Talk:Group B

GTO?
Did the Ferrari GTO really run as a class B? Doesn't say that in the Ferrari_GTO article. Gzuckier 14:50, 19 July 2005 (UTC)


 * The "288" GTO was not released as a Group B racer, but it was initially developed as one. --SFoskett 15:49, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

The 288 GTO Evo was race ready in 1986, but no races materialised for it to compete in... Incidentally, the Ferrari F40 was derived pretty much directly from the Evo... 84.92.80.169 13:51, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

9 minutes?
From paragraph on Group 4 and Group 2: "At one particular rally its combined time for all the stages was nine minutes quicker than that of the rally winner." <-- This needs some clarification. If the Audi was nine minutes quicker, then why wasn't it the winner? Or was it 9 minutes quicker than the previous year's winner? Was it in a different class?

Answer
Before Group B began, when Audi had just released the Quattro for Group 4, they entered it in a race as not a competetor, just to test how it would perform. Since it was the first four wheel drive car in rally, and wasn't exactly homologated for the series, they couldn't compete and wanted to test it. The end result of the race was that the Audi car finished 9 minutes faster then the car that took first place, and had Audi been competing officially, they would have won by a huge margin.

Weight
Do someone know how much was the weight on Group B rally cars, eg. Lancia S4 and Peugeot 205 ?

Group B Lancia S4 about 970 kg.

Minimal weight was definitely variable depending of engine capacity. Ericd 20:05, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Circuit Racing
Why there are no mention of circuit racers as the FIA used Gr B to replace the Gr 4 and it attracted a fair selection of Porsche 930s during the early 80'sWilliRennen 12.19 24 Feb 2006 (utc)

Group B and Group 4 were allowed to race on closed track. Until the WRC there was no distinct regulations for rally cars. Ericd 20:04, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Unrestricted ?
"By contrast, Group B had few restrictions on technology, design and the number of cars required for homologation to compete." Wrong a production of 200 was required. Ericd 20:02, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

1983 Season
The 1983 season section neglects to mention that Lancia won the Manufacturers title, which was considered much more important than the drivers title at the time. I've added an extra sentence to that effect and also mentioned the fact that Lancia did not contest the RAC Rally, even though Walter Rohrl might have won the driver Championship if they had done so. 84.92.80.169 13:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

The statement above is plainly wrong: Walter Röhrl only had a contract to drive six rallys in 1983. His contract explicitly excluded his participation in the Safari, the Bandama, the 1000 Lakes and the RAC. It is well known that Röhrl hated these events with a passion and therefore he was not willing to drive there. (For readers able to speak German, watch the following youtube-clip where Christian Geistdörfer confirms this information at around 19′50″: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee6Zzk1cOoM.) This mannerism is also responsible for his break-up with Opel the year before, as Röhrl declined to drive the RAC which had been very important for sponsor Rothmans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.187.110.29 (talk) 20:53, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Renault 5 Turbo
The R5 Turbo was introduced as a Group 4. Many early Group B cars were Group 4 cars who shaw their homologation "extended" to Group B. Ericd 18:48, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Photos
The article looks great to me, but I do have one quibble: there are 16 photos and they're all about cars. OK, one is a car plus Michelle Mouton, and a whole four photos show cars being driven, but would it be possible to dredge up images of different aspects of Group B? Routes, fans, startlines, or even a particular part of a car...? Even some some maintenance shot with a couple of spanners & tyres lying around, or... well, anything that could fill in a bit more of the picture. No? bobrayner (talk) 17:58, 2 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Possibly but this is an article on a group of cars, not its culture, so fans and routes may not make sense. Rally Wonk (talk) 01:14, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Photos
I think there is a need of more sources here. Don't get me wrong: groupbrally.com is good, but it is used to much as a source here... 206.116.134.81 (talk) 06:28, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Narrow the scope
The article, ostensibly about Group B racing, covers much more material about several other groups. Perhaps this excess information should be moved to different pages.Winston Spencer (talk) 13:26, 22 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I've removed the section on Group 2 and 4 with Audi's four-wheel drive entry. Not pertinent and have their own articles. Rally Wonk (talk) 01:13, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

1986 Henri Toivonen and Markku Alen crash - Fuel cell
"Toivonen and co-driver Sergio Cresto were found outside the car, they were thrown out and rolled over by car." (sic, now corrected), but then it says: "Simply using a racing fuel cell in place of the fuel tank may have saved them." Erm...how?Yevad (talk) 20:41, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Vandalism
>Group S rules would have limited car engine power to 300 hp (225 kW). To encourage innovative designs, ten examples of a car would have been required for homologation, rather than the 200 required for Group B.

200? That doesn't sound right. Somebody made a typo or something. Can anyone find the right number and correct that? --167.58.99.84 (talk) 14:28, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


 * 200 is true and verifiable in the regulations. Rally Wonk (talk) 01:16, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

FIA banned Group B 1986?
Perhaps in the WRC? Group B was permitted even in 1997 according to the FIA, although a more specific WRC rule narrows it to Group A and B. Still, a good source for the repeated claim is required. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rally Wonk (talk • contribs) 23:16, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Table colours
I've removed a few redundant row colours from the cars table, some were too close to decipher, one didn't have entries. However, I also removed: There is no such thing as semi-homologation, but I'm not sure how these differ. Then, maybe a car could be specifically designed for rally but not so good in circuits, not clear. There's also no source for much of this. There is no source used for 'mainstream high-volume models for homologation'. I read about the Lada 2105 from the source given that it was no less of a derived/special build then the above. --Rally Wonk (talk) 16:22, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Group B cars, specifically designed to compete in the class
 * Semi-homologated cars, based on existing production models and made especially to pass homologation
 * Cars that used mainstream high-volume models for homologation

Group B racing is often remembered in popular racing culture as a safety nightmare, which lead to it's cancellation
This article briefly mentions the safety concerns and accidents that lead to FIA cancelling all Group B racing but since that is a major part of it's legacy along with some of the amazing race cars that came out of group B racing, it needs either have a section in the main body of the article discussing the safety issue with group B races and/or something added to the Legacy section on the safety issue. If we look at the The Isle of Man TT (aka Tourist Trophy races), a motorcycle race known for safety issues, you see it has a section of the subject of safety (of the race). We should adopt a similar model IMO for this article. 2600:1700:56A0:4680:FC14:8B92:FC9F:4B19 (talk) 21:04, 18 August 2022 (UTC)