Talk:Gurre-Lieder

Comment
I'm curious as to what evidence there is that the principal influence on Gurre-lieder is Mahler. I don't see that, and I don't believe that Schoenberg had come under Mahler's influence as of 1901. He and Zemlinsky attended a rehearsal for the 3rd symphony (1902), and became Mahlerian converts at that time. I'd say the clearest influence on Gurre-lieder is that of Wagner--especially "Tristan". To a lesser extent, one might argue for the influence of his teacher and musical confidant Zemlinsky, but Wagner is the obvious candidate. Museslave

I've made the two references to Mahler as a definite influence more debatable. (The one about instrumentation is more convincing than the general stylistic one). I've also removed the comment that by 1910 he had 'developed his theories about atonality'. He had composed the first 'atonal' works, certainly, but had at that point little theory to back his practice - that came later. Cenedi (talk) 13:37, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * How would you basically define the (obvious) difference between Wagner and Mahler influence? -- megA (talk) 11:51, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Why such a huge orchestra?
Has Schönberg ever talked about why he chose to score it for such a huge orchestra? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.216.138.66 (talk) 23:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Orchestral Interlude in Part 1 missing & some minor formatting issues
Added the Interlude as Part 1, No.11 and corrected some german orthography --Michael Petersen (talk) 15:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

190 persons on stage?
The orchestra alone is 150, which would leave 40 for the large chorus AND the three male choruses together. That can't be right. 250 to 300 seems more likely. -- megA (talk) 12:09, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I seem to have read somewhere that in several of the performances he conducted Schoenberg had 500 singers in the male chorus alone. Obviously it's not done with that many nowadays, but huge choruses were more the norm in the late 19th-early 20th centuries. Cenedi (talk) 13:27, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The choruses have to compete with the large orchestra, so a size of about 250 for large chorus as well as for the male chorus wouldn't be far off, IMO. Oh, as I see I wrote that already. -- megA (talk) 11:49, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

James Machlis (Introduction to Contemporary Music, 1978) puts the number of performers onstage at around 400. 68.40.197.121 (talk) 00:51, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

For comparison, look at Mahler's 8th symphony, that has a much smaller orchestra, and reaches 1000 performers with choir. I would imagine that the performers could easily reach 500 if not more, especially given the fact a fourth choir is recommended --86.134.72.36 (talk) 22:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Part Two??
I'm confused about Part Two. Is there one song in it (that is poorly formatted), or did someone just replace the list with some random German? Helixer ( hábleme ) 01:23, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "The brief second part consists of just one song in which the bereft and distraught Waldemar accuses God of cruelty". Or at least, that is what it says in the article.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 01:32, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Hyphenation ?
Why is the title hyphenated? Every other source (including the Universal Edition score) has "Gurrelieder" (without a hyphen). 2A02:1810:2423:3700:5C39:4195:5DA1:A64E (talk) 20:25, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Chains
Whereabouts in the piece are the iron chains played? I confess I struggle to hear them.

And has any other composer used them? PhilUK (talk) 18:01, 22 June 2024 (UTC)


 * @PhilUK I don't have the score to hand but they're in part 3 when the dead rise from their graves, before the summer wind. They can be distinctly heard in the EMI Berlin/Rattle and DG Vienna/Abbado (live!) recordings. If memory serves I think Varèse may have used chains, in either Hyperprism or Amerique. Jon (talk) 23:01, 22 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Many thanks! I will listen again with the score open. PhilUK (talk) 10:48, 29 June 2024 (UTC)