Talk:Guillaume de Machaut/Archive 1

Name
de Machaut is not usually considered part of his name, is it? The French Wikipedia article refers to him as Guillaume de Machaut throughout, and I've also seen him called simply Guillaume. Machaut is his hometown. If in English Machaut is usually taken as his name, the point could be raised in the article. John FitzGerald 18:07, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree it doesn't make much sense, but he is usually refered to as Machaut. There are other composers whose birthplaces are used as though they were surnames; for instance, Palestrina. Rigadoun 23:43, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, well. I guess we don't have to conform to French usage, and obviously de Machaut verges on being a last name. Santiago Ramón y Cajal is called Cajal in innumerable English-language textbooks, too. John FitzGerald 17:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

He's usually referred to as Machaut, as Beethoven and Palestrina are. And as for his birthplace, I have already amended the fact that he most likely was not born in Machaut.Anderfreude 06:29, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Birth Missing?
Sorry if I'm not following protocol; I'm not really sure how to post... Any ways, the birth of Machaut has been confirmed. Scientists saw his name in a book during an excavation and it said 1304. But anyways, I don't expect it to be updated that quickly because it only got confirmed on July 17.


 * Would you please cite your source on this? Thanks.  Antandrus  (talk) 14:53, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I kinda forgot the site, but it was on MSN Encarta...


 * And Also, I just rechecked. The guy was named maclaut, so I guess I was wrong.  Sorry for the false contribution. --154.20.102.96 04:50, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

He achieved a post in 1324 which would have required him to be in his early 20s. From that, the date of c.1300-02 is generally accepted.Anderfreude 06:27, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

There is no parody
Can you clarify this? It might seem that "No parody has been made on the basis of this mess", although I understand that it probably should be read "This mess does not contain parody on basis of other works". I don't know much about this work, and I think it is even more confusing to some others who know generally less about music than me.217.159.182.51 10:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It has been clarified. Rigadoun (talk) 16:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Poetry Works in English?
Does anyone know where we can find any English versions/translations of his poetry works, as listed on the article? 71.34.228.129 (talk) 22:44, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * There are a number of translations in the notes for The Art of Courtly Love, an Angel recording by the Early Music Consort, David Munrow, director. HTH, Pete Tillman (talk) 03:46, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Ferrell-Vogue MS link to DIAMM
There are full-colour, high quality zoomable images available on the internet FOR FREE at The Digital Image Archive of Medieval Music. This is not a commercial website, nor would a link to it constitute any sort of marketing.

The Ferrell-Vogue MS is one of the 18 or so extant Machaut manuscripts and as such should be included in the External Links section.

If you would like to view the DIAMM website and confirm that this is an academic project, not a commercial enterprise, please visit the website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.26.19.138 (talk) 14:43, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe the link should indeed be there. I've contacted the user who reverted your edits, asking for an explanation of their actions. --Jashiin (talk) 17:49, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It appears I was mistaken. Active Banana   ( bananaphone  18:18, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Vocal Kyrie
The ogg of the Kyrie of his Messe de Nostre Dame is an instrumental version. Is there a vocal version? This would illustrate his strange sounding (to us) music better. Xxanthippe (talk) 07:06, 9 May 2013 (UTC).

When one googles Guillaume de Machaut, the usual brief synopsis pops up, with a little portrait; the portrait looks 18th century, and I can't help wondering if it is of Machault d'Arnouville, the fiscal administrator under Louis XV, although it doesn't especially resemble the portrait of the latter (in old age) that goes with his proper article. The portrait of Machaut in his actual article, from one of his MSS, is of course authentic, and might well have been used for the little thumbnail as well. Nicholas Wickenden — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.181.9.89 (talk) 08:46, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Machaut portrait
Sorry, I forgot to put a heading on the note I just sent in, and it looks as if it belongs to the previous contribution, which it doesn't. Apologies. Nicholas Wickenden — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.181.9.89 (talk) 08:48, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Neutrality
I am currently evaluating this article for a school assignment and would like to give some feedback about the article's neutrality. In the Poetry section, it is stated that "Machaut did much to perfect and codify these fixed forms." It is also stated that"Machaut was a master of elaborate rhyme schemes." Based on what I have learned about Wikipedia and its focus on neutrality, the use of the words "perfect" and "master" may not be completely neutral in this context. They make it sound like an opinion is being shared and the person/group that holds the opinion is not identified. From my understanding, the lead statement is neutral because it acknowledges that "many musicologists" hold the opinion and the claim is backed up with references. Feel free to let me know if anyone agrees/disagrees. I'd appreciate the feedback. Ben Novotny (talk) 20:15, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I doubt that it would be difficult to find sources to corroborate the use of the words "perfect" (in this case used as a verb) and "master", so that neutrality is not really the issue, but you are absolutely correct that none of this material in the body of the article is verified by any source at all. This needs to be addressed, thank you for calling attention to it.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 00:54, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reply. I will keep an eye out for sources. Ben Novotny (talk) 22:06, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Fear of water.
Hello, I recently saw a small war on whether he had a fear of water. I think it is very important, as the only article confirming this has recently been deleted. TheRealELander (talk) 14:33, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! I saw it, then it was deleted. I wanted to add it here, to make sure it stayed. 71.10.184.86 (talk) 14:35, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Well, I guess that article wasn't credible. 71.10.184.86 (talk) 14:38, 16 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The link you have provided as a source doesn't go anywhere, and the actual Brittanica article does not have this information. In any case, using one's songs to determine their fears is problematic and dubious. I have no idea if this is trolling as I haven't looked further into the information, but just think about it: even if he said this in one of his works – "I am afraid of water" – why would that mean anything? Who says he's talking about himself or telling the truth? The same issues arise when attempting to use surplus of information from the songs of Troubadours and Trouvères to uncover actual, biographical information – these aren't reliable, secondary, sources. Aza24 (talk) 15:54, 16 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes. You need reliable sources, otherwise it's original research which we're not supposed to do. Antandrus (talk) 16:28, 16 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi. It's me. I guess I misread the article or something. I will refrain from editing this page. GuillameDeMachautWaterFear (talk) 16:33, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Well, I guess that's over. TheRealELander (talk) 16:37, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi there! I know this has been long solved, but this seems interesting to me. A small argument like this on Wikipedia interests me. I was wondering if there was some way I could get in contact with the one who started this? I want to see if they got a screenshot of the article they saw. Just to see if it's real. Thanks! 888idouxe (talk) 19:01, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi, this wasn't really an argument; the accounts TheRealELander, 71.10.184.86 and GuillameDeMachautWaterFear are almost certainly the same person or persons working together outside of WP, see Sockpuppet investigations/TheRealELander/Archive. These users were most likely trolling (most blantently evidenced by the user name "GuillameDeMachautWaterFear"), but Antandrus and I decided to WP:AGF regardless; I'm not sure there is anything to be gained by discussing it with one of these users further. Aza24 (talk) 00:39, 31 March 2021 (UTC)