Talk:Green Hill Zone/Archive 1

from VfD:

EDIT: And after looking around on Wikipedia, Look what I found! Mushroom Kingdom, That almost exsactly like the GHZ Article except Its Mario related and it doesn't even have a Pic or stub message in it. And guess what, Nobodys voting against that are they? Louisisthebest_007 18:59, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC) *Delete, or perhaps merg/redir. Levels of general video games are not encyclopedic. Having ANY fiction on WP is controversial (sp?)--having _unlimited_ fiction is clearly unfounded. Just because some other fiction has slipped thru the cracks is not a reason to let _all_ fiction slip thru the cracks. Niteowlneils 20:23, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep or at least merge - certainly an important experience for me growing up with the game aged 4 Barneyboo 15:39, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Article about a single level in a video game. I would support a merge without redirect though. No[[User_talk:norm|rm]] 22:49, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * it is a pretty significant game as such things go. It's linked from the "Sonic The Hedgehog" page. I see nothing objectionable about it beyond the triviality of its subject. My reaction on seeing it come up as a random page was to admire the comprehensiveness of Wikipedia. It made a welcome change from interminable details of terminally boring US villages keep Shoka 01:20, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I second that. Keep. Machinebuster
 * Delete. Wikipedia is not a game guide. --Improv 02:43, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. I wonder how many times Shoka hit the random page before coming across Green Hill Zone out of 364,000 articles.  -- WOT 03:13, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Quite a few. And keeping a rough count of what proportion of pages were "Local Guidebook" entries. By that count 30% plus of Wikipedia is a poor copy of the CIA world factsheet. Hell when this page stands out from most of the rest as "interesting" and then you notice its marked for deletion (the first I'd come across in my ramblings actually) ....   I've already voted Shoka
 * Delete. Wikipedia is not a game guide.  The Sonic the Hedgehog article is too long to justify merging this info, and it isn't notable enough to stand on its own as an article.  SWAdair | Talk  03:40, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep or Merge/redirect to Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis), its probably the first thing anyone who turned on a genesis for the first time saw. (: &mdash; siro  &chi;  o  05:15, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Certainly it needs to be expanded, with a bit more of an explanation as to why it is significant, but that's no reason to attribute a Britannica-like "upper limit" on Wikipedia. - Scooter 05:18, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete - the article consists of two sentences and a screenshot and probably can't be expanded by much more. -Sean Curtin 07:15, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Gaming fan-cruft. jni 11:07, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Let's just keep it here. It's at this location merely as a consequence of having a flat namespace. Kim Bruning 12:47, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, or merge/redirect. A single level of a game doesn't deserve it's own article space. If there are other precendents for the same, they should be brought here also, not used as an excuse for this article. We are shooting for a CD release, and it will hamper creditability (sp?) if the majority of articles document fiction. (PS I accept some level of fiction, as it attracts new uses [I believe I found WP lokking for LotR info], but there's gotta be a limit. Niteowlneils 14:43, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Location is irrelevant, wikipedia is not paper. Information is organised in a MySQL db, and it doesn't take (much) more space to have single levels in separate articles than it takes to have it all on a single page. Lots of people simply do not get this, and it's starting to affect the signal to noise ratio on VfD :-( Kim Bruning 15:52, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Tracked it down, limiting factor for wikipedia is bandwidth, not storage space. (Current storage: 915G, used: 255G, Available: 615G Use%:30% ). If anyone complains that that's not enough, I'll pay for the space. Sorry to beat on your comment specifically, btw. :-) Kim Bruning 16:17, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * What? The article doesn't even mention the current GHZ Act 1 completion time. Not that that's notable enough. Delete it. &#8212;Rory &#9786; 14:56, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Pages on video games, fine, but pages on individual levels of video games? Are we going to see Centipede: level 8 next ("The spider moves really fast at this stage, and the plethora of mushrooms make shooting the now very swift centipede extremely difficult, as it comes at you vertically..."). -R. fiend 18:05, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, I know I'm the Article Starter and would obviously protect it from being deleted but the topic is valid and shouldn't be deleted just for being a singular level of a game. It MAY just be a level but this level happens to be one of the most famous level in the Sonicgame series. Its not much at the moment but it has enough 'Potential infomation' be at least get out of being a Stub. I'm not saying that all computer game levels should get their own article but out of all the Sonic Games...Green Hill is one of the well-known of them all.
 * Keep "Wikipedia is not a game guide" is not a logical anwser. Theres many different definitions of things like this. Its like saying you should have one defintion for Computer, when theres many different companies, parts, groups, etc. So I beleve its justified. Also, there is something exactly like this for the Mario series for Mushroom Kingdom, and I see no one voting to remove it.-MTP623 15:49, 7 Oct 2004 (EST)
 * Hold your horses. Propose deletion for mushroom kingdom, and I'll vote deletion on it too. I like sonic and mario -- own them both, but I think we have way too much fancruft. --Improv 03:14, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Note to reviewer: This user has voted twice (see above) in this discussion &mdash; siro  &chi;  o  03:45, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. I don't see anything in the deletion policy to warrant deleting this. User:DragonGuyver 03:00 8 Oct 2004 (EST)
 * Redirect (but Delete is my second choice), good gravy, what's all this talk about server resources? Let someone else worry about that. Maybe it makes sense to talk about such things with images. However, just because we have the resources to have a bazillion substubs in the main article space doesn't mean we should do that (and with video games, it would be exceedingly easy to do so - a single game could easily spawn thousands of item, level, and character stubs, and with hundreds and hundreds of games released, it is easy to see that these things could subsume all other wikipedia content if given a chance). Readers are better served when the articles they read cover the topic in depth, not when the information they're after is spread out all over the place. Also, Mushroom Kingdom is more analagous to the planet Mobius (as it was called in the early days of the series and in the SatAM and at least one other show, and to which I would not object to an article on) than a single Sonic level. And the fact that we have "terminally boring US villages" articles does not mean that we should strive to create terminally boring articles on other subjects. Seriously, how can this be expanded? What more can we say? How will this ever be encyclopedic? - RedWordSmith 23:11, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. RustyCale 00:11, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Delete: We're not a game guide. We're not a game guide.  We're not a game guide.  We're not a game guide.  We're not a game guide.  Play the stinkin' games.  Don't write about them here. Geogre 03:41, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. I love Sonic, and this has always been the first sight as soon as you start the game. But this ain't notable enough for an article; why not just make separate articles on "Act 1," "Act 2" and "Act 3" of the level? However, the jury's out on Mushroom Kingdom - although the Mushroom Kingdom is a more encompassing locale for the entire Mario series, at present I can't think of a reason for it to be here. Ian Pugh 20:11, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Delete Pjacobi 16:50, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, or at the very least redirect and merge into Sonic the Hedgehog. I really can't see how this is encyclopaedic in its own right. Pnot 01:30, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Merge with Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis) and redirect. Not encyclopaedic on its own. Michael Warren | Talk 14:21, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Gazwim 14:31, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Mark Richards 17:25, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion

I'm again merging and redirecting this. I count votes as follows:


 * 8 keep only (discounting 1 anon, but counting 2 questionable votes)
 * 2 keep or redirect
 * 2 redirect
 * 3 delete or redirect
 * 11 delete (including me, but I will change my vote to delete or redirect if that will help with the consensus) One more should probably be added as the nominator, whose vote does not seem to have been transferred to this page.

All the info on this page is now at Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis), and since that page has the only valid link to here, there's no reason to keep this as a separate page. If anyone has a real problem with this mention it on my talk page before reverting. Assuming the delete votes would prefer a redirect to a keep, I think we have a pretty good consensus for this action. -R. fiend 19:41, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Oh okay, You can redirect it if you want. I didn't like the idea of GHZ losing its page but since I did a redirect from 'Sonic 1' to Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis) and all the infomation I did was kept...I'm happy with it ^_^ - Louisisthebest_007 21:56, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)