Talk:Guns don't kill people, people kill people

Requested move 9 July 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: move the article to Guns don't kill people, people kill people at this time, per the discussion below. Of course, it may make sense to create redirects from other plausible wordings. Dekimasu よ! 06:37, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Guns don't kill → Guns don't kill, people kill – This is an article about a slogan and the title is not any one of the variants of the slogan. Srnec (talk) 02:34, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * , this had crossed my mind while creating and expanding the article. I think this is an uncontroversial move and does not require discussion. What may require discussion is whether the title should be "Guns don't kill, people kill" or "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". (Now that the article has some structure, it shouldn't be too hard to decide whether the shorter version is more suitable or the longer one.) However I think you should go ahead with the move you have suggested without much of a discussion. What do you think? FacetsOfNonStickPans (talk) 04:21, 9 July 2022 (UTC)


 * If you (the creator) think it is uncontroversial, then I will just move it. My own preference would be for Guns don't kill people, people kill people, which I think is the most popular form. What do you think? Srnec (talk)
 * Other popular variants include "Guns don't kill people, people do", and "Guns don't kill, people do". —&#8288;&#8202;&#8288;BarrelProof (talk) 21:41, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

On the basis of the article in its current state, the below table is a quick compilation of most of the citations which use the phrase and its variations relevant to the title of the article. Two things need to be considered,


 * 1) The number of citations where the phrase/variation is a passing mention
 * 2) The number of citations where the phrase/variation is the or one of the main argument/s or considered to some length

On the basis of both points, the resulting title of the article is "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". FacetsOfNonStickPans (talk) 06:07, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

History and usage section.
The following does not seem to have any connection to the subject. There doesn't seem to be any citation that shows relevance or WP:DUE weight...
 * The ancient Roman senator Seneca is credited with Moral letters to Lucilius. In letter 87, he wrote, "30. Certain men answer this objection as follows: 'You are mistaken if you ascribe disadvantages to riches. Riches injure no one; it is a man's own folly, or his neighbor's wickedness, that harms him in each case, just as a sword by itself does not slay; it is merely the weapon used by the slayer. Riches themselves do not harm you, just because it is on account of riches that you suffer harm.' 31. I think that the reasoning of Posidonius is better: he holds that riches are a cause of evil, not because, of themselves, they do any evil, but because they goad men on so that they are ready to do evil. For the efficient cause, which necessarily produces harm at once, is one thing, and the antecedent cause is another." His first statement has been misappropriated for many centuries in favor of war production. Though his second statement says that the first is a fallacy, it has been less prominent than its pair.

For now I'm only adding a CN tag. DN (talk) 19:55, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Since there is no citation, response or discussion with regard for inclusion of this uncited and seemingly unrelated content, I am removing it as UNDUE and without consensus. DN (talk) 08:15, 15 December 2023 (UTC)