Talk:Green New Deal/Archive 2

edit extended-protected
I would like to add more information on the Green New Deal policy in South Korea. However, the page is extended confirmed protection, so I have no access to edit the page. I would like to request edits to this page. I am very new to wikipedia, so please help me out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suhrj (talk • contribs) 07:06, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You can suggest edits here on this talk page, just add "Please change X to Y", citing reliable sources. – Thjarkur (talk) 10:39, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Please add the paragraphs under 3.International >> 3.4 South Korea. (Add them under the previous content.)

On July 4th 2020, the Korean government announced the Korean New Deal. The Korean New Deal revolves around three pillars: the Digital New Deal, a measure to promote digital innovation throughout the country's economy, the Green New Deal, a measure to accelerate a transition towards environmental-friendly and low-carbon economy, and strengthened social safety nets, a measure to lay the groundwork for an inclusive society. The Korean New Deal is a the government's "declaration of its transition to becoming a leading country from a country that has trailed behind, from a carbon-dependent economy to a low-carbon economy, and from an unequal society to an inclusive society." The top 10 flagship projects chosen to bring changes and play pivotal roles in the early stage are Data Dam, artificial intelligence governments, smart medical infrastructure, green remodeling, green energy, eco-friendly future mobility, green smart school, digital twin, SOC digitalization, and smart green industrial complexes. [1]

The Green New Deal of the Korean New Deal is a plan that pursues a net-zero society and a plan to transform its economic foundation into a low-carbon and eco-friendly one. There are three projects in the Green New Deal. First, the government will carry out green renovation of cities, spaces, and public buildings by transforming public facilities into zero-energy buildings, to recover the green ecosystem of the territory, the ocean, and the cities, and to develop systems for better water management. The second project is to set up smart grids to efficiently manage energy and to expand low-carbon, distributed energy, to establish the foundation for renewable deployment, and to expand the distribution of green mobility such as electric vehicles and hydrogen vehicles. Lastly, the government will foster promising companies which will lead the green businesses and will develop low-carbon, green industrial complexes in order to establish an innovative ecosystem for the green industry. Also, the government will lay the groundwork for green innovation including R&D and finance.

The total spending on the Green New Deal by 2025 is targeted at 73.4 trillion won. It is expected to create 659,000 jobs. [2]

[1] Moon's Korean New Deal Targets 1.9 million new jobs, 2020, Korea JoonAng Daily https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2020/07/31/englishStudy/currentIssues/THINK-ENGLISH-0720-New-Deal/20200731103000345.html [2] 「The Korean Newe Deal」, 2020.7.14, ROK government, The Korean New Deal national reporting meeting — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suhrj (talk • contribs) 05:37, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: There is enough for a new article about the Korean New Deal that including it in this one would be distracting. This article is already overloaded and a split request exists. Once a Korean New Deal article is available, then linking it from the "South Korea" as a "see also" headnote would be appropriate.  Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:14, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. I see your point. However, many experts and interested parties in the country are frequently pointing out that information in this article has to be updated. The information there is data before the election, so there has to be a major update. I do not know who originally wrote the current post on South Korea, so I cannot simply ask you to delete it. If it was you User talk:Þjarkur or Eggishorn, I would like to ask you to delete the current content and replace it with the following. I've shortened my previous request. I hope it is short enough to make it not too distracting.

On July 4th 2020, the Korean government announced the Korean New Deal which revolves around three pillars: the Digital New Deal, the Green New Deal,, and strengthened social safety nets. It is the government's "declaration of its transition to becoming a leading country from a country that has trailed behind, from a carbon-dependent economy to a low-carbon economy, and from an unequal society to an inclusive society." [1] The total spending on the Green New Deal by 2025 is targeted at 73.4 trillion won. It is expected to create 659,000 jobs. [2]

The three major tasks involved in the Green New Deal are: ·green transition of infrastructure ·low-carbon and decentralized energy ·innovation in green industries

[1] Moon's Korean New Deal Targets 1.9 million new jobs, 2020, Korea JoonAng Daily https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2020/07/31/englishStudy/currentIssues/THINK-ENGLISH-0720-New-Deal/20200731103000345.html [2] 「The Korean Newe Deal」, 2020.7.14, ROK government, The Korean New Deal national reporting meeting


 * ❌ Eggishorn is correct. A new page would be better rather than adding even more stuff here. You could make it yourself if you want. GreenFrogsGoRibbit (talk) 12:50, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Inconsistent grammar in Supporters section
Fix grammar in supporters section for consistency. For example:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, US Representative from New York's 14th congressional district > Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, US Representative from New York's 14th congressional district.

Alcee Hastings, US Representative from Florida's 20th Congressional District. > Alcee Hastings, US Representative from Florida's 20th congressional district.

Rashida Tlaib, US Representative from Michigan's 13th congressional district. > [no change] Woodopal (talk) 17:14, 27 September 2020 (UTC)


 * ✅ Thanks for the heads, up Woodopal. Let us know if you find any more grammar stuff to fix. GreenFrogsGoRibbit (talk) 19:50, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Gerald Connolly is from VA district 11
Change the listed congressional district for representative Gerald Connolly from 10 to 11. He is the representative from the 11th district. Possiblysasha (talk) 02:22, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:43, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Democratic Leadership Council
I noticed that the "Democratic Leadership Council" is described as "conservative." This organization consistently takes liberal positions and is aligned with Democrats including Bill Clinton. They seem pretty clearly to be moderate left/liberal. I feel like the adjective "conservative" may be editorializing by a farther left viewpoint (since they are more centrist and less radical). Shouldn't the word "conservative" be removed or changed to be more accurate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.8.120.3 (talk) 18:11, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

This makes sense to me! I can't edit, perhaps some editor can make the change? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.129.2.49 (talk) 22:59, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Biden does not support the Green New Deal
During the presidential debate, Joe Biden clearly stated he does not support the Green New Deal. Yet he is listed as supporting it on this Wikipedia page, next to Al Gore. Biden be removed from the list of supporters of the Green New Deal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.250.152.208 (talk) 08:16, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * ❌ Biden's position is unclear. His campaign website indicates that he supports it while he also said that he does not . Suggestions? – Batreeq ( Talk ) (Contribs) 00:46, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * If there is ambiguity, shouldn't that be removed (or at least adding an asterisk) perhaps adding an "unclear support" heading? 73.129.2.49 (talk) 23:01, 12 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Biden has stated he opposes the Green New Deal. The same goes for Harris. Note these were positions that they took in order to advance in the primaries and abandoned once they were nominated. We would need a secondary source that said they supported these positions, rather than just said they did. TFD (talk) 01:12, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

How important was the Green Party, compared to other influences, on GND?
The Green New Deal proposal in front of Congress was inspired by many examples. UNEP, the Green Party, and many other groups have talked about something called a "Green New Deal."

Someone has changed the lead to claim that the Green New Deal was originated by Green Party and then adopted by Democrats. Of the 3 references cited for this claim in the lead, 2 do not even mention the Green Party and the third is an opinion piece from Counterpunch claiming credit based on citations from Green Party websites, hardly RS for such claims. A New Republic article later cited for the claim merely quotes Green Party members as making it. The New Republic does not endorse those claims in its own editorial voice.

The role of the Green Party in inspiring the current Green New Deal is worth exploring, but we should look for RS that are not published by the Green Party itself or by its strong supporters. To quote one such RS:"Jill Stein's 'Green New Deal' .. consists largely of assertions of the utopian ends it'll achieve, rather than realistic means for getting there."

Another reason to look for sources that are not devoted to boosting the Green Party: per WP:BALASPS, "An article should not give undue weight to minor aspects of its subject, but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight proportional to its treatment in the body of reliable, published material on the subject." HouseOfChange (talk) 02:20, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
 * May I recommend renaming this section of the talk page? Also, a wall of sources incoming from me btw. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 03:52, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Changed title of section as requested. HouseOfChange (talk) 04:06, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I appreciate that; thank you! Here are nine sources to support the position that the Green Party should be mentioned somewhere in the lead. Of these, the Intercept_ is the only one I do not find to be a WP:RS, but they seemed to have done a decent job here in terms of neutrality. As for the New Republic article, it was written by Emily Atkin who is a staff writer for outlet. According to her resume, she is an environmental culture and politics reporter. She's seems pretty legit to me, but that is up to interpretation I suppose. Anyway, here are the sources:
 * Jill Stein in 2016. Reports that the Green New Deal isn't that new. Gives credit to Green politicians for idea. Two more references for good measure.  I hope that helps! I am not even a member of the Green Party... &#8211;  MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 04:43, 18 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Upon a secondary review, I actually have more... but I think this will be good for now. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 04:46, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Greenalot (talk) 18:16, 24 November 2020 (UTC)Greenalot [re: the 'Green New Deal isn't that new', the global origins of the Green New Deal trace w documentation to 2007-2008 -- see citations in this article posted earlier to the Talk Page in 35. GND as an international idea]
 * The initial creative work and proposal for a Global Green New Deal came from the UK and the "Green New Deal Group". This UK origin-political history needs to be cited at the top of any GND wikipedia -- and the History should begin with the UK (not the US). Also note that the current wording 'Since the early 2000s.' is somewhat inaccurate as the initial public GND political origins i 2007-2008, see cites w the 'Green New Deal Group' (UK), whose work/writing was disseminated widely to other countries subsequently.


 * The Green New Deal has a clear provenance. Its origins, both as a political term and as a body of political thought, traces to 2007-08. The principal individuals who were originally involved can be reviewed at this site -- . I personally, as a US Green activist, recall many conversations during the global recession of 2008 where Greens discussed the response politics put forward by the UK "Green New Deal Group". The Green New Deal had multiple originators in multiple countries after 2008. It would not be appropriate, in tracing the origins/provenance and development of the Green New Deal to 'split off' a dedicated 'Green New Deal in the United States' page. Better would be to follow the chronology, and give weight to the origins and follow on of multiple countries, perhaps alphabetically, since there are many countries who have versions of the original UK Green New Deal Group's formal proposal (see their PDF )... Greenalot (talk) 00:17, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Just Transition
In 2018, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) released a Special Report, that overall, provides a serious warning that global greenhouse gas emissions must be reduced before reaching 1.5 degrees celsius. The impacts of that temperature are serious, and the report finds that by the end of the decade, if no action is taken, the consequences will be extreme and irreversible.

The introduction of the Green New Deal Resolution was also in response to the IPCC report, as the Green New Deal is a 10-year plan that can guide the United States toward a Just Transition to achieve net-zero greenhouse gas emissions and 100% renewable energy reliance.

The Just Transition principle is a component of Environmental Justice that recognizes the need to transition from fossil fuels to renewable sources. According to the Just Transition Alliance, a 501(c)3 founded in 1997 as a coalition of Environmental Justice and labor organizations, currently, many “workers, community residents, and Indigenous Peoples” are at the frontlines of either unsafe working conditions in the fossil fuel industry, and/or are bearing the undue burden and brunt of the environmental and human health impacts.

The Green New Deal states that a Just Transition includes the industry workers and communities, and is a guiding consideration in the nation-wide shift, “to create millions of good, high-wage jobs” in the leading renewable energy sector.

Centering the Most Vulnerable
At the brunt of the anthropogenic climate consequences, are some of the planet’s most vulnerable communities. Taking into consideration the complexity of a community’s functions, the inequality of climate impacts that certain populations face exists in, “...a broad array of multi-scalar and multi-temporal, social, political, economic and environmental…” factors. For example, many vulnerable communities are located in coastal or rural areas, and often have intentional, historical roots in areas that lack critical infrastructure, economic stability, and government action, and are thus not equipped with the resources to withstand or recover from the climate impacts that are compounded and exacerbated over time.

Black and Brown communities with the smallest ‘carbon footprint’, are the most vulnerable to climate change impacts. The Green New Deal Resolution is an Environmental Justice resolution just as much as it is an environmental economic proposal, because it recognizes this fact:

“Whereas climate change, pollution, and environmental destruction have exacerbated systemic racial, regional, social, environmental, and economic injustices (referred to in this preamble as ‘‘systemic injustices’’) by disproportionately affecting indigenous peoples, communities of color, migrant communities, deindustrialized communities, depopulated rural communities, the poor, low-income workers, women, the elderly, the unhoused, people with disabilities, and youth (referred to in this preamble as ‘‘frontline and vulnerable communities’’);”

The roots of Environmental Justice are consequently entangled within a multitude of Black, Brown, Indigenous, and other communities of color. These experiences and histories are dynamic and complex.

Black Environmental Justice
The budding roots of Environmental Justice within majority African American communities, can be traced through the work of Black scholars, historians, and authors like Dr. Dorceta Taylor, Dr. David Pellow, Dr. Carolyn Finney for example, who have dedicated their professions and livelihoods to unravelling and revealing the deep-seeded and historic case studies on some of the most notorious offenses to Black communities by neglectfully unregulated industries. These case studies include Warren County, North Carolina, and both Cancer Alley and Hurricane Katrina in Louisiana.

Environmental injustices stem from the egregious violations that fossil fuel industries commit in communities that lack basic resources righted by law. This lack of resources is not inherent, rather intentional, as Black scholars, historians, and authors suggest that federal, state, and local institutions, from the government to non-profits, fail to protect minority communities in the face of environmental injustices as well as natural disasters. What can be seen in the case studies, is the community’s fight to secure their own clean air and water, and to protect themselves from the disproportionate burden of toxic releases by organizing themselves.

Therefore, the Green New Deal Resolution is not only a momentous economic proposal, but it also provides an important consideration necessary for the plan to work, and that is by centering Environmental Justice communities.

MakaylamayBA (talk) 05:11, 8 February 2021 (UTC)Makayla Alicea MakaylamayBA (talk) 05:11, 8 February 2021 (UTC)


 * ❌ This is an excellent proposed edit in some respects, but it's a bit long and essay like. I'll write some advise on MakaylamayBA user talk page. PS - if anyone disagrees with declining this no worries, just revert this talk page post,  No objection if someone has time to put this on hold to try to refine it with MakaylamayBA, or even if they want to add the whole thing  to the main article as is. FeydHuxtable (talk) 18:44, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I was hoping someone would reply to this. I think you've got it just right--a tad too long and "essay like".  I knew it didn't sound exactly encyclopedic but other than too long I couldn't come up with exactly why.  Anyone that writes as well as this author should be well able to improve it.  Gandydancer (talk) 19:36, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Thankyou - hopefully they'll return with a shorter version. If not, I might add one myself. I've noticed this past couple of years that GND & other green activists have been emphasising enviromental justice much more than they used to, so it's quite an ommmisssion for us to hardly mention it. FeydHuxtable (talk) 12:05, 9 February 2021 (UTC)