Talk:Guy Sebastian/Archive 1

Picture
Ha! The picture on this page is not actually Guy Sebastian... See for one of many examples I found using Google Image search Ranglin 10:45, 10 November 2005 (UTC).

Album description
I removed this:

"Beautiful Life is known as another Classic Guy Album, and the most under-rated album of the year."

It's a very biased statement because not everyone likes his music. Harry** 13:43, 2 September 2006.

Things to do
Change 'It Takes Two' section to past tense. Remove all biased non-verifiable content from Album sections. Rearrange section details as lot of non Australian Idol information is contatined within that section. Redo Discography section to remove blatent plugs. Andystar23 00:06, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
Several incidents of vandalism have come up on this page, especially in the personal life section. Can we protect this page somehow? I reverted one edit and within minutes it was vandalised again. I don't know how to request protection.Marnifrances 10:33, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Viginity
Should someone include something about his decision to remain a virgin until marriage?10:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

home church
um his home church is actually Paradise Community Church in Adelaide isnt it Bold text He is also a member of the Hillsong Church.

Planetshakers
There should be a bigger mention of his time with Planetshakers.

lynda Morrrish —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.178.141.9 (talk) 10:43, 27 December 2006 (UTC). ???


 * agreed, we need to also include albums he did with planetshakers in the discog section, cos he did a fairly decent amount of content with him, and he was a member of the band, not a guest

Fair use rationale for Image:GuySebastianCloserToTheSunAlbumCover.jpg
Image:GuySebastianCloserToTheSunAlbumCover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:23, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Ref fix
See the references section at the bottom of the article and fix ref #8. -- ALLSTAR  echo 17:25, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. --- RockMFR 02:03, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Images

 * I agree that this article has far too many images. It takes a long time to download on slower connections (and those do still exist). The first things that need to go are the images of the album covers. They aren't free-use and do not have rationales for inclusion here. In most cases, aren't acceptable for inclusion in biographies. File:WYD-2008.JPG can go as well. It doesn't add anything to the article's understanding. The heading "Biography" is redundant and needs to be changed. The whole article is a biography. The Idol discussion should have its own heading. My very hasty 2 cents worth. Wildhartlivie (talk) 17:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi there

I take responsibility for adding the album covers here on this article - I thought this was OK to do as I usually go by other articles to model on - I will remove them as they are not allowed. I have also noted comments about images on other articles, again I thought this was OK to do as it linked people together. I will spend sometime in another session looking at these also to see what is over enthusiasm on my part.

Cheers, Diane

--Diane 19:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi Diane, It's OK. You don't have to feel like you should take responsibility. A lot of articles go through a teething stage and there's always the chance to make changes. Nobody would expect you to know about the album covers, and there are still a lot of articles using them incorrectly. Rossrs (talk) 21:00, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Rossrs - it is all still a learning curve for me - I still cannot figure out how to sign properly on a talk page even though I have been told how to do it? Is there a wiki link that gives instructions on how to do this properly. Thanks Rossrs.

Diane 21:45, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll reply on your talk page. :-) Rossrs (talk) 08:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I have reduced the images on the Guy Sebastian page to 10. I would really like these ones to stay if possible. Two of them (The World Vision one and the one of him performing with David Ryan Harris at SXSW) took weeks AND weeks of emailing by me to gain permission from the copyright holders for their use. The images with Steve Cropper and Donald "Duck" Dunn are very relevant in my opinion as this collaboration which developed into friendship was a turning point in his career which led to many things, including his upcoming release in the US. Now the images have been reduced I think the remaining ones add to rather than detract from the article. Hoping this reduction is acceptable.

Natbelle (talk) 03:54, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Honest opinion - from a purely aesthetic viewpoint, I think there are still too many images but I respect your choices and the effort and dedication you have put into this article, so I won't object.  It looks a lot better, and fortunately this is an article that is being developed, and as it grows, the images will sit more neatly within the text.   At the moment, I do feel they kind of dominate, and as his career continues we'll end up with more new images, which will then mean some of the older ones being removed to be replaced by the newer ones.   The article is heading in the right direction, and that's good to see.   Rossrs (talk) 08:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, just another observation.  All the quotations seem to be in italics which is not the way it is usually done.   Short quotes are usually given in quotation marks, and longer quotes in block form.   The italics also tend to hide the album titles.   MOS:QUOTE gives some information and    Rossrs (talk) 08:44, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice Rossrs. I will check out the quotations links and fix that area up. I am actually working at reducing the content of his page as well, to remove some things of minimal importance, in which case some of the images are likely to be removed as the subject matter they refer to is removed. Natbelle (talk) 11:58, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Origin
We should place his origin as I know he is part Sri Lankan Tamil. Would someone be able to add this in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pendotigers (talk • contribs) 02:37, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Pendotigers. It does state his origin. In background information it states he was born in Malaysia, and in the Early life section it states this.

"Guy Sebastian was born in Klang, Malaysia on the 26th of October 1981. His father Ivan is of Sri Lankan descent, while his mother Nellie has an English and Portuguese background and was raised in India. The family moved to Melbourne, Australia in 1988."

I have no idea if his father was Sri Lankan Tamil, so cannot really add the Tamil reference as there is no information avaliable to prove this. But it does state very clearly his Sri Lankan heritage.

Natbelle (talk) 02:05, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

whilst it would be fascinating if Sebastian was a Burgher, I just cant see how him having parents that have Sri Lankan and European roots - make him a Burgher...

I have quoted a section here directly off Burgher people

"The Burghers were legally defined by law in 1883, by the Chief Justice of Ceylon, Sir Richard Ottley, given before the Commission which was appointed in connection with the establishment of a legislative Council in Ceylon. They determined that Burghers were defined as those whose father was born in Sri Lanka, with at least one European ancestor on one's direct paternal side, regardless of the ethnic origin of one's mother, or what other ethnic groups may be found on the father's side. Because of this definition, Burghers almost always have European surnames (mostly of Portuguese, Dutch and British origin, although it is not uncommon to also find German, French or Russian surnames)"

so I dont think it appropriate to have him categorised on his main article as Burgher people. Diane (talk) 05:25, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Lead section
It's too long, and too detailed. Too much detail about chart statistics - Delta and Kylie don't need a mention there, for example. Suggest taking a look at WP:LEAD and reading through the lead sections for some of the music related biographies at WP:FA. I applaud the people that are putting so much effort into keeping this article updated and comprehensive - if only all articles were treated with the degree of care shown here - but the lead needs to be a summary of the article, not a rundown of statistics. Rossrs (talk) 15:58, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I have shortened the introduction by 3 kilobytes, by removing some of the chart information and by rewording. I have kept the sales and accreditation information, as I think that is an important part of a musician's life. If they didn't actually sell cds they wouldn't last very long in the music industry. The introduction is now reflective of the article I think. It includes sales, his work with other musicians of importance, some of his main awards and nominations, overseas charting and accreditations, and his future release in the US. Hope it passes inspection. Natbelle (talk) 15:44, 26 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it's an improvement. Much better.  I agree that sales etc is crucial for a musician, but from a Wikipedia viewpoint,  the most important thing is that it must be a summary of the article. (per WP:LEAD)   For example, John Farnham is mentioned in the lead but not in the article.  Anyone looking at the lead could think it's an interesting point, and then go searching through the article to see in discussed in more detail, but it's not there.   There should not be anything in the lead that's not in the article, so perhaps updating the article to include mention of Farnham would be a good thing.  I know you've spent a lot of time working on this, and you've done a really good job.   The better the article gets, the more it needs to be looked at sentence by sentence, even if that appears to be nit-picky - it's just to ensure that it can be as good as possible.   Rossrs (talk) 01:06, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


 * No worries Rossrs. I actually mentioned John as a courtesy, as as far as ARIA is concerned Guy holds the record for #1 singles for a male Australian vocalist, because only one of John's #1 singles is ARIA, the rest were before ARIA came into existance. On the ARIA site itself in its September Chart facts it gives Guy the credit for the most #1 singles for a male Australian. September Chart Facts


 * I felt that was disrespectful to John, as just because his #1 singles were not ARIA #1's does not make them less significant in Australian chart history. That is the only reason I have mentioned John. I do believe Guy's four #1's are worth mentioning in the lead, but really felt I should give credit to John as having one more, even if ARIA doesn't acknowledge them. I will add the fact that Guy's latest #1 in an ARIA record, and a mention of John's record in chart history into the Like It Like That section. I really wasn't trying to get hits from John aficionados. It was purely to pay respect to John. I have always admired him a great deal.
 * Natbelle (talk) 06:47, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Update on Lead section and images. The Lead has now been shortened further, and I think it covers the criteria of being "a summary of the important aspects of the subject". Images are now down to 7 including the profile photo. Also I have redone the references to fit Wikipedia guidlines (writer credits etc).
 * Natbelle (talk) 01:15, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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Associated Acts
Just noting that people that are listed in the infoxbox as an associated act probably should be removed according to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_musical_artist#Associated_ guidelines.

A relevant addition would be Planetshakers as Guy was a member of the Planetshakers Band where he toured in Australia and internationally with the band. He was a lead vocalist when touring and also sang on recorded multiple albums before becoming a solo artist in 2003. David Ryan Harris should probably also stay as he and Guy have been writing together on different projects since 2004 and Guy's latest album David produced, played on and co-wrote some of the songs on the 2009 released Like It Like That (album).

Anyways, just putting it out their for discussion for regular editors on this article to comment on. :)

--122.104.160.29 (talk) 08:01, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

oops - I have a new computer YAY and forgot I was not logged in so I am 122.104.160.29 --Diane (talk) 08:10, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree Di, I have already removed 3 with very limited association with Guy(Delta Goodrem, Jimmy Barnes and Olivia Newton John). Not quite sure which other ones should remain. Steve Cropper, and The Mgs I think, as they contributed completely to The Memphis Album and toured with him. David Ryan Harris as you said, because he has had a long association with Guy. Really think Paulini, Mýa, Amy Pearson and Jordin Sparks should be removed. And co writing one song on an album like Robin Thicke and Brian Mcknight seems a tenuous link as well. I would cut them as well.


 * I would think along the lines of Steve Cropper, The Mgs, David Ryan Harris, and Planetshakers. Not sure about John Mayer, but as he was involved in 3 songs on the album, perhaps he could stay. But then again maybe not.
 * Natbelle (talk) 08:52, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

OK yeah Natbelle, Steve Cropper definitely.

It would be great to have John Mayer there as he has a presence on LIKE IT LIKE THAT album being involved in 3 - 4 tracks but it is probably a stretch to include him as an associated act - that may change in the future though. --Diane (talk) 09:38, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I will go ahead now and edit out the unsuitable ones, as it is obvious going on the Wipedia guidlines they should not be listed as Associated Acts.
 * Natbelle (talk) 14:06, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Category:People from Selangor
Just putting this out there – I don’t think Guy has any association with People of Selangor ??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_from_Selangor I didn’t want to remove it straight away because the category has always been there for as long as I can remember but I truly think it is incorrect???

--Diane (talk) 06:49, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

I probably should have looked more closely at this, Sebastian was born in Klang, Selangor but moved to Australia when he was six and is an Australian citizen - so maybe it should stay - I have confused myself now.

--Diane (talk) 07:00, 26 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Diane, yes, I think Category:People from Selangor is OK: articles quite often have apparently contradictory categories when the subject is born is one place but is known for residing in another.
 * I took a look at all the categories just now, and the only issue I have is that there's some redundancy: categories like Category:Australian musicians aren't strictly necessary because Guy Sebastian is already in, say, Category:Australian performers of Christian music (which in ultimately within the "Australian musicians" category, by way of Category:Australian musicians by genre). Redundancy doesn't hurt, however, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it...!
 * TFOWR 09:16, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! TFOWR for the feedback - I have been going through a learning curve with regards to music categories and I few things have twigged for me today. --Diane (talk) 10:54, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Headlining
Headlining tours by definition means top billing above other artist/bands at an event where there is a line up of different entertainment acts. These national concert tours have been Sebastian's own national tours where he tours his current album at that point in time and he is the only star in his show so the term headlining is not an appropriate term to use in this context.

However, Sebastian has headlined many charity events where he has top billing when artists and entertainers have gathered together to entertain to raise money for charity.

I have removed the word 'headlining' from the Tours Section as it is not a correct term to use.

If anyone has an objection to this - we can discuss it further here on the talk page.

Cheers --Diane (talk) 20:44, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarifying that Diane. I was a little confused as to why an editor would come in and separate Sebastian's concerts into "Headlining" and "Other concerts"(saying that "Headlining" was for his album tours and the others could go under "Other Tours"), considering all these tours were his own (apart from the Philharmonic Orchestra and Australian Army Band concerts where Sebastian shared equal billing). After the editor did that I thought I would place them all together simply under "Tours" again. When the editor returned and put "Headlining" back in ( with a less than courteous edit summary saying "don't change it you don't own the page!") I then thought the Philharmonic and Australian Army Band tours should be placed under "Joint Tours". Sebastian had support acts at all his own concerts, but everyone has them. They are necessary, but to me the support act should not be classified as another star on the billing unless the concerts are promoted as being combined concerts for more than one act. So under the terms you describe the word headlining should definitely not apply.
 * Natbelle (talk) 00:53, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion
Hey, loving the article, Natbelle is doing a great job! I think that the Discography section should be on top of the Musical Style section. I think it'll look better that way. ozurbanmusic (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 02:12, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You could be right Oz. It should probably come straight after the album sections. Will switch it.
 * Natbelle (talk) 13:26, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I think it would be good if someone can upload another media file on the article but place it in the 'Musical style' section, any Sebastian song relating to what is said in their, like what other musican articles have (Beyonce Knowles, Alicia Keys etc..)

Can I also mention why is there a section for 'Official music videos'?, is it really needed in the article. ozurbanmusic (talk) 02:24, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi ozurbanmusic

These are his official videos I think that they should stay.

Gospel - Guy was a member of an Australian gospel band PlanetShakers, who toured here in Australia and overseas before becoming a solo artist. He was a head vocalist on Planetshaker albums. After becoming a solo artist he put out pop albums but he also wrote and sang on albums put out by his then church - Paradise Community Church. He penned and sang with Paulini Receive the Power a song which was chosen as the World Youth Day official theme song in 2008.

He is definitely a creator of gospel music and has recently said he would love to produce a Guy Sebastian gospel album. I have reverted your edit OZ because gospel music is very much a part of his musical journey. --Diane (talk) 08:27, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree 100 percent with Diane's words. Also there are a number of references already in Sebastian's wiki validating him as a gospel artist. There are references showing his involvement in PlanetShakers, and also references to gospel albums he was involved in, both pre and post idol. These are in the Early Life section. Also there are references to the fact that he sang and was the main songwriter of Receive The Power, a gospel song if I ever heard one. He has also expressed and interest in recording a gospel album in many interviews. To remove that from his genres is totally unacceptable. As for your requirement for more media to validate the Musical genre section, be my guest Ozmusic. The section already has 9 references, and in an article which has 139 references in total it seems a bit pedantic to request more. But if you wish to take the time looking for more feel free. I am at a loss as to what you want supplied anyway. His official videos show he certainly is a pop/R&B/soul singer, along with the references supplied throughout the whole article. As for an interest in recording a Bollywood album, a reference is already supplied for that. It is in his biography on his managament site. He has actually already recorded a Bollywood album for the Indian market, but its release has been delayed due to his American release and promotion. As for Dance he has stated in several interviews he would like to one day do a dance album, and in 2006 he was nominated for an Award at the Dance Music Awards, so some of his music could already be classified as Dance as far as the Dance Music organisation was concerned. And any question of him being pop/R&B/Soul can be dispelled by looking at the references already supplied both in the genre section and throughout the article. As for Soca and Rock, and Jazz, his third album was a mix of all of those, and that fact was remarked on by many reviewers, and also spoken about by Sebastian in interviews at the time. Unfortunately most of those reviews and interviews are no longer online. But if you feel more proof is required for what was stated, go right ahead.
 * Natbelle (talk) 03:59, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Ok, so I thought that the main genres should only be on the main article. But he's genre in Gospel was only for Planetshakers, not as a solo artist. And Receive the Power is only one song in Gospel/Christian music, doesn't mean he's a gospel singer now. So he's said he wanted to make a Gospel album, but he hasn't yet.

In a recent interview this is what Guy had to say: '''TCC: Oftentimes, critics consider an artist to be in a certain genre than the artist does. What do you classify your music as?''' GS: It’s pop music really. Soul, R&B, pop. I’m not gonna fight that, I love pop music. Source - http://thecelebritycafe.com/interview/guy-sebastian-australian-idol-x-factor-08-23-2010

And then I saw on his official myspace page that he's genres are pop, R&B and soul. I just go by the genres Guy says he is, not what the critics or one song says. ozurbanmusic (talk) 06:10, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Oz yes he may have said in some interviews that he is pop, Soul R&B. In many other interviews he has spoken about how much gospel influenced his music. And as I said in my first reply he has recorded gospel music, and it is validated on his page. To say he has only recorded one gospel song is not true. Read the early life section on this very page and you will see this.


 * "He also sang with the then Paradise Community Church Youth Conference Planetshakers, performing both lead and backup vocals in their 2002 and 2003 conferences and albums. After winning Australian Idol he continued his association with Paradise Church, recording on two of their albums, Adore in 2004, and Set Me Free in 2005.".


 * FULLY validated with references. He has also expressed the wish to record a gospel album in the future. He has not only recorded gospel music, and he also has written a number of gospel songs, some of which were recorded on the Paradise Live albums. I believe these things are enough to have gospel as one of his genres. Just a few months ago you wanted to remove Pop from his genres, and would have done so if I had not intervened. The quote from Guy you just used to prove your point shows exactly how premature your idea of removing Pop was back then. Gospel should stay too.


 * Natbelle (talk) 10:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Oops I was wrong then. Then it should stay. Issue solved! ozurbanmusic (talk) 22:26, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit Summary
Dear OZ - you make changes without filling in the edit summary hoping that changes you want, go unnoticed. I undid your deletion of {{WikiProjectBannerShell|blp=yes|1= because not everyone is an experienced editor or experienced viewing visitor and this template gives an explanation as to how ratings are organised on projects that this article is listed on. Cheers --Diane (talk) 08:11, 30 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I too prefer it with all the data showing. I changed it back to that way a few days ago when I noticed it had suddenly changed to the hide format without explanation. I forget to log in and unfortunately also forgot to put an edit summary. Have no idea why Ozurbanmusic prefers it to not show all the information, but on most discussion pages I have looked at the full data is showing. I don't understand why ozmusic thinks it should be hidden, and he gave no reason except citing his opinion that it looked better that way. I like to see the full information shown, and will endevour to keep it that way.


 * Natbelle (talk) 13:13, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Official video section
Have been doing some checking on other musician pages, and have noticed on several of them video sections have been removed due to these rules.

WP:Linkfarm

Wikipedia is not a repository of links.

So in this case I think ozurbanmusic is right, and the videos should not be on the page, and have removed them.

Natbelle (talk) 07:36, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

I have to say I would really have loved this section to stay - but it seems consensus amongst other editors here is that it should be removed and I accept that.

--Diane (talk) 08:47, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Personal life section
So I've noticed Natbelle or DianeSunshineCoast havent undid my revision on creating the Life and career section. I was wandering if the personal life section should be merged into the Life and career section. Just thought I'd discuss it here first. ozurbanmusic (talk) 09:54, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have actually undone the Life an Career heading Oz. You say most musician pages have it. I have found numerous ones that don't. My reasons for removing that heading are as follows.


 * 1. The whole page is about his life and career, as it is a biography. To just put his early life, idol and recordings under that heading doesn't really make sense. What about his other ventures, his charity work, tours ect. Are they not part of his career and life ???


 * 2. Having only those areas under that heading also causes the titles in the "recording" section not make sense. By having a recording section with the album titles as sub headings the titles are self explanitary.


 * "Life and Career" is a superfluous heading which is not needed. Here are some high profile musicians pages which cope very well without a "Life and Career" title to separate their early life and music careers from the rest of their lives.


 * Beyonce Knowles


 * Kelly Clarkson


 * Justin Timberlake


 * Usher


 * I could add many more, but you should get the idea from these.


 * Natbelle (talk) 08:30, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

The reason that I created the Life and career section is because the Early life and career begginings did not look good with those small subheadings. But I see you've seperated the Early life and Australian Idol, which looks good now. The Artistry section looks similar to the Beyonce Knowles article. ozurbanmusic (talk) 09:13, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes I did that after seeing it set out like that on Rihanna's page. One of your ideas I like Oz.


 * Natbelle (talk) 09:33, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. Just wandering if the title Charitable work should be changed to Philanthropy? ozurbanmusic (talk) 20:28, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry Oz, just saw this. I guess most Wiki articles use the term Philanthropy. I have never been fussed on that word. Reminds me of the term for Stamp Collecting - Philately. To me if I was a collector of stamps I would call myself a stamp collector rather than a philatelist. I like to keep things simple, as some people would not even know what philanthropy means. Charitable work is self explanatory without anyone needing to pop into a dictionary to find out what it is. But if you want to change it go ahead as it is in common usage on Wiki.
 * Natbelle (talk) 07:06, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Its ok, I too prefer Chartitable work over Philanthropy. Just asking if it should be changed. ozurbanmusic (talk) 07:48, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Trivia etc.
Adding things like who went to Sebastian's wedding and making a section about a tv gaff is just pointless trivia and is not needed in an biographical article. Also the profile photo does not generally have a caption. Only the images in the main part of an article. Personal Life sections are generally short on most musician articles too. Their careers are the main focus. For this reason I have edited out the recent changes.

Natbelle (talk) 04:42, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It conforms to the WP:BLP policy at least so I see no problem. Regards, —  Ғяіᴆaз'§Đøøм •  Champagne?  • 3:49pm • 04:49, 9 October 2010 (UTC)


 * The point is not that it is true. It is that it is a pointless piece of information in a serious biographical article. Its just fodder. The gaff was funny, but does it really require a paragraph on his wikipedia page. Hardly a very big part of his life and career.


 * Natbelle (talk) 05:16, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you Nat, I removed the information about the X Factor slip up but Fridae's Doom insisted to keep it. The user also moved the personal life section under the Early life and I reverted the edit but the user wanted to keep it there. ozurbanmusic (talk) 06:02, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep Oz. And now we have yearloose coming in saying that because it was in the gossip section of the newspapers (something they did because it was a very funny blooper) that it is required on his wikipedia. How ridiculous is that. Today's Advertiser had a story about the fact that an ice cream seller in New Zealand said when a tourist told him he was from Adelaide "Oh thats where Guy Sebastian comes from". Guess I should add that, and every mention ever made about Sebastian in the gossip sections of the newspapers. We could get the longest biography on Wikipedia before you know it. This was just a funny little mistake that lots of people found funny. Hardly groundbreaking news.

Natbelle (talk) 11:55, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with OzUrbanMusic and with Natbelle - the tv blooper is trivia. Sebastian is a popular celebrity as well as a gifted musician and so he gets constant media coverage. If every time he made the news or was mentioned in the media was recorded in his wiki - his wiki page would be unnecessarily huge.

--Diane (talk) 18:04, 9 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Diane asked me to take a look at the article in an administrative capacity as she felt there was either edit warring or the potential for edit warring. There does, in my view, seem to have been an edit war occurring. Stop! All of you! It's good that there's a discussion taking place, and I've just welcomed a couple of new editors and invited them to join the discussion. It's good, too, that the edit warring does seem to have stopped for now - though I suspect that may more to do with timezones and the human need to sleep ;-) But the countless reverts and counter-reverts mustn't resume again - you all need to continue this discussion, reach a consensus, and then (and only then) make the change. Edit warring is disruptive, and admins have two ways to prevent disruption - they can protect the article, or they can block editors from editing. I'd greatly prefer to do neither, but I will if it's necessary. I believe you're all more than capable of reaching a consensus between yourselves. If that's not possible - consider dispute resolution. I'd recommend raising the issue at a relevant WikiProject, but I'm not sure how relevant the biography, Malaysia, or Australia WikiProjects (or noticeboards) would be for this issue. You might also want to consider the Content Noticeboard or perhaps a "Request for Comment". I'll keep an eye on the article, and you can all feel free to ask me anything. TFOWR 08:32, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Thought I would add more about why I think this paragraph on a tv blooper is not a necessary inclusion in Sebastian's article. And being a person of many words this response will be long. Ғяіᴆaз'§Đøøм says as it conforms with WP:BLP policy it should be on his Wikipedia article. But that very page has a section with a heading of "Wikipedia is not news, or an indiscriminate collection of information". While that refers to people themselves, saying just because someone is in the news doesn't mean they should have a wikipedia article written about them, surely that can be taken a step further to say just because an incident about a celebrity is in the press doesn't mean it is worthy of being included in their Wikipedia article. As I said before, if every time Sebastian was written about in the press was included here the article would be ridiculously long. This was just a slip which caused amusement for the public and the media. If Sebastian was caught with his pants down in a broom closet with Mahogany at the X Factor auditions, and his wife started divorce preceedings, that would be news. He wasn't. She didn't. In fact she found it as funny as everyone else. She tweeted this shortly after Sebastian's gaff.


 * "hahahaahahahahaahahahahaaa!!!"

Now to the only other editor who seems to want it on his page. Yearsloose. They wanted it here so badly that they reverted 4 times in a very short time. He or she has not added to this discussion, despite being invited to. Their response in an edit summary was "The event in question made national news. No more to discuss." The gaff was reported in the press, yes. Mainly in the gossip sections of the newspapers, and on the morning tv and radio shows. Why? Because they found it funny. Not because it was major breaking news or scandal. If the only criteria for being a necessary inclusion to a Wikipedia article is that it was mentioned in the media, then every Wikipedia article should include all media mentions. I can think of many times when celebrities have made the news in Australia and nothing is mentioned on their pages. Here are two examples of this relating to two other Idol contestants. Events which caused lots of media and public response. One caused outrage, the other hilarity.


 * First example : In 2008 another big Australian Idol star was drunk on stage at a major music festival. That particular incident not only received widespread media coverage, but also resulted in hundreds of comments on those newspaper sites, many from people who attended the festival and were disgusted by his behaviour. They are still all over google if you search the artist's name and the word "drunk", so references would be very easy to find to validate the information and the fact that it was a major controversy in his career. The results were that the said artist was forced to make a public apology for his behaviour. And yet there is nothing on his Wikipedia article about this major incident. I think there is far more justification in having that in there than a paragraph about a blooper where Sebastian forgot to say one word ( "away") on his page. Especially as there is already a section on a previous matter involving alcohol on the other person's article. If a silly little blooper is a must have important addition to Sebastian's page then surely that belongs on the other's page.


 * Second example: A recent winner of Australian Idol was used to publicise an initiative by Myspace Music early this year. He appeared on national tv, and newspaper articles and advertising in the Melbourne press was used to publicise a concert by this singer to launch this initiative. Despite the large amount of publicity for this event, only 2 people attended. The media had a field day. It made all the major newspapers and was reported on tv and radio news. The Idol winner himself was so embarrassed he started a twitter rant, including the fact that the concert was at 7.30 in the morning, not 8.30 as the media were reporting and that was the reason he sang to an audience of two. And again nothing appears on his Wikipedia article about this.

What makes Sebastian's funny little gaff more relevant than these two incidents Yearsloose? Why are they not on their pages. Natbelle (talk) 02:31, 11 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Nothing. It's pointless trivia.


 * Although, noting the growing number of such media "gaffes", one can speculate about the possibility that they are actually designed to give tabloid media excuses to provide extra publicity for mass oriented shows. HiLo48 (talk) 03:45, 11 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I didn't look like a stunt. It was exactly the type of stumbling over words that any human can make.  It received a little bit of media publicity on the first day, and then the publicity died pretty much the way it should have died, because the media realizes that it was not a pivotal moment in history.  It was a funny little incident, and it gave a lot of people a bit of a laugh, and something to talk about for a moment, but nothing more than that.  I think both WP:RECENT and WP:UNDUE give good reasons why this sort of information is not relevant and why it should not be included. Rossrs (talk) 09:00, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

twenty ten and who's the girl
Hi, just wondering if someone can create a page for 'twenty ten' (his best of album which was released this weekend) ref/ http://itunes.apple.com/au/album/twenty-ten/id401806959 and his new single 'who's that girl' released november 5 featuring eve (reference : http://itunes.apple.com/au/album/whos-that-girl-feat-eve/id402359692?i=402359823&ign-mpt=uo%3D4 )

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.170.240 (talk) 12:43, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Articles for both the album and single will be created once it has charted. If it doesn't chart, then there is no reason to create one. ozurbanmusic (talk) 23:00, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Sections.
I have joined some sections together. Have noticed on other artist's pages who have released more than 3 or 4 albums that they don't have a separate section for each album (Powderfinger, Kylie Minogue for example). I think it looks better than a lot of small sections. I have joined his first 3 albums under one section, and The Memphis Album and The Memphis Tour into one section as well. Have left his two more recent albums under separate headings, but for now I have added the new album Armageddon into the heading of the Twenty Ten section, until there is more information to add about it.

Natbelle (talk) 12:02, 5 February 2012 (UTC)