Talk:Greg Packer

Untitled
Saddo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.203.209.210 (talk) 09:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Stategy
'His stategy is to appear' - there's an 'r' missing from 'strategy'. And FWIW: how old is this article? And already the trash hanging out here have made it a mess? Would you do it all over again, Jimmy?

Notable person?
I question whether this individual is a "notable person," as per Wikipedia's standards, deserving of a biographical entry. Moreover, the article clearly reads like it was written by the subject himself. Did he win a Nobel Prize? No. But, he's definitely appeared in the media and been noted by people enough. Stormj 01:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC) I think a better question is how lasting of an impact will this person make? I do not consider his 5 minutes of fame as a "obsessive linesitter" to be worthy of a notable person status, and therefore this article should be deleted. bloodyomaha 18:35, June 27 2007
 * the Wikipedia notability test asks only if the person has been "the subject of published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject". Packer certainly has. You might argue that our society would be a better place if he weren't notable, but by the standards of this system, there is no question that he is.

Uucp 10:45, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the notability criteria also states that meeting one or more criteria does not necessarily ensure a notable person title. Therefore we should also consider the impact he's made on society, if any, as well as his relevance in, say, 5 years from now.
 * bloodyomaha 12:34, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes but "Trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability." This man's notability is clearly anecdotal at best. It seems like an awful lot of original research done in this article as well. 76.23.215.101 15:05, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * You are mistaken. After his reign of "man in the street" interviews was revealed in 2003, he received massive, nontrivial coverage. Uucp 18:12, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I think there should be a real profession called "attention whoring", which is clearly what this person has done with his life. 142.239.254.20 14:05, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * If Paris Hilton is a notable person then this guy is notable too.--Soylentyellow 16:15, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Not notable, and should be deleted.

'Asks' changed to 'begs'
Greg is clearly begging - I quote from Wikipedia "Begging is the practice whereby a person obtains money, food, shelter or other things from people they encounter by request." His actions certainly fit the definition. Sean --58.175.60.129 23:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Ann Coulter?
The money quote is from Ann Coulter? Aren't weak sources supposed to be nixed? Stormj 01:04, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * What exactly makes Coulter a "weak" source for this article? &mdash; Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 07:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

This is not wikinews
I removed a "BREAKING NEWS!" style bit of text from the article about his camping out for the iPhone, and also the link to his paypal begging site. Wikipedia is not a news organization, and breathless reporting about his every move doesn't serve the interest of the project. Imagine, if you will, that the article you're editing will be part of a project-wide snapshot taken and maintained as a massive volume of books and ask yourself if it's good enough to stay. If you opened a copy of the Encyclopedia Brittanica from 1984 that had a mention about Gorbachev having just left on one week vacation to the Urals or something, would that be useful to you? - C HAIRBOY (☎) 15:15, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. I removed the line about his being mentioned in a Gizmodo article, and I think the entire iPhone section should be removed or combined with the section above it. --Mugsywwiii 17:30, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. With any luck you'll still be working on this article ten years from now. That will help keep you out of trouble and far away from the grownups. This Wikipedia thing is GREAT!
 * Agreed. It wasn't a separate section when I made my edit, but that appears to have changed. - C HAIRBOY (&#9742;) 17:50, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Is there any kind of "camping in line" article that this can be merged with?
 * bloodyomaha 12:37, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Photo
Is this photo really necessary? Surely someone can talk a photo of the man when he is awake and has a shirt on. &mdash; Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 07:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yer gonna talk a photo? Do you see a therapist? You should.
 * English, do you type it? &mdash; Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 19:30, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I've removed the photo again. It had been restored with the edit summary, "Restored deleted picture - next time why not provide a link to the wiki policy on "humiliation" before removing valid stuff?"  I would think that the biographies-of-living-persons policy would obviously preclude inclusion of the photo.  Is this an issue that even needs to be debated? Not to mention that it has absolutely no encyclopedic value whatsoever.  I've also requested the photo be speedy deleted as an attack image. I cannot believe that I did not simply do that originally.  ObiterDicta ( pleadings • errata • appeals ) 02:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Line sitting
Are there any other "professional line sitters" out there that people know of / do they compete for the top of the queue? Believe it or not this is a serious question... Bobbacon 07:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There's those Smash My _____ people who camp for the newest electronic gadget, then smash it with a hammer in front the rest of the people in line. Perhaps an article on line sitting can be written, with Packer and the Smash people mentioned. Neither of the two groups deserve their own articles however.
 * bloodyomaha 08:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * line sitting already exists, so I will investigate and add it to this. Bobbacon 09:02, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I have also found the article Smash Our Stuff which is about "Smash My ___". Bobbacon 09:07, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Awesome job finding the article Bobbacon. These two groups should be merged with that article, and have their own subsections.
 * bloodyomaha 19:58, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Other Media
Greg Packer is featured as a recurring subject in STAR WARS OR BUST - a 1999 documentary that appeared on Channel 4 (UK) about fans camping out to see Star Wars Episode I - http://www.atomfilms.com/film/star_wars_bust.jsp

Man on the street quotes
The whole line sitting thing is less important than the fact that he actively seeks out of reporters to get quoted as the man on the street. His actions raise the questions about using such quotes which are often represented as the public mood at a news event. M stone 23:38, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

AP Memo Cite
A better URL for the AP memo on Packer is http://web.archive.org/web/20070630004408/http://www.poynter.org/forum/view_post.asp?id=5040 - this links directly to the memo in question, whereas the current link fails to result in the memo being displayed.

iLoser speedy delete
Before requesting a delete review, what was the logic behind the speedy delete?--Cerejota 15:27, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Seriously? Please take a moment to check out WP:BLP. - C HAIRBOY  (☎) 15:39, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly. "One blog called this guy a loser" is a completely inappropriate justification for including harmful material in a biography.  "Material available solely on partisan websites or in obscure newspapers should be handled with caution, and, if derogatory, should not be used at all. Material from self-published books, zines, websites, and blogs should never be used as a source about a living person, unless written or published by the subject." Nandesuka 15:54, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Bantha pudu: Reliable sources report this:  I am all for not counting blogs as reliable sources, but here we have two reliable sources reporting the term as applying to Greg Parker. So that argument is moot. I'll wait for more, but I think someone snowballed something a bit more fireproof...--Cerejota 06:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * So, is that a "no" on checking out WP:BLP then? - C HAIRBOY (☎) 06:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Could you please cite where this violates WP:BLP? WP:BLP allows derogatory epithets when reliable sources say they are verifiably notable. I just cited two reliable sources. Did you read my previous post?--Cerejota 16:36, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "Editors should also be on the lookout for biased or malicious content about living persons. If someone appears to be pushing an agenda or a biased point of view, insist on reliable third-party published sources and a clear demonstration of relevance to the person's notability." Explain please why it's relevant that anytime someone looks this guy up, they see "iLoser"?  Have some compassion and show some humanity. - C HAIRBOY  (☎) 16:49, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, but I do have compassion and humanity. That is not the problem here.


 * The quote you provide from WP:BLP is irrelevant in this context: Greg Parker is not notable because of his talent, smarts, business success, inventions, or even smashing good looks, and has enemies and rivals out to get him.


 * He is notable because of his ability to make himself notable. He is all media. And reporting on him means reporting what the media reports about him.


 * In the iPhone coverage, the epithet "iLoser" became of rather common use to refer to him, and since reliable sources - both of which I provide do not push this bias or POV - identify and report as the epithet being used to refer to him, its all kosher like Nathan's frankfurter. If this is the single argument, then I fear someone snowballed too quickly.--Cerejota 17:31, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Our differences in opinion are part of what makes Wikipedia great, and you're welcome to express your feelings on this. The assertion that Greg Packer deserves to be forever labeled the 'iLoser' because a couple of weblogs felt a sense of malicious cleverness during the iPhone hype, however, is unnecessary and unkind and is clearly removable under BLP. - C HAIRBOY  (☎) 17:39, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * A followup note, if you feel the deletion was incorrect, the proper place to take it is WP:DRV of course. - C HAIRBOY (☎) 17:40, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree this is what makes wikipedia great. I also already WP:DRV'ed the redirect.


 * I think you are missing the point: Greg Parker is not notable because of anything other than his media coverage. Part of media coverage is nicknames the media generate.


 * For example, Scary Spice is a rather negative nickname for Melanie Brown, but due to the fact that Melanie Brown is notable for being a Spice Girl and the media ascribed nicknames to each member, we redirect this ugly nick name to her.


 * While your sentimnet is rather noble and endearing, I think you ignore the facts about Greg Parker's notability when you seek to "protect" him: he is actively seeking attention, including negative one. If someone is famous for doing things that invite humiliation, describing the humiliation that makes this person notable is not in itself humiliating, simply encyclopedic.


 * Its like not describing Pamela Anderson's amateur sex videos in her bio page, however embarrassing they are for her (embarrassment that earned her 1.5 million, BTW). --Cerejota 23:01, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I started this page (again) the time before it was deleted and protected. I wrote it in a way that was not deflamatory towards Packer and infact argued that he may not even be an "iLoser"- as it is entirely unclear whether he actually is an Apple fanboy or just a line sitter.


 * "iLoser" or indeed "iDork" (a term I have long been aware of but means the same) both refer to someone who owns two or more of the same Apple product, say two 3rd gen iPods- which is what I clearly wrote and explained in the article.


 * You can see what I originally wrote here in my sandbox before I copied it to the artice (with some minor changes to spelling and grammar etc..) Bobbacon 21:59, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Is Greg Packer notable? Redux.
I know there's been a lot of debate over whether Greg Packer should even be listed in Wikipedia. I'm a total noob here but am trying to add a helpful perspective. Three days ago I was reading an article on iPhones (on my iPhone) and it mentioned Greg Packer. I recognized the name immediately but could not recall exactly where or why. But I knew it had been a long article within the past 2 years. I assumed Wikipedia would have something on it and I was correct. I looked it up on Wiki and found the information I was looking for, which is Wikipedia's purpose.

Whether Greg Packer is a publicity whore or not is beside the point. Actually, he probably is. So is Madonna. Madonna is in Wikipedia. So is Greg Packer. Life goes on. Whether he's a media hound or not, he's all over the media, and should be able to be looked up here, IMO, because people will be looking for him here.


 * I suggest this article to be merged with the line sitting article that bobbacon found a couple days ago. He might be well known, but I don't believe his notability warrants an individual article
 * bloodyomaha 07:04, 04 July 2007

Greg Packer is not a PROFESSIONAL line-sitter, as often quoted in the media, blogs and here on Wiki. A "professional" is, by definition,


 * 1) following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.
 * of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.
 * 1) appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.
 * 2) engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.
 * 3) following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.
 * 4) making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.”
 * 5) undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball.
 * 6) of or for a professional person or his or her place of business or work: a professional apartment; professional equipment.
 * 7) done by a professional; expert: professional car repair

I am now aware of any circumstances in which Packer is paid to wait on lines. He does not earn a living at it. (the recent stunt requesting donations should not count. I assume he received little, if any, contribution). The only argument to be made regarding use of the term "professional" would be to claim that he is an "expert" line-sitter, but I submit that it takes no particular skill, expertice or training to sit down.

Rather than call him a Professional, this might better be called his hobby, obsession or compulsion; it has indeed earned Packer more than his share of noteriety. 76.109.235.249 05:48, 5 July 2007 (UTC)tbone1869


 * I would not consider him a professional either although the press have called him this. On the line-sitting page I have clarified that despite what the press say, he should not be considered a "professional". Bobbacon 22:09, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

New Article - great overview on Greg Packer, personality, exploits, etc.
Greg Packer was the feature subject of a recent article in the March issue of Southwest Airline's magazine Spirit. While not considered a scholarly journal, this article is quite well written and is the best overall discussion to date on Packer, what he does, how and why he does it. I believe this is worth adding to the Links section of the main Wiki article. Link: http://www.spiritmag.com/2008_03/features/ft4.php

New Greg Packer sighting
Long Island Business News on April 25, 2011 quoted Greg Packer "a retired highway maintenance operator from Huntington" on being one of the first people on line at the first Long Island (New York) Sonic (http://libn.com/blog/2011/04/25/sonic-opens-first-li-location/) Dan Sachs (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:51, 26 April 2011 (UTC).

Greg Packer appears in german media
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/0,1518,820194,00.html

the article was linked on the frontpage of spiegel.de covering his "activity" --92.228.160.232 (talk) 13:29, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Greg Packer. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100404145332/http://www.nytimes.com:80/2004/06/22/politics/22CND-CLIN.html to http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/22/politics/22CND-CLIN.html

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