Talk:Guy Lafleur

Name
Just in case people wonder, I moved the page from "Guy LaFleur" to "Guy Lafleur" because, in the French language, in Quebec or France, names like "Lafleur" do not take a second capital letter. Despite the fact that it seems widespread (probably based on the celtic Mc and Mac), the American custom of putting a second majuscule on the name of Franco-Americans, people with Quebecois descent, is not correct, at least not in the original French speaking context. --Liberlogos 00:48, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Article seems to have partiality problems
Hey there, sorry to do this anonymously but this is the first time I've ever made one of these comments. I was reading this article was troubled by some comments and lack of professionalism. For example, from the introduction "one of the greatest and most popular players ever to play professional ice hockey"; I just read the Gretzky article and the contributor there (eventually) admirably refrained from making hyperbolic comment like this.
 * Well then maybe you should add that "hyperbolic" comment to the Gretzky page too. That fact is... A fact, at the opposite side of whatever mathematical slope you'd like it to take. Guy Lafleur was the best player of the 70's, the first one to score 50+ goals during many years in a row. He broke numerous NHL records, until Gretzky The Great One came in town... ;-). No offence, but this should be an encyclopedia, it is neither some stats magazine nor an editorial article trying to revision history towards the taste of the day... HawkFest

This also sets the tone for the rest of the article, with "he played with a thrilling style that marked him out as the most exciting professional hockey player of his era and, arguably, of all time". I think you guys call this a POV problem, implying that the author's Point Of View is interfering with imparting a neutral tone. Even if it's not, the subjectiveness of the statement makes it nearly impossible to prove one way or another. I would suggest either mediating the enthusiasm of these lines or simply removing them entirely.
 * Well imho you're right : though I know for them to be true to reality, the article should illustrate its statements, or at least give some reference. On the other hand, the wording is quite clear : one of the best is a truth, and the most exciting professional hockey player of his era is also perfectly true, this is not some POV : stats are there to illustrate these facts with numbers, and myriads of different sources of articles, books, etc., can undeniably support these attributes. The same goes for Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe and Maurice Richard. Note : correct me if I am wrong, but I guess you didn't have the chance to witness Lafleur's play during the 70's, else you would've not write what you wrote. HawkFest


 * The problem is the word "exciting". Unless "exciting" has some technical definition in hockey that I'm not aware of that's fairly objective, this is CLEARLY POV. If you can get people at the time who were calling him that, then you can make the statement "Observers at the time called him the most exciting player [citation]". 21:31, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

The statistical and historical breakdown is fine, I have no problem with that, and for the most part it's a good, descriptive article.

In terms of lack of professionalism I think the line "he borrowed it for the weekend without telling anyone to show his friends back home in Thurso where he set it out on his front lawn for all his neighbors to see!" is at fault. I'm trying to think of any cases in an encyclopedia that would require an exclamation mark (outside of a quote) and can't think of a single one. Would remove the bang and potentially reword the sentence so it's a bit less admiring.
 * I understand what you mean now : admiring does the job :). You're right, it looks like a newspaper article the day after a victory, or like a tabloïd biography... I think that modifying some details here and there would do the job (like exclamation marks, or the fact of not writing as an objective outsider who would simply depict how people adulated one individual, and why)...HawkFest

One last thing that someone might consider adding is Guy's attempts to re-enter the public consciousness with endorsements (some kind of juice) and maybe mention the "flower power" phenomenon.
 * That would be interesting, though much more subjective than just writing that one of the most exciting players ever to play hockey was one of the most exciting players ever to play hockey... HawkFest


 * How'd that be subjective? If it simply was a phenomenon, even a phenomenon people disagree on, then it's fine. 65.98.205.92 (talk) 21:56, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the punctuation issue is correct. Exclamation marks experience very little use in academic or objective writing. It is, however, difficult to discuss an athlete bearing such accomplishment without being a bit subjective. Perhaps a reasonable solution is to change "one of the best" to "considered by many to be one of the best" or "the most exciting professional hockey player of his era" to "many fans praised Lafleur as the most exciting player of his era," or whatnot. As much as I love Guy Lafleur, I retain enough rationality to realize that statements like "one of the best" or "the most exciting" are not facts. They are arguments. I certainly believe those statements to be true, but I'm sure many people would argue that Bobby Orr was the most exciting player of that era, or, in Lafleur's later years, Wayne Gretzky. Again, I would agree with those arguments supporting Lafleur, but I would never call them facts. It is a fact, on the other hand, that many people consider him one of the best players ever, so simply altering the statements in question in that nature will solve this problem.MikeFlynn 02:26, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh try reading the source already cited on the page: "Known as one of the greatest right wingers ever to play the game and one of the most exciting offensive players of all time" -- Legends of Hockey This article's tone could be improved but it's not a POV battleground so I'll remove the tag. Canuckle (talk) 12:06, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Years on, nothing seems to have changed. It's time to go through this article and introduce a sense of balance to it, whilst excising the heavy POV tendencies. Hushpuckena (talk) 10:54, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:GuyLafleur-bookcover.jpg
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Citations & References
See Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the  tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 09:34, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Nickname
Saving nickname for future use "The Flower" -Djsasso (talk) 22:15, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

his personal life
he had fun in  ways  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.73.77.254 (talk) 18:20, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

biased, biased, biased
This needs to be flagged...Obviously penned by a Hab homer. I don't know how to do that or else I would. Brendinooo (talk) 05:25, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you have any specific examples and possible changes? It looks fine to me. Dbrodbeck (talk) 12:06, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

"widely regarded as one of the most naturally gifted and popular players ever to play professional ice hockey." - no citation "scoring an amazing 130 regular season goals" - amazing? "The Habs' astute General Manager, Sam Pollock," - astute? "but by 1974 had developed his trademark smooth skating style and scoring touch." - not very encyclopedic... The whole thing feels like a narrative, one that's very much in favor of Montreal's beloved player. Brendinooo (talk) 19:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * well on the most naturally gifted, you could change it to 'one of the top players' or some such thing, and then cite the hockey news top 100 players of all time. He had a smooth skating style, so a reference there would be easy enough to find.  The popularity thing could go, but I imagine a reference could be found.  Astute does not begin to describe Pollock, but it would be hard to find  a ref.  If you feel you have changes that would make the article better feel free to post versions here an users can discuss them.  Dbrodbeck (talk) 20:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Image?
In doing an image search I found this one, which is from the um, Russian wiki. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:GuyLafleur_montreal.jpg I don't see any free images of Lafleur out there. Any takers on whether or not this image can be used here? Echoedmyron (talk) 02:21, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It is clearly a copywritten image and is labelled as fair use on the Russian Wiki. Being that the subject is still alive it wouldn't be a valid fair use on the English Wiki. And yes I know this is a reply to a very old comment. :) -DJSasso (talk) 13:56, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Guy Guy Guy
So would Guy Guy Guy / Guy, Guy, Guy be good to document, and likely to be linked? The funeral coverage of each of the networks keeps mentioning the triplicate to refer to him. And Yvan Cournoyer also made it part of his eulogy -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 02:15, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Help for those across the pond
It took me a long time to work out who 'the Habs' are. An explanation that it is the nickname of the Canadiens would have saved a lot of vexation. Bringmetheheadofalfredocockroach (talk) 09:27, 23 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @Bringmetheheadofalfredocockroach: Since the term only shows up a handful of times and is rarely used in other biographies (e.g. Maurice Richard), I've replaced it altogether, which avoids having to work in an explanation. Thank you for the input! Yee no   (talk) 03:33, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Not strictly on topic, but, as a youngster in the UK in the 70s, I became quite familiar with the name 'Guy Lafleur'. Now he seems to have been entirely overlooked in favour of Wayne Gretzky. Which was better? Bringmetheheadofalfredocockroach (talk) 05:57, 25 January 2023 (UTC)