Talk:Greenbelt (Golden Horseshoe)

Controversy Section
I have added a controversy section to this page, as I feel it is currently a bit one-sided. If you feel the section is too critical, DO NOT delete it. Change it to something you feel would be a little more neutral.

Completely one-sided
This article has but one point of view, and that is the pro-greenbelt side. There should be a controversy section, or at least an article that is a little more neutral.


 * I wouldn't say that it's one-sided. It clearly states multiple times that there is opposition to the protection of the greenbelt. While Wikipedia should always remain unbiased, I don't think it's too outlandish to say that maybe there are more objective benefits than downsides to maintaining a solid oxygen supply in the atmosphere. Claiming that the greenbelt serves a useful purpose isn't some one-sided opinion so long as it can be verified as true. Spyroevan (talk) 18:31, 17 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Such a biased position on neutrality! (I don't have an account, please don't judge me negatively) 204.239.155.99 (talk) 18:27, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Reference
This article from the Globe and Mail may be a useful reference. Mind matrix  19:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Ontario Greenbelt Logo.gif
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Move?

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:04, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Greenbelt (Golden Horseshoe) → Ontario Greenbelt —
 * This move was proposed 3 weeks ago and has not received objections. Need administrator assistance since Ontario Greenbelt already exists as re-direct. -- Natural  R X 20:40, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I am proposing to move this article to Ontario Greenbelt. While it seems reasonable, I wanted to initiate a discussion only because there is another greenbelt located in Ottawa. Basically, my main arguments for this move:
 * This greenbelt is much larger than the other; 7200 vs. 200 km2.
 * A google search produces unanimous results in reference to this greenbelt.
 * identify it as "Ontario's Greenbelt.  do not distinguish the greenbelt from the one in Ottawa.

I think its size and the government's language have established it as 'Ontario's Greenbelt'. I don't think it will take away from the Ottawa one as long as the other uses template is retained at the top of the article. -- Natural  R X 19:49, 16 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Support. The greenbelt of Ottawa is not known as and never called "Ontario Greenbelt", so there is no issue confusing the two. -- P 1 9 9 • TALK 13:37, 17 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. Neither the infobox, nor the article lede, nor the official website of the subject refer to the subject as "Ontario Greenbelt". Plain "Greenbelt" seems to be correct. Is there a source to demonstrate the proposed name is correct? Alternatively, perhaps the disambiguation should change? --Bsherr (talk) 21:13, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
 * There is another greenbelt in Ottawa, and many more around the world. Hence why I proposed the move 3 weeks ago facilitating discussion. My main rationales however are that this greenbelt is the larger of two in Ontario (7200 vs. 200 km2), a google search for "Ontario Greenbelt" produces unanimous results in reference to this greenbelt, and    identify it as "Ontario's Greenbelt". -- Natural   R X 21:38, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Support, with a caveat. Found this and this which support the idea of the new title, but even within these sites the area is referred to as both "Ontario Greenbelt" and "Ontario's Greenbelt".  I'm partial to the latter, but can live with either one.  Reference to the Golden Horseshoe in the title of the article is misleading.   PK  T (alk)  21:47, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * How is it misleading? --Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:24, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Opposed, as it is not the only greenbelt in Ontario. -- Earl Andrew - talk 21:52, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Mildly opposed (count me as 1/2 of a vote)  I agree with all of Natural RX's arguments. Including that this greenbelt is so much more large and prominent that it could lay claim to being Ontario's greenbelt.  The problem is that in Wikipedese (sentence case for titles unless it's a real-world title) the exact proposed title "Ontario Greenbelt" with a capital "G" is a statement that such is the title of the place, and such does not appear to be the case. Maybe someone could dig deeper and see if it has some title beside just "Greenbelt" Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:15, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I never read through the discussion but as someone who is not from Ontario but has heard of the Ottawa and GTA greenbelts I would find it confusing for this article to be called the Ontario Greenbelt. Newfoundlander&amp;Labradorian (talk) 02:01, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Opposed, as it is not the only greenbelt in Ontario. UrbanNerd (talk) 04:30, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Opposed - Ontario Greenbelt isn't the name. Not the only greenbelt in Ontario.  The proposal is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.  And my google search of "Greenbelt Ontario" (the two words, not the phrase) resulted in 447,000, while "Greenbelt Ottawa" (again, the words, not the phrase) resulted in 4,580,000 hits, while oddly enough when I reverse the words I get 447,000 hits for Ontario and 416,000 for Ottawa - while specific Google searches are not really determinative of anything (especially this one), both results make me doubt the assertion that the Golden Horseshoe greenbelt is so, so, so much better known, or that the Ottawa greenbelt is "not known". --Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:15, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
 * And in response to those that have found online references to "Ontario's Greenbelt", it is similarly easy to find online references to names such as "Greater Golden Horseshoe Greenbelt" (see, for example, this, this, or even this which refers to both "Greater Golden Horseshoe Greenbelt" and "Ontario's Greenbelt" - all from the first page of a Google search). --Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:24, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Nay to the proposed move as it is not at all a proper name and is misleading to diminish and deny the existence of any others in the province. It has the connotation that there is nothing else to Ontario but that tiny bit of the country. Though not officially a formal "greenbelt" there is much of the province that effectively is a greenbelt due to lack of any interest in development and that area vastly exceeds the formal Greenbelt in the south. The self-assertion to being Ontario's Greenbelt is somewhat akin to claiming all the counties and cities further than Oshawa and Barrie are not really part of Ontario. The Greenbelt Protection Act, 2004 makes no mention of a formal name.  The legislation itself, the Greenbelt Act, 2005, calls it the "Greenbelt Area" which is to be managed according to the "Greenbelt Plan" by the "Greenbelt Council".  The Greenbelt Statute Law Amendment Act, 2005 continues to name it "Greenbelt Area".  Titling the article "Greenbelt Area" would technically work, though still probably require disambiguation, but the formal name is itself redundant for a greenbelt is an area. I would also support moving it to exactly where it now is, Greenbelt (Golden Horseshoe).  delirious  &amp;  lost  ☯ ~hugs~ 22:32, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Support This Greenbelt was created by the provincial government of Ontario, whereas the Ottawa Greenbelt is maintained by the Nation Capitol Commission. Furthermore, referring to it as the Golden Horseshoe Greenbelt is a bit of a misnomer, as the Greenbelt extends all the way up to the Bruce Peninsula.Mr. No Funny Nickname (talk) 02:17, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Would this then mean the one in Ottawa should be Greenbelt (Canada) or Canada Greenbelt ? This is more than GTA, more than GH, but less than Southern Ontario; is there a name for this area? The greenbelts seem to be disambiguated by location not by legislative body that declared them to be greenbelts. The Ottawa one is around Ottawa and this one is around the Golden Horseshoe. I declared my back yard to be a greenbelt... does it get named Greenbelt (Calgary) or Greenbelt (jessica) ? Suppose i also declared the backyard of my family's home a greenbelt... is that Greenbelt (Sudbury) or Greenbelt (jessica 2) ? delirious  &amp;  lost  ☯ ~hugs~ 04:48, 17 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Size of the greenbelt
I don't know where the original info came from. This is the info that I have used in my edit. http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page187.aspx

''Ontario’s Greenbelt is an area of green space, farmland, vibrant communities, forests, wetlands, and watersheds. It contains nearly two million acres (800,000 hectares) of land – an area larger than Prince Edward Island – and is the largest and most strongly protected greenbelt in the world. ... It extends 325 km from the eastern end of the Oak Ridges Moraine, near Rice Lake, in the east, to the Niagara River in the west. The Greenbelt includes the 800,000 acres of land protected by the Niagara Escarpment Plan and the Oak Ridges Moraine Conservation Plan, and 1 million acres of land known as the Protected Countryside established by the overarching Greenbelt Plan. '' Peter K Burian (talk) 19:13, 17 April 2017 (UTC)


 * We need to show the conversion from hectares to acres and to square miles and square kilometers; it's a hassle but needs to be done, I believe. Peter K Burian (talk) 19:44, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Add this to the Future section?
I have updated the Future section with March and April 2017 info from major news media.

Here's a bit more that I did not include. (Not sure if it should be included). I wonder how others feel about adding some of this quote:

Toronto’s Chief Planner and Executive Director of the City Planning Division, Jennifer Keesmaat went on to say: '''“Our region is not running out of land to build houses. Far from it: there are more than 1,500 square kilometers of undeveloped land in the Greater Golden Horseshoe. We could build five more Mississaugas, or 11 more Oakvilles, without bumping into the Greenbelt.” She sees better planning and mass transit as the keys to affordable housing.' http://www.sierraclub.ca/en/the-ontario-greenbelt-is-a-great-success-but-is-its-future-secure Peter K Burian (talk) 20:31, 17 April 2017 (UTC)


 * btw, I am not an environmentalist. I am more interested in history, geography and business/commerce. So, I came at this edit from that perspective. I have no bias and my edits are based on the facts from experts and the trusted news media such as the CBC, Toronto Star, Globe and Mail and the National Post. Peter K Burian (talk) 20:49, 17 April 2017 (UTC)