Talk:Guoxia

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Where next?
It's disturbing to find a blatant copyvio that's sat here for seven years unnoticed; I'll take a look at other edits from the same editor. Though I've written a couple of lines here based on Hendricks, I have zero confidence that this breed exists. In particular, this source seems to suggest that this is just historic name for Chinese dwarf horses. Or, based on the distribution, it could be synonymous with the Debao Pony mentioned in this source (but also not reported to DAD-IS). What's for sure is that it's beyond me to work out;, , do you have any ideas? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 09:18, 1 October 2014 (UTC)


 * All Icould find that wasn't a mirror of wiki or Hendricks (and even this might be, just rewritten) was this. If there is a "Chinese dwarf horse" that is some sort of miniature horse, I'd be comfortable doing an appropriate content review, possibly even a (gasp! dare I say it?) move to a more descriptive title and so on.  Do we know anyone who does work on Chinese wiki who could check Chinese sources to see what they have? Hendricks is weak, but she usually doesn't make up stuff out of her imagination.  I like to try to preserve these articles if there is anything hopeful there.    Montanabw (talk)  14:21, 1 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Dear Justlettersandnumbers, yes you are right; the so-called Chinese Guoxia pony does not exist (at least as a defined breed anyway). The term "Guoxia" horse is literally means the miniature horses in southwestern China in general, rather than a defined breed. The use of this name for the modern-day Chinese miniature horse actually sourced from the 1981 field journal of the discoverer of this horse, Wang Tie Quan (王铁权) (1). By that time apparently Wang do not have a definite name for this newly discovered pony, thus placed with the name "Guoxia" pony as a reference of the miniature sized horses found in Ancient China. Hendricks might have obtained the information from Wang's field journal and write it as if it is a defined breed, contributing to the confusion of this breed in English sources. There are actually several populations of this Guoxia horses exist in southwestern China, but even in Chinese sources very few reliable sources are available. As in 2011 there are two "Guoxia" pony being recognized as defined breed by Chinese government, which are the Debao Pony (德保矮马) and Yunnan Pony (云南矮马) (not to be confused with the domestic Yunnan horse as defined by Hendricks, or the extinct species). The Hendricks source is seriously outdated, and the current Guoxia Pony as defined in English sources is actually the Debao Pony known today in China (2).


 * While regarding the Guoxia Pony being the historic name, yes Guoxia is the historic name for this miniature horse, which at that time do not have the concept of "breed" as we know today. The term "Guoxia" actually sourced from "Records of the Three Kingdom (Volume 30)" (which is available through Chinese Wikisource) where they have mentioned: "果下馬高三尺，乘之可於果樹下行，故謂之果下" (translated as: Guoxia Pony, with height of 3 Chinese feet, when rode they can passed under a fruit tree, hence being called Guoxia [under the fruit tree])" (3). Later works such as Book of Han further described the presence of this small horse (4). Now the term "Guoxia Pony" is no longer exist in Chinese literature as a defined breed, but rather as a general term to describe miniature horses in China (1)(2).


 * Thus based on my findings, I suggest the name of "Guoxia Pony" should be updated into "Debao Pony".


 * References:
 * (1) 王铁权, 2012. 情系马学五十年 - 王铁权先生作品选编.  中国农业科学技术出版社.
 * (2) 国家畜禽遗传资源委员会, 2011. 中国畜禽遗传资源志： 马驴驼志. 中国农业出版社.
 * (3) 陳壽. 三国志·卷三十： 烏丸鮮卑東夷傳.  Available at:  (Accessed 23 November 2017)
 * (4) 班固. 汉书·卷六十八： 霍光金日磾傳.  Available at:  (Accessed 23 November 2017)


 * P.S. Sorry as I am an absolute newbie in contributing Wikipedia, I do not know how to do proper referencing. But I think I have some knowledge and resources which might clear up the confusion of this horse. 125.253.98.150 (talk) 14:24, 22 November 2017 (UTC)