Talk:Green vehicle

99.9% = Junk Science
Oh come on, find one example of dust to dust vehicular transport that has a carbon impact of only 0.1% of a normal car. Greg Locock (talk) 13:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Definition
"A green vehicle is a vehicle that is considered to be more "environmentally friendly" than traditional all-petroleum internal combustion engine vehicles (APICEVs). This is accomplished by having a low dust to dust energy cost."

I'm tempted to ask "says who?". That is a pretty agenda-filled sentence. Is a petrol powered car that gets 140 mpgus passenger less green than an electric car that creates the same CO2 per passenger mile? That sentence says it is. Greg Locock (talk) 21:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The same ?. Are you sure a plug-in flexifuel hybrid is more pollutant than a similar all fossil fuel vehicle ?. For sure it is not.--Mac (talk) 14:17, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


 * That is not my point. My point is that the dust to dust energy cost is not necessarily the arbiter of greenness. An EV running on coal may have a lower dust to dust energy content than a petrol car, yet have much higher total CO2 emissions, for example. Greg Locock (talk) 01:59, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I added new definition namely:

A green vehicle is a vehicle that emits (or emitted) less polluting substances than what was common with other contemporary vehicles of a same size/weight in the particular period it was used in. Presently, the term is used for any vehicle surpassing the Euro6-norm (eg LEV, ULEV, ...). Certain green vehicles may provide a way of sustainable transport.

The norms trough the last 20 years should be added to article (eg euro5-euro4, ...) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.245.184.236 (talk) 12:34, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * "A 'green vehicle' is a car that that creates less damage to the environment when compared to traditional cars that run solely on petrol." turn in your homework kids. (you know when an elementary school workbook has a definition that it's elementary) are you now going to argue trivia? pohick (talk) 23:04, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

old discussion
A petroleum car that uses biodiesel is more ecological than a gasoline or petrol car, but it ´s not a green car, because it cannot use a CO2-free energy. (Not true, net CO2 in the atmosphere remains the same on a seasonal time-scale as CO2 used with sunlight and water produce oils for biodiesel, and cellulose and sugars can be used to create bio-alcohols. These can be used to run normal internal combustion engines, or hybrids).

These ones that only uses renewable energy (a hydrogen or electric car) are more ecological green vehicles than an hybrid car). (Electric and Hydrogen are not renewable; they are only a means of storing energy, and that energy comes most economically from old coal plants that grandfather their way into existence, nuclear power, whose plants are old designs and not as safe as they future ones may be, or large-scale hydroelectric projects.)

bikes
what about bikes? Are not they the best green vehicles?--GengisKanhg (my talk) 22:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Battery Acid
I would argue that the massive amounts of battery acid used in Hybrid vehicles which need to be kept from the water table of the planet disqualify the hybrid as a green vehicle.
 * Can you provide a link to information about this so-called "massive" amount of acid? I mean, how massive can it be when the batteries take up such a small space, and, uh, NiMH batteries are used in some cars (the Prius, for example).  Is there much acid in those ones? PeterHansen 23:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Green Vehicle Showroom
There is also a car dealer called Green Vehicle Showroom in Los Gatos See http://m.siliconvalley.com/articles/263990 --HybridBoy 12:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Green car media
I suggest a section / article about green car media (publications about green cars and vehicles). --Mac (talk) 14:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The term 'green vehicle'
Obviously refered to a vehicle that was green in colour in years gone by. Is there no other, proper term for this? Green vehicle seems like a somewhat shoddy marketing buzzword Towel401 (talk) 22:02, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I see that requests for references for the definition have been outstanding for quite a while, suggesting it is a neologism (or more honestly a made-up phrase). Would you like to suggest that this page should be deleted? Greglocock (talk) 00:32, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Much to my amusement the recently supplied reference for the term.... doesn't define it. At all. QED. Greglocock (talk) 11:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Biomass and Biochar cars
Biomass (pure wood) can also be used as a "fuel" (see http://www.biomassauthority.com/a/precer-bioracer-biomass-car/) Not sure where to mention it however, as it probably cant be burned in a ICE engine. Biochar too can probably be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.246.165.186 (talk) 09:14, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Green Vehicle Motor Shows
do we really need this? I don't think so. It seems perilously close to a list of weblinks. Greglocock (talk) 00:42, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

RS
When does RS mean RIDICULOUS SOURCE? When it suggests that a 21 mpg 4 seater is a green vehicle. Greglocock (talk) 11:07, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that including an SUV as a green car is ridiculous, but read the details in the source. KBB Green includes cars in several categories, then among SUVs 21 mpg is relatively a high fuel economy as the average is 16 mpg if I am not mistaken. Anyway, the term green car is quite flexible as the examples show.--Mariordo (talk) 13:09, 2 May 2010 (UTC)


 * My SEVEN seater SUV gets 21 mpUSgallon. Even when towing a 600 kg trailer. Since it is the biggest selling SUV in Australia I guess we've just saved the planet Greglocock (talk) 08:34, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Cleanup of Sustainable Transport
There's a bunch of material which I am hoping to shift out of Sustainable transport and which belongs either here or nowhere, it was shifted there as a merge from Green Transport (which I was never in agreement with, but which could maybe be made to work....). I'll try to do it with tact and care but feel free to revert. The Sustainainable Transport page includes some truly strange vehicles claiming to be "green" and some of them (wind powered cars?) probably don't need to be on Wikipedia at all.Travelplanner (talk) 11:00, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Freight
Just a comment - I can't find anything on Wikipedia about fuel efficiency / alternative fuel freight vehicles. Am I not looking in the right place or should there be something here? I know virtually nothing about the topic, except that it surely exists...Travelplanner (talk) 10:25, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * You are right. I am planning to creating a new section on this article to deal with green vehicles based on their high fuel efficiency, including clean diesel, but limited to light vehicles. I expect to begin this new section in a couple of weeks.--Mariordo (talk) 12:05, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Mariordo, perhaps you can make a section on belly tankers; ie such as the GM Performance Division Ecotec Lakester 2006 (see also: Talk:Automobile )

Green vehicle image
Perhaps that a truly green vehicle (emissionless, made from cradle to cradle parts) can be implemented. examples are the Ford Model U, the new Jeep Renegade, Edag light car, CQS Group T Racing Team Pegasus (see http://www.cqsgrouptracingteam.be/nl/odyssee/doelstellingen_o ), ... 91.182.9.74 (talk) 14:47, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Also a good image would be the Volkswagen_1-litre_car —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.182.193.178 (talk) 18:16, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

The hybrid car definitly needs removal, the greenest technology that can be implemented today is biofuel-powered vehicles, ie pure plant oil, biodiesel. Noted at Ecopolis episode on transport, hosted by Dan Kammen. The winner was the E-jeepney, but biofuel was considered the best option for vehicles, the e-jeepney only won due to its design/ability to transport more people.

91.182.197.81 (talk) 17:29, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Energy efficiency table
Perhaps it can be mentioned in the table or text that compressed air-ICE cars are 26,7% efficient vs 21,2% for a gasoline ICE and 77,5% for electrochemical battery-powered cars ref= http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/4/4/044011/fulltext Note however that MDI mentioned that the base data was wrong= this needed to be 7,5l gasoline/100km instead of 5,2, thus a difference of 30,5%; this data needs to be implemented to current calculations ( MDI calculated 10,6% for gasoline ICE efficiency) KVDP (talk) 17:11, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

small update: perhaps "Gas burner-Stirling engine" can also be added: see http://blog.vadaenergy.com/?p=807, the DEKA Revolt simply uses it to recharge a EC battery, but it could probably also propell the vehicle on its own —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.182.132.58 (talk) 11:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Avoid Greenwashing
Terms such as Environmentally friendly are biased and constitute Greenwashing. Lets try to use accepted terms that have some objectivity. Even "Green" is ambiguous and can be abused. Also, not all alternative fuels are better environmentally. Rlsheehan (talk) 15:04, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Icon
The tagging of the prius photo with an opinion tag raises a good point. Surely the iconic green vehicle is either a bicycle or a 747, since those seem to be the preffered modes of transport for green politicians? Either way it needs a ref Greglocock (talk) 22:05, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I will provide several RS, just give me some time, I am quite busy now.--Mariordo (talk) 22:33, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Better yet, use a different word.  Rlsheehan (talk) 00:09, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that a different wording is a better option, as the search shows that the Prius is considered an icon or symbol of green car among the environmental/green car movement. Anyway, here are some sources that might help find the right words. --Mariordo (talk) 23:13, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * ...of the Prius being an “icon” of the green car movement
 * ...the Prius allowed you to make a green statement with a car for the first time ever
 * ...the most famous green car, ...the leader of the green car revolution
 * Toyota Prius: Latest status symbol for the wealthy?
 * ...the Toyota Prius has been the heralded and hated automotive symbol of the “green’ movement
 * Toyota has been able to convert the Prius into a status symbol which portrays the owner as "Forward Thinking" or "World Minded," but most of all, "Green.

I vote to change the image of the Prius to another car alltogether. The Prius is a hybrid vehicle, and so it can be at the hybrid vehicle page, but for this page, hybrid cars are too expensive, most have far too much horsepower (should be less than 10 HP) and they're too complicated (uses 2 engines), so it will never catch on globally (ie in developing countries). What about we changed it to the REVAi or we can change it to an image of a Motorised quadricycle (ie an Aixam microcar). If we note in the description that the vehicle in the image uses a biofuel (ie ethanol, butanol, straight vegetable oil, ...), it is definitly a green vehicle, and also a useful alternative to people in the entire world (including developing regions). KVDP (talk) 13:27, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Reasons to buy an electric car in 2013
Here's a new article that you might want to cite in appropriate articles: -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:48, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Power rating
Since NEV's only need to be able to reach a speed of 45 km/h, the power rating (HP) of the vehicle can be way lower than what it needs to be with highway-capable vehicles (that need to be able to attain 120 km/h). Since wind resistance becomes ever greater with higher speeds, power ratings of the engines used in vehicles need to be much larger (non-lineair graph). This also means that much more energy (fuel) is needed to propel the vehicles, and as vehicles are much more powerful and able to attain larger speeds, the possibility of fatal accidents becomes much greater (so the fact that we allow these powerful vehicles to be build results in more deaths).

Include a section in this article about this. KVDP (talk) 18:13, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I suggest that it should refer to the following, emphasis mine "Yesterday, we heard the tragic story that a U.K. owner of a Reva G-Wiz, the tiny neighborhood electric vehicle (NEV) sold in Europe as a quadricycle, was killed when her all-electric runabout hit a garden wall. The 47-year-old woman was thrown clear of the diminutive G-Wiz as it split in two just beneath the front seats where the heavy under-seat battery tray meets the floor. While official reports into the accident have yet to be released, the vehicle appears to have split on impact with the wall." I doubt many real cars would kill their drivers on collision with a garden wall. Greglocock (talk) 00:30, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

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Dr. Takeuchi's comment on this article
Dr. Takeuchi has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:

"This is a good article but I think many parts are overlapping with the page for Alternative fuel vehicle."

We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.

We believe Dr. Takeuchi has expertise on the topic of this article, since he has published relevant scholarly research:


 * Reference : Ibrahim Alhulail & Kenji Takeuchi, 2014. "Effects of Tax Incentives on Sales of Eco-Friendly Vehicles: Evidence from Japan," Discussion Papers 1412, Graduate School of Economics, Kobe University.

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