Talk:Gregory Peter XX Ghabroyan

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Place of birth: Syria versus France
In Special:Diff/1062992547, the place of birth in the Template:Infobox_person was changed from "Aleppo, Syria" to "Aleppo, Syria, France" without explanation. I reverted that change, explaning, 'appending "France" seems like undue emphasis on the politics of the time, whereas birth place is primarily geographic'. This has since been re-reverted with the explanation that "the State [meaning Syria] belonged to the country France."

However, the Mandatory Syrian Republic did not officially "belong to" France; rather, as explained in Mandate for Syria and the Lebanon, France was "intended to act as a trustee until the inhabitants were considered eligible for self-government." Moreover, regardless of the precise level of control France exercised over Syria, it seems improper to say (in effect) that this person was born in France. That would be like saying George Washington was born in Britain since Virginia was a British colony at the time of this birth.

I checked the cited Catholic News Agency article and it says, "The Catholicos-Patriarch was born in Aleppo, Syria, on Nov. 15, 1934, the sixth of 12 children." I didn't check any others, but would be surprised if any of them said he was born in France. (Incidentally, that date is slightly different than what the article says, November 14. But let's ignore that in this particular discussion.)

Therefore, I maintain that the birth place should be reverted to "Aleppo, Syria". Smcpeak74 (talk) 20:05, 31 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Syria belonged to France back then... 79.169.228.122 (talk) 20:24, 31 December 2021 (UTC) In practice, in eveyrhing but in name. Temporarily, maybe... 79.169.228.122 (talk) 20:26, 31 December 2021 (UTC)


 * You don't seem to have addressed my points. Can you cite a reliable source that describes the relationship between Syria and France that way?  And can you explain why that relationship justifies saying, in effect, that Ghabroyan was born in France?  Smcpeak74 (talk) 22:04, 31 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Some other articles were also edited, as discussed at User_talk:79.169.228.122, and some additional rationale was provided there, but I suggest keeping the discussion in this article's talk section restricted to just this article. I'm going to request a third opinion here, and propose that that opinion also focus on just this article.  Smcpeak74 (talk) 15:09, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello both! I find the argument of Smcpeak74 a bit stronger. I looked at about 15 sources, and none mentioned France. I don't think a biography is the place to explain the more intricate details of the relationship between Syria and France at that time. Femke (talk) 17:22, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the additional research, Femke. Meanwhile, Jingiby has changed the birth place to "Aleppo, Syria (under French mandate)", which resolves my primary concern (as it no longer implies he was born in France). 79.169.228.122, does that change seem like an acceptable compromise? Smcpeak74 (talk) 19:29, 1 January 2022 (UTC)