Talk:Gresford disaster

Renaming?
See Category talk:Mining disasters for a discussion on whether to rename this and similar articles to remove the capitalisation. [[User:Inauguration'Bold text''[[

Link title
--82.31.187.254 (talk) 19:17, 27 January 2010 (UTC) ]]'''| Z iggurat]] 21:36, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

1973 closure
This article says ...closed on economic grounds. The Gresford article says ...closed due to "geological problems". Neither claim is provided with a reference. "Economic grounds" can be a variety of reasons, only one of which is "geological problems". These claims could benefit from clarification. Does anyone have any reliable sources? Feline Hymnic (talk) 17:16, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

List of casualties
I just wondered whether the list should be put in its own article because of the length of the table? It makes the page unnecessarily long and difficult to navigate.

It's obviously very important, but it's already stated that there were more than 260 casualties, so this seems a little bit too much minutiae.

Any interested person could then use the link to see the page entitled: (for example) List of casualties of the 1934 Gresford Disaster.

Just a thought... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.170.214.23 (talk) 11:39, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd support such a move. garik (talk) 14:11, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree as well. The list is also incorrect, it doesn't match the Remembrance book on the WCBC website or the other lists online. If there are no objections I'll create a new article with the list based on the Book of Remembrance.Apau98 (talk) 09:57, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Fully support. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:51, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Fully support, even though rather late. JDAWiseman (talk) 19:58, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
 * About 82 years? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:09, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Move of page
Why was this moved without any discussion? It may be, technically, "better grammar", but it's a well-known enough event to merit full capitalisation in this case, surely? Svejk74 (talk) 08:02, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Comment moved from article
The comment below was posted to the article. --bonadea contributions talk 11:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I was reading the article which interested me greatly, I note that the time recorded for the explosion is 2:08 am but the anonymous lyrics below for the poem state time as three in the morning. I just wondered which was the correct time; possibly who ever wrote the lyrics did not know the exact time and so rounded the figure up to 3.00 am —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chameleon6 (talk • contribs) 11:39, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Victims
The table has been moved as per WP:MEMORIAL.

The names are already available at Wrexham's own Virtual Book of Remembrance which is already an external link in this article.

Christie’s auction
Not worthy of comment in the main article, but perhaps of interesting to passing researchers, might be an auction by Messrs. Christie, Manson & Woods, on Tuesday 2nd October 1934, “of Works Of Art presented by the Exhibitors at The Antique Dealers’ Fair for the benefit of The Mansion House Fund, In aid of dependents of Miners who lost their lives in the Gresford Colliery disaster, which will be sold without reserve”. (My picture 22176.) JDAWiseman (talk) 17:28, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
 * There seems to be far more detail about the Disaster Relief Fund(s) at the main article. Not sure why that does not also appear here. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:39, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I’m writing a book on Vintage Port, so have been going through Christie’s catalogues. Thinking of Wikipedia, of this auction I photographed only the title page. Christie’s allows me to post a paper copy to people, but not to send digital. If you need paper — to decide whether to add to article — I very willing to post/mail a paper copy (my contact info). JDAWiseman (talk) 17:46, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
 * That's remarkably thoughtful and generous of you, JD. I'll wait to see what other editors think about it. I guess we might see you (eventually) over at Port_wine? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:51, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Subsequent to my posts in 2014, Christie’s have told me that I can re-use pictures. Hence small (394×606) and large (1578×2427). JDAWiseman (talk) 13:08, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Gathering the Jewels
The Gathering the Jewels mainpage says this:
 * "Gathering the Jewels is offline due to essential security maintenance.
 * We apologise for any problems this may cause.
 * You can view nearly all the GTJ items on the Peoples Collection website

The link is present on many pages, but without an indication of likely offline duration, it's difficult to know whether it should be replaced or explained in more detail. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:42, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 13 October 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved back to Gresford disaster. No support for capital D. Nom has just wasted time by not following RM procedures. Andrewa (talk) 05:11, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Gresford Mining Disaster → Gresford Disaster – Consistency with capital D in article text. Failed first move will not allow UNDO. Current title is a stop-gap placeholder. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:54, 13 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I believe that the WP:MOS would say it should go back to where it was, at Gresford disaster. --David Biddulph (talk) 17:58, 13 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Gresford Colliery disaster J3Mrs (talk) 18:04, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Happy with all the text being different? What does MoS say about that? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:29, 13 October 2016 (UTC) p.s. London Beer flood? p.p.s but Senghenydd colliery disaster suggests this should be "Gresford colliery disaster"?
 * Gresford Colliery is a proper noun, as is Colliery so perhaps that should be changed. J3Mrs (talk) 19:04, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I am mistaken, Senghenydd is the village name, not that of the colliery, so that title is correct, but I still think the article's title should be Gresford Colliery disaster which is where it happened rather than in the village. J3Mrs (talk) 06:49, 14 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Revert to Gresford disaster until/unless someone presents a case for a proper name here. From book search it appears that Gresford disaster is what it is mostly called; much more than including colliery in it. Dicklyon (talk) 02:40, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The original intended move was simply from d to D. Many of the results in your link show "Gresford Disaster". Or is everyone quite happy to see "Gresford disaster" as the article title and "Gresford Disaster" in the opening line? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:28, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The article title and the opening line should be the same. Disaster should not be capitalised in either. I have seen the disaster called both the Gresford disaster and Gresford Colliery disaster, Colliery makes it clear where the disaster occurred. Either way no capital D. J3Mrs (talk) 12:11, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * And seen it called the Gresford Disaster. See some of Dicklyon's links above. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:02, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * When it's both ways in sources, as here, we default to lowercase per MOS:CAPS. But it looks to me like majority lowercase any way. Dicklyon (talk) 21:41, 17 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Support Gresford disaster. It's far more commonly used; for example Google Books returns 1040 for "Gresford disaster" compared to only 9 for "Gresford mining disaster".--Cúchullain t/ c 14:39, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The proposal here is for capital D. So I am assuming you oppose that. But once again your Google search, like Dicky-lion's, comes back with both variants. I'm sure "tied-to-Google-search-results" is not policy, but I've got a sneaky feeling that any question back at MoS:CAPs about capitalisation of proper nouns will lead us to the wonderful Chicago Manual of Style. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:02, 17 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Post move

 * "Nom made a spelling mistake and was unable to correct it". Please read the history. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:00, 24 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Please accept that I did read several article histories... and quite a lot of other stuff to figure out exactly what you had done. (And I think I got it right.)


 * Please do not move an article to a placeholder, as I have already requested at User talk:Martinevans123. Just raise a technical request. That's what they are for.


 * We are all learners here! WP:creed WP:creed Andrewa (talk) 16:39, 24 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I have replied at User talk:Martinevans123. I had assumed that would be a bit of a giveaway. Except that the log for that change says (quite incorectly) "(No difference)". Martinevans123 (talk) 16:48, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Map
Could there be a map? Perhaps the map in the article about the village of Gresford, but ideally one marking the colliery. And definitely with the inset showing where in Wales. (But I don’t know how to extract the map without all the village-level information.) JDAWiseman (talk) 18:49, 17 October 2016 (UTC)


 * A very good idea, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:32, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

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Coordinates
The coordinates as previously give come down in a housing estate a little to the south of the industrial estate. "In the 1980s the site was redeveloped as an industrial estate." made me suspicious, and looking at the 1945 1" OS map a location slightly further North seems correct. I've updated the coordinates accordingly, can anyone confirm this work?  Thanks, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:51, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's almost exactly right (I remember the mine buildings after closure). Svejk74 (talk) 15:04, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Lyrics
Are the lyrics for the folk song "The Gresford Disaster" Roud Folk Song Index No:3089, covered by copyright, even though they were written "anonymously"? Or does that depend on when and by whom they were first published? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:31, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia takes copyright of external material seriously. See: WP:COPYOTHERS. If there is doubt, it should not be included. The onus is to demonstrate that the material is free of copyright. Feline Hymnic (talk) 13:22, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
 * The song is noted as "trad." on several recordings (eg the Albion Band. Position in the UK is that copyright in cases of unknown authorship lasts for 70 years after the work is 'made', which in this case is assumed to have been c.1935 (see Laidlaw, 1995, "The Gresford Disaster in Popular Memory", Llafur v.6 n.4)Svejk74 (talk) 13:37, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure there was any "Attribution-NonCommercial 2.0 Generic (CC BY-NC 2.0)" back in 1935? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:49, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
 * It's basically a typical anonymous broadside ballad, albeit a 20th century example'Svejk74 (talk) 14:55, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Then I'm not sure what these "doubts" about copyright are. It's now 86 years since they were anonymously written. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:14, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I can't see any doubt here. Svejk74 (talk) 15:34, 1 April 2021 (UTC)