Talk:Grito de Lares

Untitled
Lares Outcry would be the more idiomatic rendering. Wetman 08:37, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Lares Uprising
The "Lares Cry" is also often refered to as the "Lares Uprising"

The correct translation of El Grito de Lares is: The Lares Uprise

The term "cry" refers more to crying with tears, the term "Shout" refers to scream, yell, so "cry of Lares" is wrongly used as the people involved in the uprising were not crying for independence, they were shouting for independence like the Shout of Dolores in Mexico. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.54.168.116 (talk) 11:31, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your observation and edit. I agree with you 100%. Tony the Marine (talk) 17:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I disagree. Cry in the political sense means precisely what occured in Lares. If it's also referred to as the Lares Uprising, then so be it, but if the debate is between Cry and Shout, then Cry is the right word here. A Google search for Shout of Dolores returned 1.8 million entries, but for Cry of Dolores it returned 3.3 million entries. Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 02:06, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
 * You made a valid point, Mercy. I should have clarified what I agreed with and that is the term "Lares Uprising", which is already in the intro. I don't agree with the "Shout" term. Tony the Marine (talk) 02:27, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * Grito de Lares (The Cry of Lares) → Grito de Lares … Rationale: "Cry of Lares" is an translation of the better known name and doesn't need to be in the title --Cúchullain t/ c 19:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

move to Grito de Lares. Joelito (talk) 23:05, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with  ~

*Oppose The Grito de Lares is the historical name and the name which readers will seek when researching. Do not attempt to change the name of a historical event to another language jsut to suite those who do not understand the name, that is why the "Lares Outcry" was placed between. Tony the Marine
 * Support--Cúchullain t/ c 19:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Support --- Oops, I'm sorry that I misunderstood the proposal. I think that the summer heat is finally getting to my head.  change my vote to support! Tony the Marine 01:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I support Cúchullain's proposal to move the article to Grito de Lares. Usually, parentheticals are only used in article titles to distinguish between deceptively similar things, not for translations. I think Grito de Lares is the best title, because even though we should generally prefer English language title, exceptions are made when something is best known by its native-language name, which is the case for the GdL. Alternate renderings, be they in English or Spanish, can be enumerated in the main article space, and can also serve as redirects.--Rockero 00:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Keep the original name of "Grito de Lares," I feel that the English translation has no place in this article. If they wish to translate it they can use Babelfish.--XLR8TION 02:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Support and make The Cry of Lares, Cry of Lares etc redirects. Regards, David Kernow 03:25, 25 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Support Joelito (talk) 03:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Support, Grito de Lares (in Puerto Rico) neither the Grito de Yara (in Cuba), can not be translated, they can be explained to english speakers, both are not "cries" which is a very bad translation to english, both are Independence revolts that proclaimed the establishment of the republic in both countries, that is the true meaning of Grito. --vertical 23:48, 25 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Support, since the few history buffs I know in the States tend to refer to the Grito using the Spanish name. "Grito" is a bit of an euphemism (since close to 600 people were arrested and jailed, it was more likely a major revolt), but it is the better known term. Agree with David that any other spellings should be redirects. Demf 12:19, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Strong Support, I have never heard the term Cry of Lares in all of my research to the event as I wrote my Master's dissertation, and I read quite a bit of books in English. Like Vertical said, the correct translation of the term "Grito" isn't "Cry," which is merely a direct translation. The name in English should be "Lares Uprising" or Revolt. Smylere Snape 16:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Support and there can be redirects as indicated by David Kernow. Joaquin Murietta 22:08, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Please help expanding this article
There's quite a lot to be added here: extra historical details on the reasons for the uprise (some go as far back as 1862), some tactical details, some extra details on what happened before the movement was squealed upon and afterwards, the death of Matías Brugman... tons of stuff. Olga Jimenez de Wagenheim's book is excellent on the matter, and there have been other recent books with even more references than hers. Any volunteers? Demf 12:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I found the original Perez Moris book online... while obviously biased (some of the later research has disputed many of his facts, using court records as a basis), the facts were obviously fresh in his mind when he wrote his book. Caveat Emptor... Demf 16:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

To start, well, it's Bruckman, not Brugman. If anyone else agrees, I would like to change it (since I'm a direct descendant). Thanxs.Solcita 15:54, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Jose Julian Acosta.jpg
The image Image:Jose Julian Acosta.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --02:18, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Taken care of. Tony the Marine (talk) 02:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Connection needed between Aftermath & Holiday
In the "Aftermath" the article cites among the positive outcomes of the Grito de Lares that Spain granted the island more political autonomy. In explaining the historical view of El Grito de Lares the article indicates that there was an attempt by a Spanish journalist to minimize the importance of this event. That is countered by citing other later historical events:


 * During the years immediately following the Grito, there were minor pro-independence protests and skirmishes with the Spanish authorities in Las Marías, Adjuntas, Utuado, Vieques, Bayamón, Ciales and Toa Baja (Palo Seco).

Next thing we know, it's 1899:


 * The Spanish prohibition [on celebrating it as a holiday] lasted until its colonial rule over Puerto Rico formally ended in 1899.

This makes it seem as if El Grito de Lares had no further historical significance and doesn't mention its (& Puerto Rico's?) role. All of a sudden colonial rule ended and the article is into the 20th Century. I believe that El Grito de Lares is seen today as the precursor to the Cuban War of Independence, which led to the U.S. involvement that led to the Spanish-American War. Forgive my ignorance regarding Puerto Rico's involvement in the fight for independence, but I have always assumed that Puerto Rico did more than just contribute one person who became C-i-C of the Cuban Liberation Army - Juan Ríus Rivera.

Am I wrong? Did Puerto Rico remain passive between 1869 and 1899? I suspect not and if it did not, the article should at least mention that El Grito de Lares was just the beginning of the Revolution rather than an isolated event. I propose that at the very least we add a sentence or a small paragraph which conveys this idea. Something along the lines of:


 * Although el Grito de Lares movement was quashed, it led to further attempts to obtain liberation from Spain, eventually culminating in the war which ended Spanish colonial rule. [Here a link to Spanish American War]

Someone with a greater knowledge of Puerto Rican history might want to expand on this, but I propose adding the above, or something like it. Thoughts? It could be added immediately after the sentence about the "skirmishes" at "Las Marías, Adjuntas, Utuado, Vieques, Bayamón, Ciales and Toa Baja (Palo Seco)," but that paragraph seems to focus more on whether or not it was a significant event. Is this really in dispute?

By the way, I clicked on three of the links for those skirmishes which led me to places in Puerto Rico. However, nowhere in those three articles was there any mention of any skirmish.

One other thing, the way Cubans mention el Grito de Lares (which I have always heard as el Grito de Llares - I have no idea why) I assumed that it served as a rallying cry along the lines of "Remember the Alamo" or was seen as an important event like "the shot heard 'round the world." Does anyone know? Ileanadu (talk) 13:55, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Smithsonian
Please look at the timeline of Puerto Rico History on a Smithsonian website where Grito de Lares is mentioned. They state that "...and the rebels were pardoned by the Spanish government." I have never heard this. I contacted The Smithsonian about this and they have not answered.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 10:13, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I got a response that my concerns have been passed on  to the curatorial staff.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 03:57, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Motivation for the Insurrection
An academic book on the cause of the uprising I have read says a major contributing reason for the rebels was the trade terms set by Spanish immigrant merchants in Mayaguez. Some of the leaders of uprising were more motivated by their feelings about Spanish treatment of delinquent debtors rather than a desire for independence.RichardBond (talk) 17:42, 12 June 2022 (UTC)