Talk:Gwen Cooper/Archive 1

Personality
I am not sure this bit should be here:


 * Russell T. Davies says he's a great admirer of her work, as shown by her appearance in Doctor Who. "It just confirmed to me that she was one of Wales's best-kept secrets," Davies told BBC South Wales.

To me, that is talking about Eve Myles and not Gwen so I am not sure why it is here. I think it would be more at home in the Eve article, however I do think the bit about Gwen being written for Eve should stay in. --GracieLizzie 17:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Getting rid of "Witty, intelligent" in character description
Not that I don't think Gwen's a smart character, but she's definetly one of the least intelligent characters in the main cast, considering that Jack's got 200 years of knowledge, Owen's a doctor, and Tosh is a tech genius. She's smart, but it's not a defining characteristic, and I also don't think we should be relying too much upon information about a character that is supplied by her actress. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.150.175.57 (talk) 08:37, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Gwen /Gwyneth
The article states: "Russell T Davies has stated that two characters are not related." and cites Doctor Who Magazine #378. The quote, "Those are completely different names to me... just two names beginning with 'G'," doesn't actually show that Davies says the two characters are unrelated. I do not get Doctor Who Magazine; can someone who does post a more appropriate quote? --Chris Griswold (  ☎  ☓  ) 08:28, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I've posted the full quote (along with a more accurate citation template). If anyone wants to shorten it, please do so: "George or Gina" probably isn't necessary, but I put it in to get the full flavor of the remark. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 21:52, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

- NO way!! Not related?! but... same name, same actress, same ability to contact ghosts.... Not related?! he could have at least lied and said it as intentional!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mad Cheese Eater (talk • contribs)


 * This is Wales, NOT Sparta. They do things differently there. I mean, you might get on the train to Blaenau FFestiniog, buying your cup of coffee from a girl called Myfanwwy, staring out over the coast of Ynys Mon before delicious ice cream at Cadwallader's.... mmm, Cadwallader's. Gwen has no ability to contact ghosts, don't know where you got that from, and Gwen and Gwyneth may be close in English, but in Welsh they're not. mattbuck 11:05, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Kinda hinted that they are related though, in the last Doctor Who episode. I won't change anything though, lol :D --91.105.81.136 (talk) 19:31, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I was wondering if a picture of Eve Myles playing Gwyneth should be included here saying "Gwyneth is now believed to be an ancestor of Gwen Cooper." 92.20.181.79 (talk) 08:02, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Guns
I've tried to make an edit on this topic but if anyone else can do a better version, please do. It may be common knowledge that not all police officers in the UK (or at least Wales) carry firearms, but for readers in America, Canada, and elsewhere, this might be unusual. I think it needs to be pointed out that, obviously, Gwen's duties as a cop did not involve the use of firearms which is why she, despite being a police officer, has to be schooled in their use by Jack. 23skidoo (talk) 19:33, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * To be fair, we do have firearms units, but regular beat bobbies (as she is seen to be) carry at best a truncheon. Maybe we should just link to the uk polkice and have done with it. mattbuck (talk) 19:43, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Birth Dates
In the first issue of Torchwood Magazine, there is an article called Meet the Team and it gives the birth dates of Gwen Cooper, Owen Harper, Toshiko Sato, and Ianto Jones. Are these dates worth adding to their respective pages here at Wikipedia? I must say though that the magazine gives Toshiko's birth year as 1981 rather than the on-screen birth year of 1975 which had already been established in the Series 1 episode Greeks Bearing Gifts. Could this error be a factor to *not* add these birth dates?–Alan-WK (talk) 15:30, 25 January 2008 (UTC).

Yes. What does it say for Owen? If 1981, then we could consider putting the birth years up for all, excepting we put 1975 for Tosh, 1981 for Owen and leave Jack blank for now [User: Stripey].


 * Well, on the Torchwood website, Owen says 'The passing of Owen Harper (1980-2008) will be deeply mourned...' yadayadayada. And said 1975 before. So, don't trust it. Irrelevant anyway.~ZytheTalk to me! 19:15, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

In Children of Earth Day Two we are also given more information about Gwen --> Birthdate: 16/08/1978, Height: 5'8". Born in Swansea to parents Mary and Geraint Cooper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.253.236.250 (talk) 12:38, 8 July 2009 (UTC)


 * WP:IN-U, fictional characters' birthdates are trivial, in-universe details and aren't relevant to the article. What matters is when she was created, not when she was "born".     Paul    730  19:37, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Time for a name change?
Now that she's officially Gwen Williams and the article addresses her as such, should the name be changed? The Iceman2288 (talk) 18:43, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Do we know that she's taking Rhys' name? I think we need to go by what she'll be called in upcoming episodes, unless there was something I missed in "Something Borrowed" where she said she'd be taking his name. --Brian Olsen (talk) 19:29, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * She says in Something Borrowed that she will be 'Mrs Williams'. The Iceman2288 (talk) 19:38, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, the article should stay here - create a redirect from Gwen Williams if you wish, but the character started as Gwen Cooper, and the article should stay that way (precedent is Carla Espinosa) - I believe that wiki article tend to keep the name which the subject got famous with. -mattbuck (Talk) 15:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure what Wiki policy is (though I'd think the name should be changed), but Carla isn't a precedent. In My Screw Up, she decides she won't change her name after marriage. -212.139.71.73 (talk) 17:12, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Humm, I guess I get confused by all the Nurse Turkletons. Point is, she became notable as Gwen Cooper, and her marriage happened last episode. Let's at least wait until the end of season 2 before we go jumping the gun on any moves. -mattbuck (Talk) 18:07, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

She's in more episodes as "Cooper" so far. It's not a soap opera or Desperate Housewives. A namespace move would be taking us away from a real-world perspective.~ZytheTalk to me! 19:03, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with "TheIceman2288", the article addresses her as Gwen Williams, so surely the title should be renamed Williams, and have a redirect from Cooper instead? QuietusExtraho (talk) 23:27, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I would agree if she started to be credited as Gwen Williams but in From Out of the Rain she is credited as Gwen Cooper. Just a bit of info. LizzieHarrison 10:01, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * And in "Adrift" she gives her name as Gwen Cooper. It's irrelevant anyway, as fiction doesn't have a "present state." The character has been Gwen Cooper for longer than she's been Gwen Williams, if she really has taken the surname at all.~ZytheTalk to me! 13:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * For example, would the Ebenezer Scrooge article describe him as a lovable generous man? No: everyone knows he starts out a miser. Similarly, we had strong consensus to keep Elizabeth Swann named that way, because people know their character as when they start out in fiction, and don't know of plot developments. Alientraveller (talk) 14:56, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that it should keep the title of "Cooper" but maybe the first line should say "Gwen Williams (Nee Cooper)"??? rather than maiden name followed by married name. She does say she'll be taking the name. 84.13.22.0 (talk) 16:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * FYI in the latest Official Torchwood Magazine (#4) it says they originally planned for Gwen to change her name to Williams, but Eve Myles insisted Gwen keep her maiden name as she's an "independent woman" who wouldn't change her name. Gwen didn't really say onscreen she'd be changing her name, she just said she wanted to become "Mrs Williams" - I think it's a stretch to assume that she was being absolutely literal and talking about a name change, rather than her desire to become Rhys' wife. Queer Scout (talk) 02:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you write a source for this for the article? It would be handy, and it has some use in describing Gwen's "independent woman" characterisation.~ZytheTalk to me! 10:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It also appeared in the novel "SkyPoint". Gwen rang Rhys to tell him she was not going to take his name, to which he replied "I know". --Clarrisani (talk) 05:42, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Parents
Don't you think that the article should mention the names of her parents (Geraint and Mary) somewhere. I'd put it in myself but I can't see anywhere it would fit in naturally. Leo (talk) 00:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Useful link
nice mention of Rose and Gwen being the same character type.~ZytheTalk to me! 20:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Image
I would like to ask what image people think should be used - this S1 promotional image or the S2 version. i'm personally partial to S1, as while it is older, I feel she looks like some sort of robot in the s2 one. -mattbuck (Talk) 18:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Personally, I prefer the S1 images for all the characters. I'd rather we returned to them, the lighting and costumes seemed more natural.  Only problem is, can we find a current useable source for those images?  The current S2 images need to be changed anyway, because the source URLs are wrong.     Paul    730  20:28, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Why do we need a current usable source? We have the images on file, they were uploaded over, certainly in this image's case. We just need to say they're Torchwood publicity stills from the BBC, and used under fair use. -mattbuck (Talk) 22:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not an image expert, but I think if the source change their image (ie, the BBC updates their pictures) we need to change ours or find a new source, because we need to be able to prove where the image came from.    Paul    730  13:05, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not an expert on fair use either, but the image would be fair use no matter what internet source. The only source that matters is "Torchwood Season 1 publicity still" by the BBC. -mattbuck (Talk) 15:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

To the overhauling editor(s)
You've done a great job. This article is really an example of how fictional character articles should look. There are a few typos here and there (and issues where things are italicized or not italicized when they should/n't be), but besides that, this is an exemplary article and it shows what can be done with a few academic sources, some production commentary, a lot of popular criticism, and the steady hand to sew them all together. Well done.Zythe (talk) 23:17, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Tense uniformity
Be careful about tense uniformity. If one of the sentences in a particular paragraph says a particular scholar or writer "commented" about something, then everything in that paragraph should be in past tense. It follows that if a particular paragraph is in past tense, also the whole subsection should be, as well. &mdash; Cirt (talk) 04:44, 5 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your edits. I've looked through them all and agree with what you've done. I'll note the point about tense uniformity for future reference. I think it sits well at the moment with past tense used for the first subsection about the character's concept - i.e purpose of character and present tense for how she is characterised throughout the series. I assume that the series of copyedits aren't enough to make you a significant contributor and preclude a future good article review? Thanks again for your time on this article. &mdash; Eshlare (talk) 19:22, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Heh, no, I'm doing the copyediting while reading through the article for GA Review at the same time. &mdash; Cirt (talk) 21:29, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Audience surrogate
The term 'audience surrogate' needs to be explained early in the article. Maybe it needs a new WP article of its own? --Greenmaven (talk) 00:50, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

It is discussed in an indirect way, I think, at the start of the section 'Concept and creation' (FYI). This could expanded and elaborated in its own WP article, especially if it is a widely recogized concept.

Ooops! it already exists! Audience surrogate Regards --Greenmaven (talk) 01:09, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

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