. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 02:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I suggest that the title of this aricle be "Chorus of Ancient Greek Theatre." This, in my opinion, would be a precise title for the article. Tragic choruses and comedic choruses should be chapters within this article until the page becomes too large.ML Saturn (talk) 19:21, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Do all 15 chorus members speak simultaneously?
Forgive my ignorance, but I'd appreciate some guidance from the scholarly among you. It is unclear to me whether all 15 members of a chorus speak simultaneously? I'm reading a Ted Hughes translation of Oresteia, and the stage directions simply indicate "chorus." This has me imagining 15 old men uttering their lines at the same moment. Or is it understood that the various chorus members alternate their lines?

I would appreciate any light shed on the subject.

68.252.109.210 20:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)W.P. Norton

The chorus all speak together as one, apart from occasionally when the chorus leader speaks on his own.

"The poet" should not be referred to by the male pronoun. The author is speaking of poets in general not of Greek tragedians in particular. See MLA guidelines for gender neutral language. Mlle.LeRenard 13:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Language Choice / Gender neutral
"The poet" should not be referred to by the male pronoun. The author is speaking of poets in general not of Greek tragedians in particular. See MLA guidelines for gender neutral language. Mlle.LeRenard 13:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, that is part of a larger issue. That section is actually a copy of a much older article, as I have presented below.  --Scandalous 00:25, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Taken from an old article:
A good portion of this article is taken verbatim from a 1908 article, available here. Regardless of whether or not it's in public domain, the article itself is not encyclopedic, IMO. If anything, I think it's better suited for wikisources. I could be wrong. Scandalous 00:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I couldn't agree more. This article is hardly relevant to what we're going to eventually want on this page, nor does it hold up to any amount of modern scholarly rigor.rmagill 15:01, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Verifying older versions
''This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 70.21.53.250 (Talk) at 21:16, 28 December 2005. It may differ significantly from the current revision.''

In tragic plays of Ancient Greece, the chorus (choros) is believed to have grown out of the Greek dithyrambs and "tragikon drama". In early tragedy, all parts were played by a single actor; because the actor left the stage often to change roles, the chorus was especially dominant. It is thought to have numbered approximately 50 singing and dancing members (choreutai) circa 508. Tragedy came to be composed of episodes separated by choral odes. In these odes, the chorus would chant rhythmically, so they could be viewed as one entity rather than individuals.

Although Aeschylus reduced the chorus to 12 members, it remained critical to his productions. Under Aeschylus, the chorus played such key roles as the protagonist in The Suppliants, and the antagonist in The Eumenides. Sophocles increased the chorus to 15 members, although the choral odes became only tenuously related to the dramatic action. The Sophoclean chorus was divided into two sub-choruses of 6 (hemichoria) and a leader (koryphaios); the number of actors increased from two to three. The leader of the chorus interacted with the characters in the play, and spoke for the general population (the play's public opinion). This change favoured the interaction between actors and thus brought ancient greek tragedy closer to the modern notion of dramatic plot. The size of the tragic chorus continued to waver, settling for a time at 3 members.

The chorus usually communicated in song form, but sometimes the message was spoken. It was the author's job to choreograph the chorus. The chorus offered background and summary information to help the audience follow the performance, commented on main themes, and showed how an ideal audience might react to the drama as it was presented. They also represent the general populace of any particular story. In the second generation of Athenian tragedy the chorus often had a more substantial role in the narrative; in Euripedes's Bacchae, for example, the chorus, representing the frenzied female worshippers of Dionysus becomes a central character in itself.

''This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Vary (Talk | contribs) at 17:03, 7 March 2006. It may differ significantly from the current revision.''

In tragic plays of Ancient Greece, the chorus (choros) is believed to have grown out of the Greek dithyrambs and tragikon drama. The chorus offered background and summary information to help the audience follow the performance, commented on main themes, and showed how an ideal audience might react to the drama as it was presented. They also represent the general populace of any particular story. The chorus usually communicated in song form, but sometimes the message was spoken. It was the playwright's job to choreograph the chorus.

In early tragedy, all parts were played by a single actor; because the actor left the stage often to change roles, the chorus was especially dominant. It is thought to have numbered approximately 50 singing and dancing members (choreutai) circa 508. Tragedy came to be composed of episodes separated by choral odes. In these odes, the chorus would chant rhythmically, so they could be viewed as one entity rather than individuals. In the second generation of Athenian tragedy the chorus often had a more substantial role in the narrative; in Euripedes's Bacchae, for example, the chorus, representing the frenzied female worshippers of Dionysus becomes a central character in itself.

Although Aeschylus reduced the chorus to 12 members, it remained critical to his productions. Under Aeschylus, the chorus played such key roles as the protagonist in The Suppliants, and the antagonist in The Eumenides. Sophocles increased the chorus to 15 members, although the choral odes became only tenuously related to the dramatic action. The Sophoclean chorus was divided into two sub-choruses of 6 (hemichoria) and a leader (koryphaios); the number of actors increased from two to three. The leader of the chorus interacted with the characters in the play, and spoke for the general population (the play's public opinion). This change favoured the interaction between actors and thus brought ancient greek tragedy closer to the modern notion of dramatic plot. The size of the tragic chorus continued to waver, settling for a time at 3 members.

Use of the chorus can be seen not only in Ancient Greek tragedies, but also in more recent works such as Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet.

Greek chorus at Jamendo
Unfortunately, I think one couldn't add the link to the article, but I'll leave it here for those lucky enough to check this talk page.

If you want to have an idea about how it sounds, you may heard to a modern Greek chorus performance at Jamendo. It's a Creative Commons-licensed album. :) -- 200.234.64.54 (talk) 08:30, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Greek chorus in modern usage
Can we expand this section to include the many modern examples? Look at Ed and Larry in "The West Wing" who were introduced around season 4. There are many other examples. 65.29.107.128 (talk) 06:48, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't get it
I dont quite understand the difference between greek chorus and general minor actors and background actors ie. extras, because as it sounds to me (probably wrong - please help me understand) it is a topic that, if more widely understood, would be noticed enough to be merged into a wider article eg. Theatre of ancient Greece or simply Theatre   &#x262D;  &emsp; мдснєтє тдлкЅТЦФФ 04:19, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Greek Chorus numbers
The article states that the Chorus "consisted of fifty members which were later reduced to twelve by Sophocles, then increased to fifteen members by Euripides in tragedies" I can't access the source cited for this (as it is offline and I don't have access) however I have this source: [http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=b_03UUhHHhoC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=size+of+greek+tragic+chorus&ots=vOd4nOihd2&sig=543B_i0-_bgL0a-rpCPQPo2L0rs#v=onepage&q=twelve&f=false Norwood, Gilbert. 2009. Greek Tragedy] Which states that Sophocles 'raised the number of the chorus from twelve to fifteen' (p.15-16). Since I can't see the original cited source, and I also cannot find the ancient anonymous 'Life of Sophocles' I will leave this, however if someone can check these facts that would be great.

82.46.134.213 (talk) 18:06, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Ex: Star Trek
There was a Star Trek Next Generation episode with a Greek chorus. Someone should add a reference (and maybe a link, I bet the estate would approve use of a clip for educational/informational purposes). My principle reason for suggesting this is that, the current example would make the concept more accessible to youth and children.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Loud_As_A_Whisper_(episode)

Apparently there was one in Star Trek Voyager too, but I never saw that one.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Muse_(episode) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.103.247.23 (talk) 17:05, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Work on the article, 2013
I'll be working on filling in the missing pieces of this article. Yona M. Corn (talk) 04:34, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Yona, thanks for the edits you've made so far; they're not bad at all! I've tweaked the caption in the vase image that you added. It would be helpful if you could provide more information about the texts you're referencing – titles, page numbers, and ISBN's (where practical) would be good. See Help:Referencing for beginners for information about how to do that in Wikipedia's standard format ... or if you could provide this info, I'll format the refs. Keep in mind, however, that I know almost nothing about the subject of this article; it's only on my watchlist in case of vandalism. Graham 87 15:15, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Aha! I later noticed that you'd been working on the citations in your sandbox. I've therefore copied them over to the article, and used the citation expander to optimize them. Hope I didn't mess anything up in the process. Graham 87 15:39, 28 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Graham, please note that the students' professor has asked them to create a peer review page for each of the articles that they are working on. -- Ssilvers (talk) 01:27, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright; before noticing your message I wrote one about the peer review pages at Yona's talk page. Graham 87 01:43, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Some remaining issues

 * The Lead section should act as an introduction and overview of the article and should summarize very briefly, all of the major points made in the body of the article below. See WP:LEAD for more information.
 * Etymology - This should also refer to a standard Greek lexicon, probably Liddell and Scott.
 * Dramatic function - More citations are needed. If the material is from the same reference, the reference can be repeated.
 * The Stage Management section is also missing citations.
 * Wagner - The examples show that he made use of Greek drama, but can anyone explain more specifically how he used or paid homage to the Greek chorus? The Wagner material is also uncited.
 * The Rodgers and Hammerstein and Aristotle references are incomplete. Please add publisher and date information. -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:31, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Rethinking Revenge
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